NASA'S NEW MISSION: BEFRIEND MUSLIM WORLD

[Valcan]

I realize this is by it's very nature a political topic, but let's try and stick to the space aspects as best we can, lest we have to split off part into a thread in the politics forum.

TIA,

MW

I understand what your saying but what i said still is true. ANY decision he makes is now a political one which means it will be fought over like a peice of meat by stray dogs (or dirty money by politicans )

 

[rockett]

Fire him. Thats it thats all to do.

He's just following orders, like the good soldier he is. The problem is not Bolden.

The mission of Nasa is to Support the expanison of the United States and threw it our allies into space and advance science and technology. Its not a political arm of the democratic party or of ANY PARTY. Bolden has crossed the line into a cheerleader for one side. This adversly affects Nasa because it now makes every decision he makes a POLITICAL decision.

That has been obvious from the beginning. If you have watched ANY of the Congressional hearing testimony he has given, he often refers to "his boss" (the President), and looks decidedly uncomfortable at times with his "orders", as if he knows it's a bad idea.

Here's a quote to that tells me he is obeying orders "from above":

"When I became the NASA administrator -- or before I became the NASA administrator -- he charged me with three things. One was he wanted me to help re-inspire children to want to get into science and math, he wanted me to expand our international relationships, and third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science ... and math and engineering," Bolden said in the interview.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/05/nasa-chief-frontier-better-relations-muslims/

 

[rockett]

I realize this is by it's very nature a political topic, but let's try and stick to the space aspects as best we can, lest we have to split off part into a thread in the politics forum.

TIA,

MW

Good point Wayne. I'm trying to think how we can do that. I'm afraid the bleedover of politics into space exploration caused by policies like this has blurred the lines a bit. Any suggestions?

 

[nimbus]

The problem definitely is in no small part Bolden. He's a terrible spokesman.

 

[rockett]

The problem definitely is in no small part Bolden. He's a terrible spokesman.

He is just a parrot. Not his fault if the Administration can't articulate NASA policy, or separate politics from space exploration...

 

[MeteorWayne]

I realize this is by it's very nature a political topic, but let's try and stick to the space aspects as best we can, lest we have to split off part into a thread in the politics forum.

TIA,

MW

Good point Wayne. I'm trying to think how we can do that. I'm afraid the bleedover of politics into space exploration caused by policies like this has blurred the lines a bit. Any suggestions?

Unfortunately, no. Just wanted to ask posters to keep on the space aspects, and not let it turn into a political free for all.

 

[tanstaafl76]

Good point Wayne. I'm trying to think how we can do that. I'm afraid the bleedover of politics into space exploration caused by policies like this has blurred the lines a bit. Any suggestions?

That's true, but that's the problem with the entire statement isn't it? I think we can keep it confined to a discussion of what NASA should or should not be doing without getting into a political discussion of Obama or his other policies.

The central point here is that NASA should remain as apolitical as it can and concentrate on a scientific mission of exploration, even if it's impossible to keep politics out of it completely (which of course it is).

It is one thing to say NASA should work with scientists from other countries interested in cooperating with us for the purpose of space exploration. It is quite another to task our space agency with "appealing to the Muslim world," much of which hates our guts, and if they could get into space we are the last ones they would want to go there with. I mean, it's absurd on its face. We should neither expect or require our rocket scientists to be cultural diplomats. And frankly it's such an absurd request, I don't think they are expected to perform that task with any real measure of responsibility.

So assuming that it was a rhetorical mission, and not an actual one, what does that mean NASA's role has become that its administrator is asked to make such absurd statements? Are they the public relations arm of the US government, harmless happy engineers that occasionally shoot things into space and make friends with others? A feel-good sideshow that isn't really taken seriously for what they are supposed to be? It certainly suggests that the powers that be do not see NASA making very valuable scientific discoveries if their "foremost" responsibility is now cultural diplomacy. It's like hiring a plumber to be your lawyer.

How does this fit in SB&T ? I would suggest Free Space or Politics.

And next time, please some other source than fox. There are other, really.

How does it not? Forum description starts, "the business and politics of space, NASA..."

The source is irrelevant, it's Boldens quote that is the point. Unless the quote is inaccurate, the source is fine, whether you like their TV channel or not.

 

[nimbus]

Was it absurd for NASA to project soft power back in commie time?

 

[rockett]

...We should neither expect or require our rocket scientists to be cultural diplomats. And frankly it's such an absurd request, I don't think they are expected to perform that task with any real measure of responsibility.

