Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Hey Swampcat, my secret decoder ring doesn't include PoR. Can you translate?
Hey Swampcat, my secret decoder ring doesn't include PoR. Can you translate?
- Status
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Plan of Reorganization?MeteorWayne":2ofclb3s said:Hey Swampcat, my secret decoder ring doesn't include PoR. Can you translate?
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Well said menellom. Couldn't agree more.
menellom":1cg6qs7p said:
Well said menellom. Couldn't agree more.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
:lol: The U. S. shall NEVER send astronauts back to the Moon, or ever to Mars, or anywhere else in deep space. The U. S. is a dying empire that is still trying to conquer the world with dwindling resources. If you want to go to the Moon, hitch a ride with the Chinese. They shall colonize the Moon and the U. S. and Europe shall degrade into impotence. Like Spain exploring the "New World", The U. S. and Europe are rapidly becoming the "Final Frontier's" "has beens".:lol:
:lol: The U. S. shall NEVER send astronauts back to the Moon, or ever to Mars, or anywhere else in deep space. The U. S. is a dying empire that is still trying to conquer the world with dwindling resources. If you want to go to the Moon, hitch a ride with the Chinese. They shall colonize the Moon and the U. S. and Europe shall degrade into impotence. Like Spain exploring the "New World", The U. S. and Europe are rapidly becoming the "Final Frontier's" "has beens".:lol:
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
A lot of people are going to jump on Obama for this, but does he really have a choice? Getting out of national deficit and making budgetary cuts is more important than going to the moon for now.
Besides, patriotism sucks. There's no real difference if the US goes to the moon, or Europe goes to the moon, or China goes to the moon or whatever. We're just human beings, and there's no need to be competitive when it comes to something that constitutes that little first step into the future. Really we should be working together. US citizens could go to the moon if there was a joint international effort to do so. If a lot of European nations, China, Russia, and the US pitched in, then money wouldn't be a problem.
A lot of people are going to jump on Obama for this, but does he really have a choice? Getting out of national deficit and making budgetary cuts is more important than going to the moon for now.
Besides, patriotism sucks. There's no real difference if the US goes to the moon, or Europe goes to the moon, or China goes to the moon or whatever. We're just human beings, and there's no need to be competitive when it comes to something that constitutes that little first step into the future. Really we should be working together. US citizens could go to the moon if there was a joint international effort to do so. If a lot of European nations, China, Russia, and the US pitched in, then money wouldn't be a problem.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Usage suggests that PoR stands for Program of Record, which in this case would be Constellation/Orion.
Usage suggests that PoR stands for Program of Record, which in this case would be Constellation/Orion.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Constellation/Orion IS a bit of a dissapointment. However I view this budget submittal as an opening salvo rather than the final shot. The Obama Administration can propose whatever it wants, but it is a long process between now and when the budgets finally get past by Congress.
Certainly this will stir up even more debate than the recent commission. Possibly we will all find out if the Space special interest group still has legs to stand on and if it can get a piece of the pie like all of the other interest groups supplicating the administration.
Constellation/Orion IS a bit of a dissapointment. However I view this budget submittal as an opening salvo rather than the final shot. The Obama Administration can propose whatever it wants, but it is a long process between now and when the budgets finally get past by Congress.
Certainly this will stir up even more debate than the recent commission. Possibly we will all find out if the Space special interest group still has legs to stand on and if it can get a piece of the pie like all of the other interest groups supplicating the administration.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Let's not panic until we hear what the budget plans really are. There may still be some surprises. As Keith Cowing of NASAWatch.com pointed out, Space Station Freedom didn't totally go away; it became the ISS. The Orion/Constellation project may disappear but be reincarnated in a different form. Stay tuned.
Also, don't forget that SpaceX is still serious about human spaceflight. They may have a long way to go, but they might be closer to launching a "manned" Dragon than NASA is to flying a "manned" Orion. (Call me sexist, but "manned" is still a useful adjective in the context.)
Let's not panic until we hear what the budget plans really are. There may still be some surprises. As Keith Cowing of NASAWatch.com pointed out, Space Station Freedom didn't totally go away; it became the ISS. The Orion/Constellation project may disappear but be reincarnated in a different form. Stay tuned.
