Is the Milky Way harboring dozens of intelligent civilizations?

[COLGeek]

The short answer is, the statistically impossible chain of events that would be required to form life, even if you used every atom in the universe and had them recombine a trillion times a second, would require trillions of years to accidentally come up with the right combination for life. Using only those elements and atoms available on a planet, would require infinitely longer. It is an impossibility. The fact there is life on earth is the result of intelligent design, not random recombinations of atoms. The bottom line is, there is no life, much less intelligent life, anywhere in the entire universe, other than earth. Sometimes I wonder if there is actually intelligent life on Earth.

That is a rather arrogant position to take and more of a belief than a fact. Someday, I am sure humanity will know for certain whether we are alone in the universe.

 

[foxpup]

If the Earth had an identical twin with identical history on the other side of the galaxy we would both be dipping our toes into space getting ready for a real swim very soon. Astronomically and geologically, it has been no time since we started as a civilization and we will likely be almost instantaneously setting off with traveling between the stars. Life is EXTREMELY invasive, intelligent life doubly. At a conservative rate of 1/10th the speed of light we would be able to meet our twins ~500,000 years from now if they existed. Now if they didn't exist we would have occupied the galaxy in a million years and seized all the resources effectively preventing any other intelligent life form arising. ....So the only way THIS galaxy could have more than one kind of intelligent life would be for their development to be nearly simultaneous which would be extremely unlikely. Because of all this I am confident that we are alone in this galaxy unless there is something weird going on where we are living in some kind of incubator for civilizations, managed by some overlooking society. Not likely. As for other galaxies, they could each be inhabited for the most part and individually. Galaxies may likely be near 1-to-1 containers for intelligent life with civilizations colliding/merging when galaxies collide.

 

[FrankT]

The short answer is, the statistically impossible chain of events that would be required to form life, even if you used every atom in the universe and had them recombine a trillion times a second, would require trillions of years to accidentally come up with the right combination for life. Using only those elements and atoms available on a planet, would require infinitely longer. It is an impossibility. The fact there is life on earth is the result of intelligent design, not random recombinations of atoms. The bottom line is, there is no life, much less intelligent life, anywhere in the entire universe, other than earth. Sometimes I wonder if there is actually intelligent life on Earth.

Darwin's Evolutionary Theory is really hard to beat. Adaptations and survival of the fittest by natural selection is an almost perfect argument. Let's assume the stories of Genesis is true for one moment, but can we deny natural selection and survival of the fittest had never happened after Genesis? You must be thinking I am anti-creation, but wait. I have been baffled by the perfection of Darwin's The Origin of Species for many years. Until one day I turned my interest from Ecology to Physics. Then it hit me Evolutionary Theory does not apply there. Particles do not compete for Energy. In fact the particle possessing the most energy lives the shortest life span. They have the most tendency to lose energy. The most stable state of matter is not in a bowl of hot soup. This is contrary to Evolutionary Theory where the strongest prevails. Well of course one may say energy evolves into matter from Time 0 to roughly 380,000 years after Big Bang, when all the different forces are pretty much settled into their own place of the Universe. But there was not any competition of resources or adaptations. The transition from energy to matter is coming and going. Appearing and disappearing. There is no time for energy to try out as a matter then die out, and then come back to exist for longer next time around because energy has "adapted". Matter is either there or not there. Same goes for energy. After realizing that, now, may be, just may be, Genesis is talking in Physics terms, not Biology. Either we can explain the current Laws of Physics were evolved from some other set of Laws, or they were created, somehow.

 

[foxpup]

That is a rather arrogant position to take and more of a belief than a fact. Someday, I am sure humanity will know for certain whether we are alone in the universe.

"I am sure humanity will know for certain whether we are alone in the universe." We will only know for certain if we are alone in the universe if there actually IS life out there and we encounter it. Until then we will be clueless for the most part. Human hubris is unlimited. Many actually think they can come to understand EVERYTHING!! I don't remember that promise being present in the EULA when my life began. A little humility would do us good.

Also there is life "out there" already even though it may (or may not) be out among the stars or anywhere else in space. Clearly the universe exists. There is SUBSTANCE and that substance has FORM. There are also entities here that give matters PURPOSE. These three qualities can not come out of no-where. They need do be authored from outside the universe. People can argue all they want about how such matters are structured but these fundamentals are incontrovertable if anyone has any faith in causation, a fundamental pillar of science.

 

[COLGeek]

"I am sure humanity will know for certain whether we are alone in the universe." We will only know for certain if we are alone in the universe if there actually IS life out there and we encounter it. Until then we will be clueless for the most part. Human hubris is unlimited. Many actually think they can come to understand EVERYTHING!! I don't remember that promise being present in the EULA when my life began. A little humility would do us good.