So assuming that it was a rhetorical mission, and not an actual one, what does that mean NASA's role has become that its administrator is asked to make such absurd statements? Are they the public relations arm of the US government, harmless happy engineers that occasionally shoot things into space and make friends with others? A feel-good sideshow that isn't really taken seriously for what they are supposed to be? It certainly suggests that the powers that be do not see NASA making very valuable scientific discoveries if their "foremost" responsibility is now cultural diplomacy. It's like hiring a plumber to be your lawyer...

No kidding. If this (and previous gaffes) is any example, they don't make very good diplomats. Muzzle them before they start WWW III with some ill advised statement...

 

[nimbus]

Maybe Bolden's taken it upon himself to persevere as spokesman in spite of himself.

 

[rcsplinters]

Good point Wayne. I'm trying to think how we can do that. I'm afraid the bleedover of politics into space exploration caused by policies like this has blurred the lines a bit. Any suggestions?

So assuming that it was a rhetorical mission, and not an actual one, what does that mean NASA's role has become that its administrator is asked to make such absurd statements? Are they the public relations arm of the US government, harmless happy engineers that occasionally shoot things into space and make friends with others? A feel-good sideshow that isn't really taken seriously for what they are supposed to be? It certainly suggests that the powers that be do not see NASA making very valuable scientific discoveries if their "foremost" responsibility is now cultural diplomacy. It's like hiring a plumber to be your lawyer.[/quote]

Truly. I've been following NASA since the 60's. What we've witnessed with Bolden's remarks seems totally without precedent and certainly outside my experience. If this is truly the mission of NASA, then I presume the North Korean's are next or perhaps they should cure cancer and feed the starving before launching another mission. Its the administrator of NASA and very likely his boss that have equated the folly of faux mission politics and the science of spaceflight, not the clientele of this forum. If this is truly the mission of NASA, then I have to question the wisdom of my tax dollars being wasted in this fashion. Perhaps their funding would be better utilized by the State Department where they supposedly have expertise in this area.

Rocket scientists for rockets and diplomats for diplomacy? Apparently not in the bizzare world of Obama science.

 

[rockett]

Was it absurd for NASA to project soft power back in commie time?

This is an entirely different world than back then. In the cold war the various sides stayed within their borders excepting spies, of course), and the players were clearly defined. It was country to country. The present circumstances are a very fluid situation that bleeds across multiple countries. It is a LOT harder to sort out the "bad guys". We are in a shooting war with radical elements of this particular religeous/ethnic group (in case you hadn't noticed). People here in the US have died at their hands, too.

It is perfectly fine for NASA to ask for, and encourage international cooperation, quite different to single out a specific group.

Finally to task a peace mission to the NASA Director is very inappopriate, he has proven time and again his lack of diplomatic skills (and commented on that himself).

 

[rockett]

Truly. I've been following NASA since the 60's. What we've witnessed with Bolden's remarks seems totally without precedent and certainly outside my experience. If this is truly the mission of NASA, then I presume the North Korean's are next or perhaps they should cure cancer and feed the starving before launching another mission. Its the administrator of NASA and very likely his boss that have equated the folly of faux mission politics and the science of spaceflight, not the clientele of this forum. If this is truly the mission of NASA, then I have to question the wisdom of my tax dollars being wasted in this fashion. Perhaps their funding would be better utilized by the State Department where they supposedly have expertise in this area.

Rocket scientists for rockets and diplomats for diplomacy? Apparently not in the bizzare world of Obama science.

Good points 'splinters! Maybe NASA should take over Social Security and Welfare too! :lol:

 

[believer_since_1956]

I can't understand how our leadership ignores history. Look at Steel, Consumer Electronics, Semiconductor, Automotive, Ship Building, and probably a few more industries I missed. If you don't strive to be the best your "friends" will soon replace you. Does our nation want to exist as a leader morally and industrially or take the road of Greece, Roman, Persia, Spain, France. Does the desire to be the best have no meaning anymore? "We can't go back to the Moon on our own anymore" this is a Retire Marine talking? Everyone who was in the Corp that his Ex-Army Officer ever met would never talk like that. My advice to our leadership if they would listen would be to Man-Up. As a foot note I have written the entire Senate Sub Committee on Space and Science they have not bothered to answer my letters.

 

[Valcan]

I can't understand how our leadership ignores history. Look at Steel, Consumer Electronics, Semiconductor, Automotive, Ship Building, and probably a few more industries I missed. If you don't strive to be the best your "friends" will soon replace you. Does our nation want to exist as a leader morally and industrially or take the road of Greece, Roman, Persia, Spain, France. Does the desire to be the best have no meaning anymore? "We can't go back to the Moon on our own anymore" this is a Retire Marine talking? Everyone who was in the Corp that his Ex-Army Officer ever met would never talk like that. My advice to our leadership if they would listen would be to Man-Up. As a foot note I have written the entire Senate Sub Committee on Space and Science they have not bothered to answer my letters.