Also, don't forget that SpaceX is still serious about human spaceflight. They may have a long way to go, but they might be closer to launching a "manned" Dragon than NASA is to flying a "manned" Orion. (Call me sexist, but "manned" is still a useful adjective in the context.)
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
If the same budget for HSF was devoted to robotics and science in space, that would greatly improve our capabilities.
Presently, human space flight enables us to muck about in LEO. Or, pushing the evelope, for sortie missions to other bodies that leave no reusable infra structure. Such activities are only spinning our tires in the mud. It gets us no closer to the goal of settling space.
However better robotics and a good knowledge of available resources would go much further towards enabling us to eventually settle space.
Gravity_Ray":1tjqk69a said:
If the same budget for HSF was devoted to robotics and science in space, that would greatly improve our capabilities.
Presently, human space flight enables us to muck about in LEO. Or, pushing the evelope, for sortie missions to other bodies that leave no reusable infra structure. Such activities are only spinning our tires in the mud. It gets us no closer to the goal of settling space.
However better robotics and a good knowledge of available resources would go much further towards enabling us to eventually settle space.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Someone should tell Burt Rutan. He has plans in the pipeline that reach all the way to Mars.
Then, don't count out "the land rush of discovery." Already, we have detected 429 planets including 13 that have been photographed and one that is strongly suspected of organic life. Even better, we are now able to see the direct spectrum of a planet, which is how we will prove organic life and civilizations exist.
There is a strong possibility that we will have identified at least one living planet by the end of this decade and finding another civilization isn't out of the question. And, since interstellar civilizations leave far large footprints in the Cosmos, expect that civilization to be star farers. Trust me. The day after the discovery, all hell will break loose and human space flight will have more money than they know what to do with as everyone races to claim Humanity's back yard, better known as the solar system.
Someone should tell Burt Rutan. He has plans in the pipeline that reach all the way to Mars.
Then, don't count out "the land rush of discovery." Already, we have detected 429 planets including 13 that have been photographed and one that is strongly suspected of organic life. Even better, we are now able to see the direct spectrum of a planet, which is how we will prove organic life and civilizations exist.
There is a strong possibility that we will have identified at least one living planet by the end of this decade and finding another civilization isn't out of the question. And, since interstellar civilizations leave far large footprints in the Cosmos, expect that civilization to be star farers. Trust me. The day after the discovery, all hell will break loose and human space flight will have more money than they know what to do with as everyone races to claim Humanity's back yard, better known as the solar system.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
THANK you for being one of the few rational people who's realized that all these 'sky is falling' articles the last day are based on speculation, not fact. It's so irritating seeing all these people so quick to jump on the bandwagon of condemning the President and already eulogizing the space program when there's been no confirmable information on what the President's proposal is.
Now, if when the budget is submitted on Monday, it's absolute *beep*, then feel free to slam him.
JBM425":3ds88mkb said:
THANK you for being one of the few rational people who's realized that all these 'sky is falling' articles the last day are based on speculation, not fact. It's so irritating seeing all these people so quick to jump on the bandwagon of condemning the President and already eulogizing the space program when there's been no confirmable information on what the President's proposal is.
Now, if when the budget is submitted on Monday, it's absolute *beep*, then feel free to slam him.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
You're exactly right. I believe that with the current state of things on this planet, it is not responsible to spend billions just trying to figure out how to get off of it. Too much money is needed in other places right now, and majority of US citizens care more about that and less about manned space exploration at this time.
Solifugae":2xnl5ean said:
You're exactly right. I believe that with the current state of things on this planet, it is not responsible to spend billions just trying to figure out how to get off of it. Too much money is needed in other places right now, and majority of US citizens care more about that and less about manned space exploration at this time.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
During the post Apollo 11 drawdown I kept hearing the rhetoric (paraphrasing here) "What if no-one followed Columbus back into the new world?" Well, we now know that the Vikings got across the Atlantic first, but didn't find much and so didn't come back. Columbus, on the other hand, finally convinced Ferdinand and Isabella that there were cash savings to be made by establishing an alternate trade route. If the Russians are charging NASA $42 million per astronaut for each ISS round-trip, how long do you think it will take before someone else steps in and offers the same for less? Space flight will become routine only when someone thinks they can make a profit doing it.
