NASA'S NEW MISSION: BEFRIEND MUSLIM WORLD

[MiamiBeach]

White skinned under sun-tanned blue eyed blonde disgusted over attempt to approach Muslim world, after all the crap flying during Dubya .. Discussion interruptions, drawing conclusions on partial information, or only conjectures, yada, yada .. I go watch Comedy Central a bit later, probably better information ..

Wow! A bit racist are we??? No one here nor any of the media reports(of which FOX seems to be the only one reporting) brought race into any of this. But, you did. Funny how you leftists are the first to jump to conclusions of some sort of racial motive when there is none and when you have nothing logical to contribute and you know you've lost the argument. First off, Muslim is not a race. Second, reaching out to the Muslim world is not the responsibility of NASA, but is the responsibility of the State Department. Third, and most importantly Bolden mentions this is the FOREMOST mission for NASA.

If Bolden/Obama had stated that NASA would like to see more involvment in space from the Muslim world, that would have been perfectly fine, but to state it as the foremost mission of NASA, a year ago when Bolden mentioned NASA would transform into a more Earth sciences agency shows how far our once proud space program and nation as a whole has fallen, and by the way...I was not happy with the direction under Dubya either...or Clinton, Bush 1, Carter, Ford(notice I skipped Reagan). NASA and its projects and accomplishments should be something our nation can be proud of...every time I see our shuttle blast off, I feel a sense of national pride. What about the US flag burning, America hating, bowing to dictator, re-distributionists? If Dubya had visited a white Christian church and made the same comment, then you would have been up in arms?

I dont care about religion, race, or national origin of any individual...I care about advancing into space, new technology, cooperating with democratic nations or any nation that has something to offer, and national pride in our great accomplishments. NASA and space exploration to me is far more important than social welfare/entitlement spending and any so called "stimulus".

If you care about space science and advancing the human race, wise up.

 

[krash]

How does this fit in SB&T ? I would suggest Free Space or Politics.

And next time, please some other source than fox. There are other, really.

Scared of the truth?

 

[krash]

NASA is responsible for Space Exploration. The State Department is responsible for relations with other countries. Period.

 

[krash]

White skinned under sun-tanned blue eyed blonde disgusted over attempt to approach Muslim world, after all the crap flying during Dubya .. Discussion interruptions, drawing conclusions on partial information, or only conjectures, yada, yada .. I go watch Comedy Central a bit later, probably better information ..

Wow! A bit racist are we??? No one here nor any of the media reports(of which FOX seems to be the only one reporting) brought race into any of this. But, you did. Funny how you leftists are the first to jump to conclusions of some sort of racial motive when there is none and when you have nothing logical to contribute and you know you've lost the argument. First off, Muslim is not a race. Second, reaching out to the Muslim world is not the responsibility of NASA, but is the responsibility of the State Department. Third, and most importantly Bolden mentions this is the FOREMOST mission for NASA.

If Bolden/Obama had stated that NASA would like to see more involvment in space from the Muslim world, that would have been perfectly fine, but to state it as the foremost mission of NASA, a year ago when Bolden mentioned NASA would transform into a more Earth sciences agency shows how far our once proud space program and nation as a whole has fallen, and by the way...I was not happy with the direction under Dubya either...or Clinton, Bush 1, Carter, Ford(notice I skipped Reagan). NASA and its projects and accomplishments should be something our nation can be proud of...every time I see our shuttle blast off, I feel a sense of national pride. What about the US flag burning, America hating, bowing to dictator, re-distributionists? If Dubya had visited a white Christian church and made the same comment, then you would have been up in arms?

I dont care about religion, race, or national origin of any individual...I care about advancing into space, new technology, cooperating with democratic nations or any nation that has something to offer, and national pride in our great accomplishments. NASA and space exploration to me is far more important than social welfare/entitlement spending and any so called "stimulus".

If you care about space science and advancing the human race, wise up.

Exactly.

 

[tanstaafl76]

Third, and most importantly Bolden mentions this is the FOREMOST mission for NASA.