No, no,no thats not how it is anymore. America is nothing special. We haven't been nor shall we ever be special we just stole everything from others.

"We cant go on our own anymore" translates to either appease world opinion-definding ourselves, our veiws on our rights etc-This is the excuse for not funding Nasa the way it should we have more votes to buy and you arent enough of a voting block to matter.

 

[rockett]

No, no,no thats not how it is anymore. America is nothing special. We haven't been nor shall we ever be special we just stole everything from others.

"We cant go on our own anymore" translates to either appease world opinion-definding ourselves, our veiws on our rights etc-This is the excuse for not funding Nasa the way it should we have more votes to buy and you arent enough of a voting block to matter.

We really did have a lot of "invented here" tech that made us very special. The microchip (TI) and personal computers (many developers) just to name a couple. We just ceded our leadership a long time ago, and are selling off more everyday (what we are not giving away to appease people for real or imagined slights).

Actually what "We cant go on our own anymore" translates to is:
- We can't do it with our current social agendas
- We can't do it fighting 2 wars (Iraq 782 B, Afghanistan 262 B)
- We can't do it chasing our foolish illusions that we can solve the whole world's problems
- We can't do it while investing almost a trillion dollars to prop up companies mistakes and bad choices while their execs continue to get multi million dollar bonuses

For just a minute, think what kind of a space program we could have with a small fraction of that money.

But those are what we vote for...

 

[tanstaafl76]

For just a minute, think what kind of a space program we could have with a small fraction of that money.

Yeah, then we could afford to make friends with the Hindu world and the Buddhist world, too!

 

[Valcan]

.

We really did have a lot of "invented here" tech that made us very special. The microchip (TI) and personal computers (many developers) just to name a couple. We just ceded our leadership a long time ago, and are selling off more everyday (what we are not giving away to appease people for real or imagined slights).

Actually what "We cant go on our own anymore" translates to is:
- We can't do it with our current social agendas
- We can't do it fighting 2 wars (Iraq 782 B, Afghanistan 262 B)
- We can't do it chasing our foolish illusions that we can solve the whole world's problems
- We can't do it while investing almost a trillion dollars to prop up companies mistakes and bad choices while their execs continue to get multi million dollar bonuses

For just a minute, think what kind of a space program we could have with a small fraction of that money.

But those are what we vote for...

This really needs to be taken to Politics sense sadly thought it affects all of Nasa it cant be discussed at ALL without politics.

Yes we cant do it fighting 2 wars. One of those wars will soon (next 5 to 6 yrs) probably be little more than a small american presence while iraqis do all the fighting. We have already withdrawn from the major cities. As long as no one in this government gets in the way and screws it up and the iraqi government dosent the Iraqi army is quit capable of controlling its country and taking back the streets from jihadist.

Afghanistan is a different story. From day 1 it has been more of a political war. We have far more partners there than iraq and many of those partners fight under ROE's that make ours look like viking law.

Add to that afghanistan is a VERY lose confederation of tribes and peoples and you have a very complicated enviroment. AQ and the taliban get fighters from all across the world including from many western nations with populations of muslims (the british have reported hearing men shouting with accents from london and other places-aint multiculturalism and "tough' immigration laws grand?). In many cases the arabs especialy dont seem to get along with the locals its a mess made worse by the on again off again and political statments-easy to missinterperate statements like "will begin leaving by 2011" when you mean you will begin a draw down from surge strength IF the situation on the ground allows it.

Its ironic that one of the biggest problem with afghanistan is the same with Nasa. Congress and the president cant make up there mind and stay made up on what they want to do.

But we MUST win it. Afghanistan must have a government able to protect its people and stop the taliban and other terrorist organizations from coming back. But we have to stop messing around and get serious about it. Now that iraq has wound down there is no excuse to not concentrate on astan.

---------------------------------
Anyways the problem people seem to be ignoring when they say "we cant be the worlds police!!!" is

A) We have alot of treaties and friends that our power protects from others.

B) our economy would collapse if you cut off sea traffic.

C) More conflicts in the world create more danger and make investors more nervous and that drives up oil and other commodities.