During the post Apollo 11 drawdown I kept hearing the rhetoric (paraphrasing here) "What if no-one followed Columbus back into the new world?" Well, we now know that the Vikings got across the Atlantic first, but didn't find much and so didn't come back. Columbus, on the other hand, finally convinced Ferdinand and Isabella that there were cash savings to be made by establishing an alternate trade route. If the Russians are charging NASA $42 million per astronaut for each ISS round-trip, how long do you think it will take before someone else steps in and offers the same for less? Space flight will become routine only when someone thinks they can make a profit doing it.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Could that not have been said at practically every point in human history?
One could of made the same argument in opposition to Colombus's journey to the new world. The same argument could of been made about colonization of the new world in general. The same argument could of been made when man was just beginning to travel across the ocean in the first ships. The same argument could be made about practically any new field or technology.
It is a terrible argument for two large reasons.
First of all the money spent on things like human space flight is insignificant to the amount spent by the government as a whole. The government's yearly budget including the social programs comes out to be around 3 trillion. NASA's expenditure on human spaceflight comes out to be around $7 billion yearly. That comes out to be .23 percent of the federal budget. You can find more than that in loose change lying around the pentagon. Cancelling manned space flight entirely would not make a difference at all.
Secondly the money and resources spent on new frontiers has yielded a long term return on investment that makes the cost of the money spend on these new frontiers negligible. Can one honestly say that the money spent on the first few trips into the new world did not bring a great return on investment? Can one honestly say that the first few ventures into the sea was not worth the resources spent on them giving the modern shipping industry today?
This thinking simply results from a failure to think long term. Sure going to the moon might not provide any immediate return as if you took that money and spent it on some social program, but the future benefits are enormous in comparison.
clint_dreamer":2re0lfwk said:
Could that not have been said at practically every point in human history?
One could of made the same argument in opposition to Colombus's journey to the new world. The same argument could of been made about colonization of the new world in general. The same argument could of been made when man was just beginning to travel across the ocean in the first ships. The same argument could be made about practically any new field or technology.
It is a terrible argument for two large reasons.
First of all the money spent on things like human space flight is insignificant to the amount spent by the government as a whole. The government's yearly budget including the social programs comes out to be around 3 trillion. NASA's expenditure on human spaceflight comes out to be around $7 billion yearly. That comes out to be .23 percent of the federal budget. You can find more than that in loose change lying around the pentagon. Cancelling manned space flight entirely would not make a difference at all.
Secondly the money and resources spent on new frontiers has yielded a long term return on investment that makes the cost of the money spend on these new frontiers negligible. Can one honestly say that the money spent on the first few trips into the new world did not bring a great return on investment? Can one honestly say that the first few ventures into the sea was not worth the resources spent on them giving the modern shipping industry today?
This thinking simply results from a failure to think long term. Sure going to the moon might not provide any immediate return as if you took that money and spent it on some social program, but the future benefits are enormous in comparison.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Personally, I never was all that much in favor of going to the moon again. And the Orion capsules always seemed like a step backwards. That said, there is a bigger reason for going back to the moon... Now...
Aside from being a proving ground for longer manned missions and habitats the only real reason to go there would have been the abundant helium3 on the moon. Something which we never could figure out how to use. However, with the new advances at the NIF facility at LLNL regarding laser fusion, we just may have not only a reason to go there, but also could be looking at the future of space travel. And a potential new powerplant for, if I dare say, interstellar travel.
Check it out at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8485669.stm
https://lasers.llnl.gov/
Personally, I never was all that much in favor of going to the moon again. And the Orion capsules always seemed like a step backwards. That said, there is a bigger reason for going back to the moon... Now...
Aside from being a proving ground for longer manned missions and habitats the only real reason to go there would have been the abundant helium3 on the moon. Something which we never could figure out how to use. However, with the new advances at the NIF facility at LLNL regarding laser fusion, we just may have not only a reason to go there, but also could be looking at the future of space travel. And a potential new powerplant for, if I dare say, interstellar travel.
Check it out at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8485669.stm
https://lasers.llnl.gov/
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
"The U. S. shall NEVER send astronauts back to the Moon, or ever to Mars, or anywhere else in deep space. The U. S. is a dying empire that is still trying to conquer the world with dwindling resources. If you want to go to the Moon, hitch a ride with the Chinese. They shall colonize the Moon and the U. S. and Europe shall degrade into impotence. Like Spain exploring the "New World", The U. S. and Europe are rapidly becoming the "Final Frontier's" has beens."