Not only that, but EXPLORING SPACE doesn't even crack the top 3, it's somewhere behind re-inspiring children to want to get into science and math (one has to wonder if he means children in the United States or only those in predominantly Muslim countries), and "expanding our international relationships."

The sad irony is of course that in the past NASA has inspired children to learn about science and prompted other nations to want to coordinate with us because we had lofty goals of exploration and in-space engineering. Inspiration is a natural side effect of truly compelling discovery, not a rhetorical goal that can be achieved with lip service.

White skinned under sun-tanned blue eyed blonde disgusted over attempt to approach Muslim world, after all the crap flying during Dubya ..

Guess you missed the part about trying to not make this political. Keep shilling, buddy.

 

[aphh]

It is a good plan to get muslims involved in the space flight and exploration. They have resources. Communication of the plan to general audience could have been better, though.

He could have simply said something along the lines, "we see untapped resources to advance space program in countries like Saudi-Arabia, Iraq and Qatar". How many of you would have jumped on that? I doubt not very many, but it would have been essentially the same thing.

 

[tanstaafl76]

He could have simply said something along the lines, "we see untapped resources to advance space program in countries like Saudi-Arabia, Iraq and Qatar". How many of you would have jumped on that? I doubt not very many, but it would have been essentially the same thing.

That's not the same thing at all, that's a general statement that gives no priority over NASA's central mission of exploration. It's very different to say the foremost goal of NASA is to appeal to the Muslim world, when obviously it is not, never has been, and never will be.

 

[Valcan]

The overwhelming point is that what he said is wrong (or should be if not then this administration has done more to weaken the US than any administration i can think of.....oh wait theres always the Peanut).

Also threw what he said he has pretty much guarranteed having it brought up and what his first goal is at Nasa.

What is Nasas #1 mission? The advancment of the US as a space power and our place in it.

Not Sucking up to the murderers of thousands of americans. We arent talking about the chinese or the russians of the japanese or anyone like that. We are talking about a group of people whos leaders have declaired war on the american people until we submit as slaves to there will and god. And who should speak for there god...oh look there leaders.

No i would say give china all of our rocket technology (again, thanks clinton) before we cooperate with the saudis or there ilk.

No thats not racism. Thats not islomaphobia. Thats not stupid. Its simply what is in our best interest. Believe me we've been dealing with these people for over 200 years. They havent ever really changed.

 

[rockett]

I have nothing against Muslims in general, but the extremists are the ones that I think have people in an uproar over this. Mixing church and state, repressive cultural norms, and their hatred for our (from their perspective) liberal freedoms, create a very threatening proposition for a lot of people in the US. Their culture appears to be barbaric and alien to us. Add that to the fact that they have even killed US citizens in our country and elsewhere and you have a sceptical audience here, at best. Finally, imagine it was a fully fueled Space Shuttle hit New York (not practical, I know), and it gets very scary indeed. It really is not paranoia if someone is actually trying to kill you, it's healthy self-preservation.

Since we are in what amounts to a world-wide shooting war with these extremists, it must seem like treason to offer such a specific statement of outreach by Bolden, especially since it appears so far outside his span of authority.

In addition I see no apologetic counterpoint statements coming out of Washington over this, to include Israelis, Hindus, Bhudists, or other religeous/ethnic groups either. (how about a Catholic astronaut appointed by the Vatican?)

I also have nothing against international cooperation in space either, and would welcome it, however, those specific statements from Bolden indicate either a very confused sense of responsibilities and authority, or questionable motives of this administration with respect to space exploration.

 

[rockett]

NASA administrator, after meetings with all of the various partners, collaborators, whatever, after a couple of various conferences, where most of the space entities were present, goes personally to discuss NASA plans, and perhaps potential cooperation, with Muslim countries, and there is fire in the house.

And the really funny part is that the Left is doing spin, damage control, and digging foxholes, while the Right is freaking out with air-raid alarms. :lol:

Don't you love America that we are free to do this...

