Phoenix surface mission

silylene old · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The media proves time and time again in science related subjects that it utterly cannot digest the difference between fact and fiction, between serious scientific debate and Hoaglandic-claptrap, and sadly even confuses the differentiation of 'theory', 'hypothesis', 'speculation', 'faith' and 'bullshit'.  Silyleneby itself; fine, a punch in my face, I'll duck next time.but then the wagons circled.....   Posted by thor06</DIV> Hello thor06.  Perhaps it was less of a 'punch', and more of a 'tap'.I am glad that you still have the optimism to believe that the media can report a science story well.  One time, I did too, and this was because the media was able to report a science story quite well.  (I am recalling the old Walter Cronkite days of the 60's, even the coverage of the Columbia disaster).  They say there is something healthy about being optimistic.However since that time, all of the newspapers, magazines and especially the TV media have laid over very significant fractions of their staff, closed entire reporting divisions and their foreign stations, due to financial pressures.  Now they rely very much upon wire services (who lack a significant science division), and if they are lucky (for example NYT or Newsweek still have one), their sole science reporter.So what happens now, in the 21st century is 'science by press release'.  Someone has a press release picked up by the wire services, or holds a press conference.  Reporters, who I really think are well-meaning, but unfortunately lacking a significant college background in science, ask questions, and/or re-write the wire service release into their own words.  I do think that they try to do well.  unfortunately, what they report is very often lacking in bigger picture context, lacking in historical context of prior findings, lacks explaining the impact very well, and perhaps more importantly lacks critical context, and perhaps most concerning, is embellished by editors with attention grabbing headlines.So what we end up getting is bad, bad science reporting again and again.  This leads the public into losing faith in the credibility of scientists.  For example, one day caffeine is bad;  6 months later it is good; 6 months later it is bad; etc. Or 'anti-oxidants' in your food are good;  they are great; they will extend you life; gotta make sure your diet is full of anti-oxidants...but the truth is that high quality refereed research in journals finds that anti-oxidants don't do squat  (I doubt you have read this, since it wasn't 'press released').  Or vitamin E is great;  everyone take vitamin E;  more and more vitamin E;  oops, vitamin E doesn't do anything and maybe even causes cancer.  Or most harmfully, the overheated media reporting implies that everything is 'cancer causing', and over reports the dangers of pesticides or air pollution or food hormones; to the extent that the media reporting context on real risk factors is so completely lost and the public is confused into thinking that the risks of tobacco smoke and pesticides or food hormones or air pollution are equivalent! - when truth is that the dangers of tobacco smoke outweigh any of these a hundredfold or more.More recently, the media failed to follow up on the dangers of that very stupid stunt the US military did blowing up a satellite in LEO.  As was reported in the SDC forums, that stunt released thousands of potential orbital projectiles into unintended longer duration higher altitude orbits which significantly endangered existing satellites.  However the media never reported this danger!  No follow up by them at all.  Actually, I suspect that the media swallowed a rather flimsy justification for this action from the government without much serious investigative reporting...then dropped the story because the NYT and Newsweek and ABC doesn't have enough science reporters to follow multiple science stories simultaneously.The excellent analysis of the importance of the soil studies on Mars which Jon posted earlier in this thread, and how they overturned four 'paradigms' of understanding, is exactly the science story that needs reporting.  It is interesting, and there is a lot of 'meat' in this analysis. I think it would even be a valuable teaching subject for a few days of high school science instruction.  Unfortunately, I have not seen one media report which has offered an analysis as succinct, understandable, or on-target.  The media reports I read mostly hyperventilate  about 'alkalinity' (a concept that I think 90+% of the public doesn't understand) and whether growing asparagus on mars is possible; and the next day these stories all disappear, never to be seen or referred to again in the popular press.I could go on and on.  Don't even get me into the subject of media investigative failures pre-Iraqi war, or during the Iraqi war.  The media failures in science aren't their only reporting failures.The orginal point is, if we scientists speculate to the media about martian life, then the media will report this like it was fact that martian life is discovered and thriving, and not speculation.  Then the media will forget by tomorrow.  However, the next time the public sees a desolate martian landscape photo, the public will realize there aren't any fields of asparagus growing in the polar swamps, and no obvious martian life.  Our credibility as scientists will be diminished, once more.  And next time we ask for funding, because we lack credibility, we won't get it.I do hope one day I can be sanguine about media science reporting.  I am still waiting. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function. </div> </div>

centsworth_II · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>....The caveat to all of this is we are looking at the top few cm of soil.  Things may well be different as we go deeper..... Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Isn't it precisely the top few centimeters that was suppose to be globally uniform and strongly oxidizing?  Wasn't the idea of going deeper to get past the uniform, oxidizing surface and look for more benign conditions below?  How ironic that we would now be waiting to see if conditions are harsher somewhere deeper down.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

solarflare · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What bullying and by whom?Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>The bullying was from the people who believe so much in a global model as demonstrated during the Viking mission. Take a scoop of contaminated topsoil oops no life Mars IS barren and dissolute world, if you don't believe me you don't know your science. Soon a whole regiment of know-it-alls weekend quarterbacks developed the same hypothesis; if you didn’t believe in their hypothesis then you didn’t know your science. If it wasn't for the persistent few, we would have never have gone back. What’s wrong with exploring the North Polar arctic region we knew there was water-ice there -- why did it take so long. My belief it was shortsighted rock hunters took over Mars exploration. Zubrin was right from the get-go. We known all along that Humans can live their. I here the naysayers saying but it is too cold. It is not as cold as the shadows of the international Space Station. Yea you would need some year around heat source, nuclear is the best source.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Jun 27, 2008