:roll:
Oh good the trolls from military.com and defensetech are here to spread nonsence.
BTW if you count all the natural gas, oil, and such the US has far more than anyone else. See thats the thing. We HAVE tons of resources we are just not allowed to use them.
-------------------------------------------
OK i will admit my first response to this was to go AHHHH!h!h!h!h!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:
But then i took a breath. I have never really believed we were going to get a moon base by 2020. Nasa like many industries is drowning in redtape and lawyers. I think as others suggested Nasa needs to stick to reaserch and such. Its to expensive for government to do anything now.
Maybe now we can start to build up better cheaper space infestructure. The Congress needs to give more freedom and to give incentives to buisness to expand in the aerospace field, not hamper and tie it down in useless politics and taxes. If we need a super heavy launcher well, just get a private company to design, build and launch the thing use Nasa to dole out the money.
--------------------------------------------------------
Ok with the spaceshuttle heres my veiw. It was a great idea. Unfortunatly it had happen what happens to alot of military vehicles, ships etc. Mission creap in a sense. Someone wanted to be able to do this....then somebody added another mission to the frame and another and well you get it. Pretty soon instead of a spacetruck which is what it was supposed to be. We had a to expensive mini spaceship, mini space station, supersized spacetruck. That was to expensive and more complex than it needed to be.
The death kneel of the spaceshuttle was heard some time ago. Its not that it doesnt work but that its to costly in manpower and in time. 50,000 people work to make a shuttle launch. All of these people cost alot of money more than the launch fuel etc itself. The same thing is happening to ares.......or was.
I think just a couple of things we need are
a) medium to small launching system to get small to med. cargo/personel to orbit.
b) a modual to return move people or cargo to and from the spacestation or the ISS that is both cheap and fast
Now we have one of those and are close to getting the second with dragon. We also need a heavy launch system for cargo that wont fit on other smaller launchers.
Anyways just my 2 cents
"The U. S. shall NEVER send astronauts back to the Moon, or ever to Mars, or anywhere else in deep space. The U. S. is a dying empire that is still trying to conquer the world with dwindling resources. If you want to go to the Moon, hitch a ride with the Chinese. They shall colonize the Moon and the U. S. and Europe shall degrade into impotence. Like Spain exploring the "New World", The U. S. and Europe are rapidly becoming the "Final Frontier's" has beens."
:roll:
Oh good the trolls from military.com and defensetech are here to spread nonsence.
BTW if you count all the natural gas, oil, and such the US has far more than anyone else. See thats the thing. We HAVE tons of resources we are just not allowed to use them.
-------------------------------------------
OK i will admit my first response to this was to go AHHHH!h!h!h!h!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:
But then i took a breath. I have never really believed we were going to get a moon base by 2020. Nasa like many industries is drowning in redtape and lawyers. I think as others suggested Nasa needs to stick to reaserch and such. Its to expensive for government to do anything now.
Maybe now we can start to build up better cheaper space infestructure. The Congress needs to give more freedom and to give incentives to buisness to expand in the aerospace field, not hamper and tie it down in useless politics and taxes. If we need a super heavy launcher well, just get a private company to design, build and launch the thing use Nasa to dole out the money.
--------------------------------------------------------
Ok with the spaceshuttle heres my veiw. It was a great idea. Unfortunatly it had happen what happens to alot of military vehicles, ships etc. Mission creap in a sense. Someone wanted to be able to do this....then somebody added another mission to the frame and another and well you get it. Pretty soon instead of a spacetruck which is what it was supposed to be. We had a to expensive mini spaceship, mini space station, supersized spacetruck. That was to expensive and more complex than it needed to be.
The death kneel of the spaceshuttle was heard some time ago. Its not that it doesnt work but that its to costly in manpower and in time. 50,000 people work to make a shuttle launch. All of these people cost alot of money more than the launch fuel etc itself. The same thing is happening to ares.......or was.