 

[Valcan]

NASA administrator, after meetings with all of the various partners, collaborators, whatever, after a couple of various conferences, where most of the space entities were present, goes personally to discuss NASA plans, and perhaps potential cooperation, with Muslim countries, and there is fire in the house.

And the really funny part is that the Left is doing spin, damage control, and digging foxholes, while the Right is freaking out with air-raid alarms. :lol:

Don't you love America that we are free to do this...

That is one of the things about islam that is contrary to the whole space program and american and other cultures.

Authority is absolute.

Islam was once a great religion like any other. Maybe more or less militant than others but essentually the same. Now....look at what has become of it it has REGRESSED in most ways. Most muslims simply want to live a good life....true.

But if it is around 5 to 10% who dont or feel islam is THE religion or would use it as a excuse (this is what most "extremeism" really is....greed".) to attain power or "get theirs".

What is 5 to 10% of 1 billion......also the quickest growing group.

Then there is the other problem. Islam calls for muslims to support muslims when imams say support the holly war or become a appostate...

When islam grows up or becomes freed from the hands of the tyrants in the ME and elsewhere then they can join us but until then. Do you really want to give them that advantage or chance?

 

[krash]

NASA administrator, after meetings with all of the various partners, collaborators, whatever, after a couple of various conferences, where most of the space entities were present, goes personally to discuss NASA plans, and perhaps potential cooperation, with Muslim countries, and there is fire in the house.

And the really funny part is that the Left is doing spin, damage control, and digging foxholes, while the Right is freaking out with air-raid alarms. :lol:

Don't you love America that we are free to do this...

Yeah, except it is a real stretch to classify me as a right wing extremist. I'm an atheist.

Facts are facts.

NASA's Chief Administrator said it. His statements are indefensible. If this is really Obama's vision for NASA, then the right wingers sort of have a good point.

 

[aphh]

That's not the same thing at all, that's a general statement that gives no priority over NASA's central mission of exploration. It's very different to say the foremost goal of NASA is to appeal to the Muslim world, when obviously it is not, never has been, and never will be.

Was the original interview with the remarks made on Al-Jazeera? He could have been just friendly. Foremost or one of the foremost, that is rhetorics and intended to be as friendly toned as possible.

 

[rockett]

Was the original interview with the remarks made on Al-Jazeera? He could have been just friendly.

Yes, it was made on Al-Jazeera, and he was dead serious in ascribing the tasks set for him to Obama. You can see the entire program for yourself on the 4th post down, page 1 of this thread, made by EarthlingX.

The remarks in question are in the first couple of minutes.

 

[nimbus]

Was it absurd for NASA to project soft power back in commie time?

This is an entirely different world than back then. In the cold war the various sides stayed within their borders excepting spies, of course), and the players were clearly defined. It was country to country. The present circumstances are a very fluid situation that bleeds across multiple countries. It is a LOT harder to sort out the "bad guys". We are in a shooting war with radical elements of this particular religeous/ethnic group (in case you hadn't noticed). People here in the US have died at their hands, too.

It is perfectly fine for NASA to ask for, and encourage international cooperation, quite different to single out a specific group.

Finally to task a peace mission to the NASA Director is very inappopriate, he has proven time and again his lack of diplomatic skills (and commented on that himself).

Not trying to sound smart here, but the above's all non sequitur. Commies then, Muslims now. I don't see any argument anywhere to prove otherwise.

Second, I asked this elsewhere and I'll ask here too: who here's got first hand experience with one or more countries in the middle east (IN SITU not immigrants here in the USA)? The news media here in North America aren't a reliable means of knowing this experience.

This whole thing's a big crap shoot. On one hand it's sensible to aim projection of soft power at Muslim populations, on the other you have Bolden making a train wreck out of announcing it. Like I said, sensible idea multiplied into outrageous proposal by weird pitch. Of course you then have all the media, pundits and joe six packs jumping at the opportunity to scream patriotic outrage, never mind what it is that was actually intended behind Bolden's delivery or what are the merits and demerits of all the possible exact ideas that could be the origin for what Bolden said.

