Manned Mission to Another Star

[brellis]

A thought just struck me. Suppose we send an unmanned spacecraft into interstellar space bound for an earthlike planet. Of course, all issues regarding power, survival for the craft, mining capabilities are solved and the craft is capable of preparing a [contained] habitat for humans.<br /><br />What if we send along some frozen human embryos? When a good site is found, mined, and a little homey habitat has been built, the embryos are unfrozen and some little babies are hatched into existence.<br /><br />If cloning is possible, and I want to be cloned and put on that spaceship, would I be mad at myself a thousand years from now? Would something like this be the most feasible way to send humans to another star system? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[christine16]

interesting, but how and then?

 

[qso1]

Too early to know whats going to be possible and all that you mentioned is possible unless demonstrated to be otherwise. Were a long way from sending anything off to the stars. The first unmanned probes are probably going to simply study whatever planets may be found at the destination star. Gradually we would build up to human missions and if probes become as capable as you mention then its certainly possible for the craft to prepare a habitat for humans on a distant world.<br /><br />As for being mad a thousand years later, no way to know that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[brellis]

I hadn't considered the ethical aspect of cloning from the view point of the clone itself. Sadly, the only fictional example I can think of is the Arnold Schwarzenegger character in - I forget the movie. The only frozen-into-the-future example is the movie with Sly Stallone and Wesley Snipes, another forgettable title. Anyway, this group of 'thespians' don't really expand one's frontiers of imagination <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />What if a spaceship contained little frozen eggs and sperm belonging to all humans, paired off by either donor relationships or DNA matching, etc. Imagine a society of millions of humans ready to be stem-celled upon completion of their new habitat near another star, or in orbit around Mars/Europa. What if the spaceship is a black monolith? OH YEAH! Now we've got an example! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[captainhomer]

Finding an uninhabited earth-like planet, building the sub-light craft, then giving it time to travel all adds up to like 100-200 years of effort. Waiting for a real starship is a safer bet.

 

[qso1]

brellis:<br />What if a spaceship contained little frozen eggs and sperm belonging to all humans,<br /><br />Me:<br />Very different society than what were accustomed to but certainly possible. Even the movies you referred to bring up some good points along the lines of social consequences. I don't recall the Swarzenegger movie titla but the Stallone/Snipes movie was "Demolition man" and I only recall it because of Sandra Bullock, Lol.<br /><br />If we did send humans to other stars in the way you described, at least the boredom of the journey would be eliminated and one can only imagine what it would be like to grow up on another world without really knowing about how you got there till your old enough to understand the history books (Or whatever media) so to speak. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[thinice]

You'll need someone from whom you will learn to speak and read. These are not inborn capabilities.

 

[qso1]

Thats true, you bring up an excellent point. But one would hopefully assume that if this crew of embryos is being sent out in an automated nanny ship if you will, that the nanny ship will have some kind of automated teaching capability. If not, or if that capability is inadequate...humans capable of teachin the embryonic crew will have to be accomodated. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Cryogenics is floated in market in the nam e of science.This thread is that.

 

[qso1]

Current cryonics is not specifically addressed but cryonics as a future possibility is being discussed here at the moment because it is a distant possibility technology wise. Personally, I don't think we will have to resort to cryonics except for the accelleration to light speed which could take months even at 3 Gs and decelleration at the destination.<br /><br />Amost any discussion concerning human journeys to distant star systems will involve hypothetical ideas that because they are so far off, cannot be totally scientific. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[tohaki]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Thats true, you bring up an excellent point. But one would hopefully assume that if this crew of embryos is being sent out in an automated nanny ship if you will, that the nanny ship will have some kind of automated teaching capability.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>Like in <i>Superman: The Movie</i>.

 

[llivinglarge]

Any Proxima Centuri probe technology is at least 50 years away...

 

[vogon13]

~40 actually.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">" Unless you're talking about some kind of sci-fi situation"</font><br /><br />The 'missing uterus' is the only part of this concept you feel requires sci-fi capabilities? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[docm]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><b><i>kpsting said:<br /><br />you need an uterus (a living woman) to grow an embryo into a child. Unless you're talking about some kind of sci-fi situation</i></b><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>Careful what you term "sci-fi". It's called "ectogenisis", and while it is <i>highly</i> controversial it also appears to be very possible.<br /><br />In 2002 Dr. Hung-Ching Liu of Cornell engineered an artificial "uterus" by growing cultured human endometrial cells in a collagen scaffold shaped like a uterus. The "uterus" was fed nutrients & hormones and eventually the scaffold dissolved, as expected. <br /><br />Next some embryos left over from an in-vitro fertilization (IVF) program were introduced. <i><b>They implanted and developed normally for the duration of the experiment</b></i>, which was halted after six days in accordance with U.S. law.<br /><br />Collagen scaffolds like this are an accepted shaping technique used in tissue engineering research. They've been used to shape engineered ears, noses, bladders (which by the way have been used in transplants) and other parts.<br /><br />Yoshinori Kuwabara of Juntendo University, Japan conducted his experiments on goats. Fetuses were removed from their mothers and placed in plastic tanks filled with amniotic fluid & their umbilical cords connected to filtering systems that removed waste and supplied nutrients. The fetuses were kept alive for 10 days to 3 weeks. <br /><br />Aldous Huxley, here we come <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[brandbll]