I think just a couple of things we need are
a) medium to small launching system to get small to med. cargo/personel to orbit.
b) a modual to return move people or cargo to and from the spacestation or the ISS that is both cheap and fast
Now we have one of those and are close to getting the second with dragon. We also need a heavy launch system for cargo that wont fit on other smaller launchers.
Anyways just my 2 cents
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
The Ares I is being axed in favor of the Taurus II and Falcon 9
The Ares I simply doesn't make sense. It's over budget, Behind schedule, unsafe, ect. ect.
http://www.orbital.com/SpaceLaunch/TaurusII/
The Ares I is being axed in favor of the Taurus II and Falcon 9
The Ares I simply doesn't make sense. It's over budget, Behind schedule, unsafe, ect. ect.
http://www.orbital.com/SpaceLaunch/TaurusII/
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
All this bickering about who's at fault is gettion old. Bush did this Obama did that! Don't you see politicians don't care about space exploration. They are all the same serving the elite's interests not the peoples. The only way humanity will explore space without military interest is an overthrow of the system.
All this bickering about who's at fault is gettion old. Bush did this Obama did that! Don't you see politicians don't care about space exploration. They are all the same serving the elite's interests not the peoples. The only way humanity will explore space without military interest is an overthrow of the system.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Lol. Good one. In my opinion you are wrong, but that's just my opinion remember. I love how the "new world" argument gets brought into every discussion like this, like it's the same exact thing. The big difference is that it was fiscally responsible for people at that time to continue exploring plant Earth as there was a wealth of resources out there waiting. What is not fiscally responsible is for a nation that is up to it's eyeballs in debt to spend that kind of money when they are fully engaged in 2 wars, a recession, etc. There are plenty of missions going on right now that will beam HD quality images straight to your desktop.
Stop taking NASA budgets and manned space exploration so personally. It's nice to daydream about rocketing to the Moon, or Mars and setting up a base there, but let's get to work on the real problems plaguing our planet right now. The Moon and Mars will happen later. Maybe not even in our lifetime, but I would much rather see a few of the issues this planet is having currently solved before seeing another man walk on the Moon, or Mars. As for your last sentance. Taking care of our people and planet today will ensure healthy and educated children in the future. That's responsible long term thinking.
DarkenedOne":ki5sh4mp said:
Lol. Good one. In my opinion you are wrong, but that's just my opinion remember. I love how the "new world" argument gets brought into every discussion like this, like it's the same exact thing. The big difference is that it was fiscally responsible for people at that time to continue exploring plant Earth as there was a wealth of resources out there waiting. What is not fiscally responsible is for a nation that is up to it's eyeballs in debt to spend that kind of money when they are fully engaged in 2 wars, a recession, etc. There are plenty of missions going on right now that will beam HD quality images straight to your desktop.
Stop taking NASA budgets and manned space exploration so personally. It's nice to daydream about rocketing to the Moon, or Mars and setting up a base there, but let's get to work on the real problems plaguing our planet right now. The Moon and Mars will happen later. Maybe not even in our lifetime, but I would much rather see a few of the issues this planet is having currently solved before seeing another man walk on the Moon, or Mars. As for your last sentance. Taking care of our people and planet today will ensure healthy and educated children in the future. That's responsible long term thinking.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
I've been posting on forums since early this morning and dealing with a lot of angry people who just don't understand what's happening or have their ties to Nasa and don't want it to happen. Human spaceflight is about to take off in directions that many of us dreamed about while watching the first human step foot on the moon.
If Obama follows through and the private secter can be kept on schedule, we could be supplying the ISS by 2012 and flying humans to LEO shortly there after.
We want to go beyond LEO. The problem is, those of us who watched man walk on the moon and got dreams of flying in space are getting old. If we wish to see our dreams come true before we pass on, then we must do it fast.
When people came to America they risked their lives to settle and explore a new land. It's part of the human nature for one to risk their life for something they believe in. Someone once posted here "send me on a one way ticket to Mars and I'll just pick that rover up and move it". Our gov is starting to understand this kind of attitude is going to prevail. They can't stop it, but they can't allow Nasa to take those kinds of risk and be subject to the political fall out.
If a Falcon 9 leaves with humans aboard and takes off from outside the U.S. , That's when the U.S. becomes #2 or as one poster put it "a third world country". (a bit extreme)
I've been posting on forums since early this morning and dealing with a lot of angry people who just don't understand what's happening or have their ties to Nasa and don't want it to happen. Human spaceflight is about to take off in directions that many of us dreamed about while watching the first human step foot on the moon.