In addition I see no apologetic counterpoint statements coming out of Washington over this, to include Israelis, Hindus, Bhudists, or other religeous/ethnic groups either. (how about a Catholic astronaut appointed by the Vatican?)

It's a demographic target, not a religious one. The target happens to be so traditional that its religion goes hand in hand with its modern livelihood. Israelis already are in, Hindus already work with NASA (e.g. the recent Moon probe), Bhuddists are a non-entity so it's a throw-away rimshot just like Vatican astro.

Just a big **** up. NASA's always been awkward at human PR, but now you have Obama & co. adding their fuel to the fire.. The ridiculous never ends. It could even be smokescreen BS from Obama. One more little sideways path to get to a point where NASA's space program disintegrates on its own and/or warrants major cuts.

Don't you love America that we are free to do this...

Yeah, it's great. In other countries you're forced to do stupid things, and here people do stupid things because there's no peril or impetus.

it is a real stretch to classify me as a right wing extremist. I'm an atheist.

The two have nothing to do with one another. You could be atheist or theist and be either extreme.

 

[rockett]

It's a demographic target, not a religious one. The target happens to be so traditional that its religion goes hand in hand with its modern livelihood. Israelis already are in, Hindus already work with NASA (e.g. the recent Moon probe), Bhuddists are a non-entity so it's a throw-away rimshot just like Vatican astro.

Well then, since it's a demographic, we need to start allocating astronaut slots for representational numbers of various races too, so that we have an equal employment spread. Perhaps we need to have corresponding representation of socio-economic classes as well, to be entirely fair.

Correction on Bhuddists:

Various sources put the number of Buddhists in the world at between 230 million and 500 million,[3] making it the world's fourth-largest religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

As for the Vatican:

Many people will be surprised to learn that the Catholic Church has its own crack team of scientists - mainly Jesuits - who do front line research. For example, there's a team who study the heavens through telescopes at the Vatican Observatory. The Pope can also turn to his own academy of sciences.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/vaticanscientists.shtml

...so, while my choices were a little tongue in cheek, they weren't entirely facetious.

Just a big **** up. NASA's always been awkward at human PR, but now you have Obama & co. adding their fuel to the fire.. The ridiculous never ends. It could even be total bluster from Obama. One more little sideways path to get to a point where NASA's space program disintegrates on its own and/or warrants major cuts.

I read it more as a way to rob the NASA penny bank for social agendas - such as the 100 mil that was recently stolen for job programs. There IS no NASA Space program effectively. Remember:

"When I became the NASA administrator, (President Obama) charged me with three things," Bolden said in the interview which aired last week. "One, he wanted me to help re-inspire children to want to get into science and math; he wanted me to expand our international relationships; and third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math and engineering."
http://www.floridatoday.com/article...den-s-Muslim-remark-to-Al-Jazeera-causes-stir

What that says is NASA has become:
1. An educational program
2. A diplomatic program

No space program in those priorities that I can see. To add proof to that, if you really look closely at the proposed 2011 NASA budget you get only a little over $2.5 B to serious research into space exploration. (See the breakdown of my analysis on Is Obama-Bolden budget a tool to kill NASA?, page 3, 5th post from the top http://www.space.com/common/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=24917&start=44)

In other countries you're forced to do stupid things, and here people do stupid things because there's no peril or impetus.

And unless appearences deceive, get you elected or appointed. :lol:

 

[nimbus]

It's a demographic target, not a religious one. The target happens to be so traditional that its religion goes hand in hand with its modern livelihood. Israelis already are in, Hindus already work with NASA (e.g. the recent Moon probe), Bhuddists are a non-entity so it's a throw-away rimshot just like Vatican astro.

Well then, since it's a demographic, we need to start allocating astronaut slots for representational numbers of various races too, so that we have an equal employment spread. Perhaps we need to have corresponding representation of socio-economic classes as well, to be entirely fair.