Also there is life "out there" already even though it may (or may not) be out among the stars or anywhere else in space. Clearly the universe exists. There is SUBSTANCE and that substance has FORM. There are also entities here that give matters PURPOSE. These three qualities can not come out of no-where. They need do be authored from outside the universe. People can argue all they want about how such matters are structured but these fundamentals are incontrovertible if anyone has any faith in causation, a fundamental pillar of science.

This is an argument for intelligent design. I get it and you are entitled to believe such.

I do not. I prefer to stick to the facts and science (as we understand them) and not the faith of the matter.

Incontrovertible is a strong word that can certainly be disputed in this discussion. The term does not apply in this case because we lack the true knowledge to apply it here.

 

[COLGeek]

If the Earth had an identical twin with identical history on the other side of the galaxy we would both be dipping our toes into space getting ready for a real swim very soon. Astronomically and geologically, it has been no time since we started as a civilization and we will likely be almost instantaneously setting off with traveling between the stars. Life is EXTREMELY invasive, intelligent life doubly. At a conservative rate of 1/10th the speed of light we would be able to meet our twins ~500,000 years from now if they existed. Now if they didn't exist we would have occupied the galaxy in a million years and seized all the resources effectively preventing any other intelligent life form arising. ....So the only way THIS galaxy could have more than one kind of intelligent life would be for their development to be nearly simultaneous which would be extremely unlikely. Because of all this I am confident that we are alone in this galaxy unless there is something weird going on where we are living in some kind of incubator for civilizations, managed by some overlooking society. Not likely. As for other galaxies, they could each be inhabited for the most part and individually. Galaxies may likely be near 1-to-1 containers for intelligent life with civilizations colliding/merging when galaxies collide.

So among the billions of galaxies there are billions of worlds with intelligent life?

Why only 1 to 1, given the enormity of even a single galaxy?

 

[Wolfern]

That is a rather arrogant position to take and more of a belief than a fact. Someday, I am sure humanity will know for certain whether we are alone in the universe.

Statistical analysis is not arrogant. Facts are facts. The chances of "evolution" of life is absurdly impossible. No matter how much one might believe it could happen, it is totally, statistically, impossible. We cannot ignore the science or math.

 

[COLGeek]

Statistical analysis is not arrogant. Facts are facts. The chances of "evolution" of life is absurdly impossible. No matter how much one might believe it could happen, it is totally, statistically, impossible. We cannot ignore the science or math.

Not to be argumentative, but if that were true, we wouldn't be here. Obviously conditions (and time) matter, but "impossible" simply does not apply in this regard.

Arrogance in terms of assuming we are the only forms of (intelligent) life.

 

[Wolfern]

Not to be argumentative, but if that were true, we wouldn't be here. Obviously conditions (and time) matter, but "impossible" simply does not apply in this regard.

You are correct. There obviously had to have been a "cause", because statistically it is "impossible." Read "Evolution, a Theory in Crisis, but Michael Denton, a secular scientist who does not believe in God, but articulates the reasons evolution could not have happened.

 

[COLGeek]

This?

Evolution: A Theory in Crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I appreciate the offer, but I'll pass. Surely you base your opinions on more than this single source.

 

[Wolfern]

This?

Evolution: A Theory in Crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I appreciate the offer, but I'll pass. Surely you base your opinions on more than this single source.

If I listed all my sources, it would in itself be a book. Simple solution, check out Institute for Creation Research, Answers in Genesis, Etc. There are many scientists who write about and clarify what actual beginning looks like.

 

[foxpup]

This is an argument for intelligent design. I get it and you are entitled to believe such.

I do not. I prefer to stick to the facts and science (as we understand them) and not the faith of the matter.

Incontrovertible is a strong word that can certainly be disputed in this discussion. The term does not apply in this case because we lack the true knowledge to apply it here.

So where do YOU think the substance, form, and purpose comes from in this universe. Provide a simpler more applicable explanation than mine. Until you do I apply Occam's razor and will stick with mine over all others. BTW "Intelligent Design" as you call it may not be 100% scientific but it doesn't have to be since not 100% of all events can be scientifically explained, like the origin of substance, form, and purpose in this universe. Science is an excellent tool, but like the metric set of sockets in my toolbox, it isn't useful in ALL contexts.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Yep it's a big Galaxy with 100s of billions of stars.
But lets not forget that 95% of them are in supernova country and 95% of the remaining stars are wrong type or flare monsters.

The wispy arms of the galaxy look like the only place advanced life can exist long term.

Maybe 10 million correct stars.
1 in 100 have an earthlike planet in the right place.
1 in 100 have a big moon
1 in 100 start life ASAP before it becomes a Venus sort of world.
1 in 100 have the correct amount of water from freak deliveries, metal content and silicon.
1 in 100 have just right amount of atmosphere, not to much or little.
1 in 100 have land/water mix so life can have a place to walk around.
Then the 1 in million chance for intelligent life and all it's freak events and bottlenecks to get past.

We could be it for many many Galaxies or even alone in the entire universe.
Simple life on every place possible if life is a common thing but intelligent life so freakish as to be near impossible.

JMO

 

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