If Obama follows through and the private secter can be kept on schedule, we could be supplying the ISS by 2012 and flying humans to LEO shortly there after.
We want to go beyond LEO. The problem is, those of us who watched man walk on the moon and got dreams of flying in space are getting old. If we wish to see our dreams come true before we pass on, then we must do it fast.
When people came to America they risked their lives to settle and explore a new land. It's part of the human nature for one to risk their life for something they believe in. Someone once posted here "send me on a one way ticket to Mars and I'll just pick that rover up and move it". Our gov is starting to understand this kind of attitude is going to prevail. They can't stop it, but they can't allow Nasa to take those kinds of risk and be subject to the political fall out.
If a Falcon 9 leaves with humans aboard and takes off from outside the U.S. , That's when the U.S. becomes #2 or as one poster put it "a third world country". (a bit extreme)
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
If I could pass the physical , sit on top of a Falcon9 HL, and go where no man has gone before knowing I'not coming back; I'd do it in a heartbeat because I know I don't have many heartbeats left.
Over the last couple months some of the privateers have managed to come up with additional funding. With a little more funding and an open door to launch the race is on. The cancelation of the Ares I with additional money being added to Cots pays the way to LEO. The components needed to go beyond LEO could be complete by 2015 if the funding is found.(and it will be) If India or France are willing to pay 1bil for 1 cu meter of unrefined HE3, then there's someone to go for it. If Nasa stays on it's present course, what are they going to do when they get to that crater with H2O in it ? Say "Move over guy we meant to be here first" !
I have counted over 100 groups and orgs that want to build something in space. 2 companies want to build a power plant at Lunar L4. With the creation of Lagrange City/Logistics all they need to do is come up with enough money to buy a second hand module and the UPS of our solar system gets them there. It's a break out coming, not the end of humans in space.
Many of us saw 10 years of new .coms popping up everywhere. I believe most of you will see 10 years of new space companies being created. How much money has been generated by the shares of GOOG ? Only one company/org needs to succeed beyond LEO. Then they'll all want to do it.
If I could pass the physical , sit on top of a Falcon9 HL, and go where no man has gone before knowing I'not coming back; I'd do it in a heartbeat because I know I don't have many heartbeats left.
Over the last couple months some of the privateers have managed to come up with additional funding. With a little more funding and an open door to launch the race is on. The cancelation of the Ares I with additional money being added to Cots pays the way to LEO. The components needed to go beyond LEO could be complete by 2015 if the funding is found.(and it will be) If India or France are willing to pay 1bil for 1 cu meter of unrefined HE3, then there's someone to go for it. If Nasa stays on it's present course, what are they going to do when they get to that crater with H2O in it ? Say "Move over guy we meant to be here first" !
I have counted over 100 groups and orgs that want to build something in space. 2 companies want to build a power plant at Lunar L4. With the creation of Lagrange City/Logistics all they need to do is come up with enough money to buy a second hand module and the UPS of our solar system gets them there. It's a break out coming, not the end of humans in space.
Many of us saw 10 years of new .coms popping up everywhere. I believe most of you will see 10 years of new space companies being created. How much money has been generated by the shares of GOOG ? Only one company/org needs to succeed beyond LEO. Then they'll all want to do it.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Those that are jumping on it are ignoring the situation that lead up to today.
In addition, even if Obama said double it, then those same ppl would say that it was the neo-cons that caused it.
I suspect that at least one or two are professional republican campaign ppl and are here to add FUD.
Personally, I want to see what comes out of this. I hear far too many things being said.
As it is, nearly ALL blogs and articles say that he will increase it. Considering that the republicans did not due it for 10 long years (fought both CLinton and W), it will be a nice change. And if we can get private space to take over and maintain a forward direction leading to the moon and mars, I say GREAT.
W killed X-33, the shuttle and underfunded constellation.
We need to get beyond such garbage. If we can get private space to use their money to make this happen, then we are in for a great future.
menellom":160r62g9 said:
Those that are jumping on it are ignoring the situation that lead up to today.
In addition, even if Obama said double it, then those same ppl would say that it was the neo-cons that caused it.