I agree silylene.We are NOT getting @ you Thor06. We have no problem with you at all. As silylene explained in a very long detailed post to you & hope you read it thoroughly (I just have), there are all of the explanations for why many of us on here take a dim view of media reporting on very specialist subjects, not only science, but mostly science due to the huge scope. Physics is often referred to as the Father of the Sciences, Astronomy as the Mother of the Sciences. There is a very good reason for that, & it is because of the enormous scope & sub disciplines they cover. All other sciences in one way or another are utterly dependent on one, the other or both. What silylene explained to you, the same is happening here in Britain unfortunately. For instance a while back, the BBC let go of a whole load of specialist reporters, in an attempt to lessen costs. Then we discover that many TV presenters, where being awarded enormous salaries & bonuses, the increase in which would have paid the salaries of many of the reporters who lost their jobs.The public (as a collective whole, rather than individuals) are largely to blame for this, due to the lack of interest in the world around them, but are more concerned about celebrities, footballers hair dos & crap like the daily soap operas & now we have 'Big Brother' on, yet another series, of no hopers, being put in a 'house', with umpteen cameras set up within the 'house', given 'tasks' to accomplish & then the viewing public, via a premium phoneline, ring in their choice of who gets chucked out that week. Also now on the digital channels, they have 'Big Brother Live', which shows the 'housemates' living in the 'house', also during the night, enabling insomniacs at home who shoud be in bed, watching people who are in bed or for night shift wrkers, etc. The schedules did not rely on this sort of crap before, now loads of extra channels, many running 24/7, what do they put on, to fill these hundreds of extra hours each week (yes I know there are only 168 hours per week) between them of extra airtime?   It's not you Thor06 that we have the problem with. What we have the problem with, is the way the media is run per se, with quality reporters spread very thinly. This leads to what can be in effect Chinese Whispers, were the original report from the scene is accurate, but it is diseminated, shared among managers, who need to create profits & inflate their own bonuses, will hype things up. Sometimes on here, we wonder if the mainstream media only go to the Cape to report on a Shuttle Launch, is because they hope it is going to blow up. That makes good headlines. Also we sometimes wonder that reporters were only at the EDL of Phoenix, because they hoped the landing would fail & that Phoenix would crash, again good headlines. It must have been a bit of a slow week when Phoenix landed successfully, & that the Space Shuttle Discovery launched safely. Good news like those items, do not sell papers or generate much news in the mainstream media.But remember, this is not aimed at you. Clearly, you are above that, very much above that, or you would not come here, but frequent some woo woo site instead. We're glad you are here, I am glad you are here. I was part of the international campaign to prevent the cancellation of Phoenix, so I personally get knarked off with troll comments  & inaccurate reporting from individuals as well as elements from the media. I do not have the same scale of scientific knowledge as many others on here do, though I'm not totally ignorant, volcanic planetary geology is my strongest point (my avatar the large volcanic moon of Jupiter, Io), but do have some meterology knowledge, Astronomy  & general planetary science & processes, hense IMO the urgency of getting that colour higher res Phoenix panorama down, so I can really evaluate the landing site in detail & perhaps find some clues as to what Phoenix has landed on & also in context with the TEGA & MECA results.This is my email address: andrew.brown1969@btinternet.com I have no problem putting it on here, as there is no one on here that I have a particular problem with. Please contact me if you wish.Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