I was reading something the other day about a study on hibernation and Bears. It was a while ago so i don't remember all of it, but it talked about how they discovered how to trigger hibernation in the brain and they think that every animal has the capability of doing this. I'll have to look for it online, because i don't remember the details. But if they figured out how to trigger this in humans there is no telling how long you could hibernate for. Even if it were for 6 months at a time it would be helpful, especially on trips to Mars. Altough i'm not sure if that mights screw with all your muscles and how well they function afterwards. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="3">You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard!</font></p> </div>

 

[docm]

I discussed induced hibernation advances in the "I want a space armada..." thread. Rather than post a huge link I'll quote it here;<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Cryonics in the sense of freezing a body solid is not feasable, but other methods are coming to bear.<br /><br />One interesting bit of recent research shows that mice placed in an atmosphere with H2S (hydrogen sulfide; the rotten egg smell) at a level of 80ppm and simultaneously lowering the O2 level drastically allowed the body core temperature to be lowered to just 11°C, reducing O2 use by 10x.<br /><br />H2S inhibits one of the enzymes in the electron transport chain, slowing down cell respiration to the point of near stasis. Take away the H2S, restore the O2 & heat and the little critters wake up and do their mouse thing again.<br /><br />Very interesting since mice do not normally hibernate, and mice are a very good analog for what should work in humans.<br /><br />With the advent of synthetic blood substitutes/supplements (some with the ability to carry 50x the O2 content of haemoglobin) we may be in the midst of a revolution in suspended animation.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Other species (ex: frogs) flood their cells with glucose to protect them during actual freezing. They freeze solid but their cells don't burst as other species do. Thaw 'em out and off they go. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[scottb50]

According to the latest National Geographics there are five stars within 50 light years that are similar to the Sun in age, mass composition and location. The nearest is beta CVn at 27.2 light years.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[trailrider]

I thought Peter and Wendy and her brothers solved this problem a long time ago! Second star on the right and straight on 'til morning!<br /><br />Just watch out for Capt. Hook and the crocodile. (Sounds like a croc anyhow!)<br /><br />Ad LUNA! Ad Ares! Then, Ad Astra!

 

[scottb50]

Though I doubt it would be worth the trip. Talk about a bad neighborhood! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[qso1]

brandbll:<br />Even if it were for 6 months at a time it would be helpful, especially on trips to Mars. Altough i'm not sure if that mights screw with all your muscles and how well they function afterwards.<br /><br />Me:<br />That would definetely be a problem for any near term application of hibernation technology. As it is, muscular degeneration. even bone loss is a major concern for crews in weightless environments for 3 to 6 months or longer.<br /><br />But considering human journeys to the stars are probably still at least 150 years off...hibernation research might be at the appropriate level for application. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[rocketman5000]

I am not an expert in hibernation or human biology, but wouldn't hibernation slow muscle and bone loss over being concious and not exercising? Hibernation by defination slows the metabolism and should therefore slow the rate of loss correct?

 

[docm]

Yes, definitely. All body processes slow down including those functions related to respiration & circulation, which in turn slow demineralization and muscle loss. Even higher order brain function ceases or comes darned close to it. <br /><br />The situation is very similar to a person who has drowned in an icy pond. Hypothermia sets in, the blood in the extremities moves to the core and the body shuts down to provide as much O2 to the brain as possible (mammalian dive reflex). The new technique makes this more efficient by shutting down metabolism at the cellular level, at least in mice. We'll see about humans.<br /><br />Many people have been revived after as long as an hour thanks to the dive reflex. Normally they'd be dead in 5 minutes or less.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[qso1]

I'm no expert in that field either but common sense tells me that if humans have problems coming back from six month or longer flights in which they were active...then it makes sense to me that hibernation for six months would be even worse on bones, muscle, etc.<br /><br />Kind of like bed ridden patients who loose a good deal of muscle mass when confined to beds for extended periods. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[brellis]

When I was struck by this notion in the first place, many ethical questions came to mind immediately.<br /><br />Millions of children are currently being raised by TV's and PC's. How far away is a nanny-bot? I'd want mine to be a blend of the finest characteristics of Pam Anderson and Jodie Foster <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>