Again sounding really stiff, but here I have to assume it's just humor. Does nothing to prove your point because that's not the point here: muslim today are easily the first best target for soft power projection. Because of geopolitical circumstances and multiplied by their demographic size. It may not have been said that commies needed to be target of soft power projection back then, but the need was there too. If a dingbat wearing a pointy hat came out and made a statement that he reckoned as some major chief of staff in the US gov. that we "should be buddies more with the USSR wink wink nudge nudge", it would've been missing the point to get stuck on the delivery instead of recognizing the real need for soft power projection it led to.

Correction on Bhuddists:

Various sources put the number of Buddhists in the world at between 230 million and 500 million,[3] making it the world's fourth-largest religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

Norwegian buddhist grandmas bombed the WTC.

As for the Vatican:

Many people will be surprised to learn that the Catholic Church has its own crack team of scientists - mainly Jesuits - who do front line research. For example, there's a team who study the heavens through telescopes at the Vatican Observatory. The Pope can also turn to his own academy of sciences.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/vaticanscientists.shtml

...so, while my choices were a little tongue in cheek, they weren't entirely facetious.

But it's meaningless for the same reason.

Just a big **** up. NASA's always been awkward at human PR, but now you have Obama & co. adding their fuel to the fire.. The ridiculous never ends. It could even be total bluster from Obama. One more little sideways path to get to a point where NASA's space program disintegrates on its own and/or warrants major cuts.

I read it more as a way to rob the NASA penny bank for social agendas - such as the 100 mil that was recently stolen for job programs.

I wouldn't put it above them and I'm not holding my breath for anything extraordinary from either the admin or the public. But I'm not seeing any inarguable evidence that they mean to kill NASA either.

There IS no NASA Space program effectively.

Very arguable. The way I read it is that Obama's a social animal with very ... "unique" stripe patterns if you'll pardon my french, and that his beef is elsewhere. He's basically indifferent to space activity. It's just a tool for him, so if for a given problem (transition from PoR, etc) one of the solutions not only meets his agenda (no extraordinary funding so he can play with his toys elsewhere in the list of presidential Issues) as well as other solutions, but also promises to make him look good, he'll probably choose that solution. Such as some (even if frankensteinian) formula where NASA works out a rugged basis for all the little technologies not yet ready to support BEO. Life support, ISRU, etc. There was an announcement back in May that did this and it looked good.
http://nspires.nasaprs.com/external/sol ... &path=open

Remember:

"When I became the NASA administrator, (President Obama) charged me with three things," Bolden said in the interview which aired last week. "One, he wanted me to help re-inspire children to want to get into science and math; he wanted me to expand our international relationships; and third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math and engineering."
http://www.floridatoday.com/article...den-s-Muslim-remark-to-Al-Jazeera-causes-stir

What that says is NASA has become:
1. An educational program
2. A diplomatic program

No space program in those priorities that I can see. To add proof to that, if you really look closely at the proposed 2011 NASA budget you get only a little over $2.5 B to serious research into space exploration. (See the breakdown of my analysis on Is Obama-Bolden budget a tool to kill NASA?, page 3, 5th post from the top http://www.space.com/common/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=24917&start=44)

It doesn't rule out some Chinese Whispers effect. Maybe Obama even picked Bolden because he could see how good a train wreck distraction he'd be. Is this announcement suspiciously weird, yes. Is the idea that NASA shouldn't make world muslim (again it dwarfs any "buddhist" or "vatican" or "israeli" demographics for urgency and volume) population the target for soft power projection, bad in principle? No way. Is this nuance lost under all the noise of knee jerk patriotism and vaguely anti-muslim nonplussed-ness - it looks like it.

 

[MiamiBeach]

Mixing church and state, repressive cultural norms, and their hatred for our (from their perspective) liberal freedoms, create a very threatening proposition for a lot of people in the US.

Since we are in what amounts to a world-wide shooting war with these extremists, it must seem like treason to offer such a specific statement of outreach by Bolden, especially since it appears so far outside his span of authority.