D) We already tried that. We appeased and ignored hitler till he had half of europe and ALOT of jewish people. He was defeated but it cost alot of lives and i doubt the jews atleast will ever forget that or believe the UN will "handle it". The UN couldnt handle getting a keg tapped at a kegger....

 

[MiamiBeach]

How does this fit in SB&T ? I would suggest Free Space or Politics.

And next time, please some other source than fox. There are other, really.

So, where has the "mainstream media" been? FOX was first and so far the only media to report on it and talk about it. I'll take FOX News over any other media by far! Even Space.com just got around to it today after several days of this being in the news.

When Bolden was first installed by Obama he mentioned NASA would take a more "Earth sciences" direction(ie...enviromentalist wacko man made global warming direction), and now this amoung others. The one thing government should do besides national security and the safety of its citizens, Obama cant seem to come around to. He can spend trillions on social programs, unions and political curruption but not 1 billion extra for NASA. We cant finish a project that we have already spent 6 billion on...love it or hate it, but dont you think we should at least complete Constellation after all that time and money? I like the idea of private companies taking us to Earth orbit and beyond, but to have a gap in transporting Americans to space and to pay the Russians instead is crazy!

2012 elections cant come soon enough!

 

[rockett]

As for the correct category for this thread, I'm afraid it is ONLY here because the current Administration is blurring the lines between NASA's mission, and politics.

Loved this quote from the Space.com article:

On Fox News Channel, commentator Charles Krauthammer called Bolden's comments "a new height of fatuousness. NASA was established to get America into space and to keep us there. This idea of 'to feel good about your past scientific achievements' is the worst kind of group therapy, psycho-babble, imperial condescension and adolescent diplomacy. If I didn't know that Obama had told him this, I'd demand the firing of Charles Bolden."
http://www.space.com/news/nasa-chief-muslim-remarks-controversy-ft-100707.html

Can't say I really disagree...

 

[rockett]

More vids on the Bolden's remarks...

Lively Discussion on NASA's Muslim Outreach (7.6.10)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl4TmKZFxwI[/youtube]

Obama Forces NASA to Engage Muslims (7.6.10)
(interview with Lou Dobbs founder -Space.com)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY2qQ1feRiw[/youtube]

Brit Hume on Obama's NASA mission to Muslims (and White House defense of them)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWn1fAS8ZF0[/youtube]

 

[EarthlingX]

Yea, , nihil nuovo sub solem ..

White skinned under sun-tanned blue eyed blonde disgusted over attempt to approach Muslim world, after all the crap flying during Dubya .. Discussion interruptions, drawing conclusions on partial information, or only conjectures, yada, yada .. I go watch Comedy Central a bit later, probably better information ..

NASA administrator, after meetings with all of the various partners, collaborators, whatever, after a couple of various conferences, where most of the space entities were present, goes personally to discuss NASA plans, and perhaps potential cooperation, with Muslim countries, and there is fire in the house.
What do they have to offer ? I don't know, do you ? Perhaps that's why he was there ..
You have noticed Muslims in USA, right ? They are not contributing to anything ? Why do stars have such strange names ?
Arabs held the light during Europe's dark ages, brought Romantics, troubadours to the savage scene of the mediaeval Europe, just from the top of the head.

It seems you like that bone though, enjoy, ...

 

[rockett]

Yea, , nihil nuovo sub solem ..

Sorry, my Latin is a bit rusty, "always wear underwear"? :?

White skinned under sun-tanned blue eyed blonde disgusted over attempt to approach Muslim world, after all the crap flying during Dubya .. Discussion interruptions, drawing conclusions on partial information, or only conjectures, yada, yada .. I go watch Comedy Central a bit later, probably better information ..

Actually, I find the whole thing funnier than Comedy Central :lol:

 

[EarthlingX]

Yea, , nihil nuovo sub solem ..

Sorry, my Latin is a bit rusty, "always wear underwear"? :?

Nothing new under (the) Sun ..

White skinned under sun-tanned blue eyed blonde disgusted over attempt to approach Muslim world, after all the crap flying during Dubya .. Discussion interruptions, drawing conclusions on partial information, or only conjectures, yada, yada .. I go watch Comedy Central a bit later, probably better information ..

Actually, I find the whole thing funnier than Comedy Central :lol:

Yea, there are some cute moments .. :roll:

michellemalkin.com : NASA logo makeovers: New Arabic Sensitivity Administration

but you might find something more to your liking :roll:

 

[moonfie]

What caused me to raise my eyebrow was the part where he said he wanted to make the Muslims "Feel good about their contributions to science, etc." Feel good? Really? What are we, in pre-school? It almost strikes me as more condescending than diplomatic.