I suspect that at least one or two are professional republican campaign ppl and are here to add FUD.
Personally, I want to see what comes out of this. I hear far too many things being said.
As it is, nearly ALL blogs and articles say that he will increase it. Considering that the republicans did not due it for 10 long years (fought both CLinton and W), it will be a nice change. And if we can get private space to take over and maintain a forward direction leading to the moon and mars, I say GREAT.
W killed X-33, the shuttle and underfunded constellation.
We need to get beyond such garbage. If we can get private space to use their money to make this happen, then we are in for a great future.
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
Putting aside doom and gloom, I still think that the best thing that can happen to NASA is to stop competing with private industry to fly humans to LEO, Moon, or any place else.
NASA should work on ISRU technology, Robotics, Space Suites, vehicles for Moon and Mars, power systems etc... And pay for services rendered by private industry for all freight and manned missions.
It will be ever cheaper for private industry to learn how to do manned missions than for NASA to continue to do manned missions.
There is precedence for this in history, when in the turn of last century the US Post Office started using private industry to move mail and freight around, this gave a true start to commercial airlines. Wouldn't it be great as this century begins NASA gives private industry the green light to move freight to LEO and the Moon (which will very quickly allow humans to follow as technology improves)?
Putting aside doom and gloom, I still think that the best thing that can happen to NASA is to stop competing with private industry to fly humans to LEO, Moon, or any place else.
NASA should work on ISRU technology, Robotics, Space Suites, vehicles for Moon and Mars, power systems etc... And pay for services rendered by private industry for all freight and manned missions.
It will be ever cheaper for private industry to learn how to do manned missions than for NASA to continue to do manned missions.
There is precedence for this in history, when in the turn of last century the US Post Office started using private industry to move mail and freight around, this gave a true start to commercial airlines. Wouldn't it be great as this century begins NASA gives private industry the green light to move freight to LEO and the Moon (which will very quickly allow humans to follow as technology improves)?
Re: So thats it...no more humans in space
This a "scary" moment for U.S. mnned spaceflight because it represents stepping into the unknown. The use of private
entities committed to supporting future manned flights is "scary" not because they can't do it, but because this may
be way for the adminstration to kill the space program entirely. It is possible the government simply underfunds the effort - blames the private contractors for not meeting goals they couldn't have because they never were funded in
the first place. A very clever way to end support for any space program. Don't tell us the money will be there in the coming years - make sure it IS !
It is also "scary" because it is sending a clear message to the world that America is NOT able to, or willing to support fut-
ure exploration. The country that starts backpedaling enters the "Portugal Spiral". Ask anyone which country was the
world power during Columbus' era and nearly everyone says Spain. It wasn't. Portugal was the "big dog" who dismissed Columbus' plan because they didn't need new routes to the spices. They controlled the existing ones, and why
waste money on this new exploration. Many other space age Columbus's are lurking in the mist, and now they have the
opportunity to pull off another "sputnik" on the U.S. It would be nice if the people who make these decisions will have to
explain why we are watching astronauts from any number of other countries landing on the Moon and setting up colonies there. It will be bad enough that we will have to be buying "rides" for our crews at higher rates than those charged the "civilian space flight participants". Let's just admit we are a "second-level" space flight country. And if we become "second-rate" in the eyes of the world, just think how this influences the actions of our enemies ? I'm sure there were those Romans who thought the barbarians were just an annoyance too.
America went to the Moon first. Now, we stand a high chance of being the last country to return to the Moon in the second wave of exploration. While we can find money to bail out private companies, we can't apparently find the will
and funding to more forward. This is a time when we need to create new trechnologies, new industries, and well paid jobs.
It seems that everytime a politician running for office comes to the space community and praises them, promising plenty
of future support - it is the kiss of death and they end up cutting space related activities. Politicians don't seem to be aware that once you disperse your team's talent it takes decades to rebuild that quality base again. In a country that already graduates too few engineers and scientists, this will have long term effects because employment opportunities will dry up limiting the employment opportunities for young graduates. The private contractors will be attempting to more with less as the profit margin becomes paramont.