In addition I see no apologetic counterpoint statements coming out of Washington over this

Leftists are always up in arms over mixing church and state when it comes to Christians here in the US. Personally, I'm agnostic and could care less about religion, but the hypocrisy of being concerned about religion here in the US, and not worried(in fact supportive) of real life religious extremists who are at war with our country. It shows a hatred for our nation. It shows that poltical power is all they are interested in to the detriment of everything including space exploration. Obama/Bolden do not like the fact that when NASA has great success, it makes the USA look awesome compared to the rest of the world...thats their thinking. They have no American pride, they have self pride, and racial pride. Its not just about re-distribution of wealth, but also re-distribution of success, pride, and everything you can imagine. Leftism by definition is treasonous. They are about to be routed on the battlefield of elections in a little over 3 months!

 

[rockett]

It doesn't rule out some Chinese Whispers effect. Maybe Obama even picked Bolden because he could see how good a train wreck distraction he'd be. Is this announcement suspiciously weird, yes. Is the idea that NASA shouldn't make world muslim (again it dwarfs any "buddhist" or "vatican" or "israeli" demographics for urgency and volume) population the target for soft power projection, bad in principle? No way. Is this nuance lost under all the noise of knee jerk patriotism and vaguely anti-muslim nonplussed-ness - it looks like it.

If you wanted to stir up the opposition, this would be a good way to accomplish that. Think about it for a moment: NASA budget hearings+upcomming elections+this announcement. I think there may well be more going on here than meets the eye. The timing looks very suspicious to me. Say your objective was to "innocentlly" sabotage, rather than promote something...

 

[nimbus]

I'm not betting on anything but for the best, realistic outcomes to be lost in the scuffle.

 

[rockett]

Well, well, well. Whether planned or not, a connection such as I mentioned is being made!

Vitter rips Obama space plan at tank ceremony
U.S. Sen. David Vitter of Louisiana opened this morning's ceremony celebrating the delivery of NASA's last shuttle external tank by ripping President Obama's "radical" proposals for the space agency...

...He (Vetter) also criticized NASA Administrator Charlie Bolden's recent interview with Al Jazeera, part of an administration effort to reach out to Muslim communities.

"Call me old fashioned, but I certainly don't want (NASA's) primary purpose to be outreach to Muslim countries to make them feel good about their science [inaudible]," he said.
http://flametrench.flatoday.net/2010/07/vitter-rips-obama-space-plan-at-tank.html

Looks like the Senate wants to roll back some of Obama Space too

Senate Panel Near Agreement on Bill to Roll Back NASA Changes
NEW ORLEANS — Republican and Democratic leaders on the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation are moving toward an authorization bill that would reverse large swaths of President Obama’s proposed changes to NASA’s human space flight program, a ranking Republican involved in the talks confirmed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/09/science/space/09nasa.html

...it just gets curiouser and curiouser.

 

[nimbus]

What connection?

 

[rockett]

What connection?

NASA budget hearings+upcomming elections+this announcement

 

[HopDavid]

Leftists are always up in arms over mixing church and state when it comes to Christians here in the US. Personally, I'm agnostic and could care less about religion, but the hypocrisy of being concerned about religion here in the US, and not worried(in fact supportive) of real life religious extremists who are at war with our country. It shows a hatred for our nation. It shows that poltical power is all they are interested in to the detriment of everything including space exploration. Obama/Bolden do not like the fact that when NASA has great success, it makes the USA look awesome compared to the rest of the world...thats their thinking. They have no American pride, they have self pride, and racial pride. Its not just about re-distribution of wealth, but also re-distribution of success, pride, and everything you can imagine. Leftism by definition is treasonous. They are about to be routed on the battlefield of elections in a little over 3 months!

Space exploration is a noble common goal that can unify the diverse peoples of the planet.

I very much liked Bolden's interview.

All the histrionics it's generated is a tempest in a teapot.

 

[rockett]

Space exploration is a noble common goal that can unify the diverse peoples of the planet.

I very much liked Bolden's interview.

All the histrionics it's generated is a tempest in a teapot.

Bad timing though, just as Congress is putting together their real budget bill for NASA