NASA has provided far more than just space flight. It has provided quality opportunities for talented people. NASA has fostered talent, new opportunities to experiment with concepts, and created benefits far beyond just space flight. Can
the same be said for bailing out a private bank that was probably mismanaged in the first place ? Instead we should be
spending money on new initatives, creating new well paying positions, and working on things that will improve our future
and that of mankind. Saying that we are switching over to private contractors is nice - on paper. There is no backup if
something happens. The next decade will be interesting just as long as we move forward. I see the contractor's as the
scapegoats for those who want the system to fail because they not only don't support the space efforts, but they are
seeking ways to make it look bad. We will see, but when you look at all the positive results of the NASA stewardship
it is "scary" to see shaky decisions tear down what has been accomplished.
Finally I apologize for being so long winded. I am sure there will be those who will attack me - not the message - but the last time I looked we still have some sembelence of Freedom of Speech. If you don't like what I have tried to say
- then just ignore it. I'm not all that talented in trying to get my point across, but I passionately believe that our steps
into space are one of the greatest, most positive moves that mankind has ever made. And to "blow it" will be one of the greatest tragedies in history. Period
This a "scary" moment for U.S. mnned spaceflight because it represents stepping into the unknown. The use of private
entities committed to supporting future manned flights is "scary" not because they can't do it, but because this may
be way for the adminstration to kill the space program entirely. It is possible the government simply underfunds the effort - blames the private contractors for not meeting goals they couldn't have because they never were funded in
the first place. A very clever way to end support for any space program. Don't tell us the money will be there in the coming years - make sure it IS !
It is also "scary" because it is sending a clear message to the world that America is NOT able to, or willing to support fut-
ure exploration. The country that starts backpedaling enters the "Portugal Spiral". Ask anyone which country was the
world power during Columbus' era and nearly everyone says Spain. It wasn't. Portugal was the "big dog" who dismissed Columbus' plan because they didn't need new routes to the spices. They controlled the existing ones, and why
waste money on this new exploration. Many other space age Columbus's are lurking in the mist, and now they have the
opportunity to pull off another "sputnik" on the U.S. It would be nice if the people who make these decisions will have to
explain why we are watching astronauts from any number of other countries landing on the Moon and setting up colonies there. It will be bad enough that we will have to be buying "rides" for our crews at higher rates than those charged the "civilian space flight participants". Let's just admit we are a "second-level" space flight country. And if we become "second-rate" in the eyes of the world, just think how this influences the actions of our enemies ? I'm sure there were those Romans who thought the barbarians were just an annoyance too.
America went to the Moon first. Now, we stand a high chance of being the last country to return to the Moon in the second wave of exploration. While we can find money to bail out private companies, we can't apparently find the will
and funding to more forward. This is a time when we need to create new trechnologies, new industries, and well paid jobs.
It seems that everytime a politician running for office comes to the space community and praises them, promising plenty
of future support - it is the kiss of death and they end up cutting space related activities. Politicians don't seem to be aware that once you disperse your team's talent it takes decades to rebuild that quality base again. In a country that already graduates too few engineers and scientists, this will have long term effects because employment opportunities will dry up limiting the employment opportunities for young graduates. The private contractors will be attempting to more with less as the profit margin becomes paramont.
NASA has provided far more than just space flight. It has provided quality opportunities for talented people. NASA has fostered talent, new opportunities to experiment with concepts, and created benefits far beyond just space flight. Can
the same be said for bailing out a private bank that was probably mismanaged in the first place ? Instead we should be
spending money on new initatives, creating new well paying positions, and working on things that will improve our future
and that of mankind. Saying that we are switching over to private contractors is nice - on paper. There is no backup if
something happens. The next decade will be interesting just as long as we move forward. I see the contractor's as the
scapegoats for those who want the system to fail because they not only don't support the space efforts, but they are
seeking ways to make it look bad. We will see, but when you look at all the positive results of the NASA stewardship
it is "scary" to see shaky decisions tear down what has been accomplished.
Finally I apologize for being so long winded. I am sure there will be those who will attack me - not the message - but the last time I looked we still have some sembelence of Freedom of Speech. If you don't like what I have tried to say
- then just ignore it. I'm not all that talented in trying to get my point across, but I passionately believe that our steps
into space are one of the greatest, most positive moves that mankind has ever made. And to "blow it" will be one of the greatest tragedies in history. Period
- Status
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