nimbus · Jun 27, 2008

That's just not true.  The text on your browser on your computer monitor didn't reach out and punch you in the face.  Nor was anything told to you that I've seen meant that way.  Nor is it really that exagerated (admitedly a bit, but that's a quick dirty way of getting a point across by text, slight exageration) that the media is pretty much out of hand regarding accuracy in a lot of places, not the least of which the USA and/or science matters (as far as the general public is concerned in the latter case).Is that an insult to you, in particular, or a condemnation of anything the media may do (such as improve on the present state of things)?  Nope.  Nor do any of the pros that post on the forums here really condescend on the less informed...  In fact it's the opposite!  I've met a lot of very informative pros in my undergraduate work in a lot of labs in the western USA, and all the folks here seem to be at least as accomodating of just about any sort of inquiry (barring outright crackpottery!) you can throw at em... There's plenty of ways to take something on the net (that's told in an even-handed as-a-matter-of-fact sort of way) personaly, and you seem to have done it here.There's more to lose from sugarcoating something crappy as some sort of token "respect", than in being honest and transparent and calling a cat a cat. Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> The media is entirely clueless, which is why the headlines and stories fade quickly.The media is entirely clueless, which is why the headlines and stories fade quickly. The media is entirely clueless, which is why the headlines and stories fade quickly.over and over and over, it is not true,productive,helpfull, or constructive in any way. Oh and the bullying.... lets see I have been punched in the face, and now I'm being ignored.  For what?  Making a suggestion in a forum of discussion?  IMO if your not an "expert" in some field, your just a speed bump around here, chastised for not reading 1000s of posts that came before and ostrisized for not agreeing with those in the "clique".  "Jon and I can discuss the issues, because we have some idea of what we are talking about, whether we agree or not." Posted by thor06</DIV> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> The media is entirely clueless, which is why the headlines and stories fade quickly.The media is entirely clueless, which is why the headlines and stories fade quickly. The media is entirely clueless, which is why the headlines and stories fade quickly.over and over and over, it is not true,productive,helpfull, or constructive in any way. Oh and the bullying.... lets see I have been punched in the face, and now I'm being ignored.  For what?  Making a suggestion in a forum of discussion?  IMO if your not an "expert" in some field, your just a speed bump around here, chastised for not reading 1000s of posts that came before and ostrisized for not agreeing with those in the "clique".  "Jon and I can discuss the issues, because we have some idea of what we are talking about, whether we agree or not." Posted by thor06</DIV> Hey, chill out dude. No insult was intended at anyone here at all. The insult was intended at the clueless media. I am trying to remedy that by writing article for my local newspaper.The media is clueless which is true, and productive in that we can try and change that. Anyone here knows more that 90% of the media, because we all are paying attention. You're being hypersensitive if you thought I was talking about anyone here at SDC. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hey, chill out dude. No insult was intended at anyone here at all. The insult was intended at the clueless media. I am trying to remedy that by writing article for my local newspaper.The media is clueless which is true, and productive in that we can try and change that. Anyone here knows more that 90% of the media, because we all are paying attention. You're being hypersensitive if you thought I was talking about anyone here at SDC. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>You know what?  That's an OUTSTANDING idea Meteorwayne!  Writing an article for a local paper!  Brilliant.  There are plenty of people here, some who even have enough time, who could write an excellent article for their local paper! Heck, some papers would love to have something half-intelligible to readers as far as science goes.  If it's free, they'll love it even more.

We've got eggheaded scientists, squint-eyed researchers, grimy gearheads, steely-eyed rocket jocks, pasty skinned stargazers and sweaty engineers who'd easily be capable of writing an exceptional article for a local paper. Heck, even an article for a highschool, local college or community paper would be helpful to get the word out. Great idea! /applause(Note: I do recall Jon giving an interview as well so mustn't forget to say "GREAT JOB Jon!"  Great job Jon!!) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

3488 · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>You know what?  That's an OUTSTANDING idea Meteorwayne!  Writing an article for a local paper!  Brilliant.  There are plenty of people here, some who even have enough time, who could write an excellent article for their local paper! Heck, some papers would love to have something half-intelligible to readers as far as science goes.  If it's free, they'll love it even more.

We've got eggheaded scientists, squint-eyed researchers, grimy gearheads, steely-eyed rocket jocks, pasty skinned stargazers and sweaty engineers who'd easily be capable of writing an exceptional article for a local paper. Heck, even an article for a highschool, local college or community paper would be helpful to get the word out. Great idea! /applause(Note: I do recall Jon giving an interview as well so mustn't forget to say "GREAT JOB Jon!"  Great job Jon!!) Posted by a_lost_packet_</DIV>Absolutely, a great idea.Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Absolutely, a great idea.Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV>Hey, NASA has it's Community Outreach Program... There's no reason why SDC can't have one.

<div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

thor06 · Jun 28, 2008

Silylene and Andrew well said indeed, both of you!  Heartfelt and passionate, even touching on the real dangers to our democracy.  Media consolidation and the centralization of news gathering is the culpret.  Our enemy is ourselves, through the Presidents(both democrat and republican) appointments to the FCC, and the actions they take on our behalf.  The profit motive and newsworthyness rarely coincide, except for ....you guessed it death and destruction.  I'm getting tired so, let me finish with a thank you.  Silylene and Andrew I will sleep better because of your thoughtfull posts.  I am hopefull about the future.  I am also pragmatic, so I can't change the game by myself, but I can learn it well enough to beat it(use it to NASA's advantage).  It is also why I chose to focus on NASA TV.  There are millions of people around the world who want to follow NASA.  If the media won't do the job right, well we have our own TV channel.  Lets put it to good use and get it proper funding.(outside the NASA budget) A nonprofit foundation of sorts is the current plan.Eric  thejournalist1990@yahoo.com  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> www.watchnasatv.com ONE PERCENT FOR NASA! </div>

thor06 · Jun 28, 2008

Hehe, I got MW to say "chill out dude". <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />Ok, I'm chilled, and good idea about the article.  There are a lot of good reporters out there who have a clue and are as upset as we are at the state of things. Thats all, I'm hypersensitive about this subject for a reason.  They are my colleagues/friends.  We take a lot of punishment/bashing and yet it(media consolidation) is out of our control. Eric  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> www.watchnasatv.com ONE PERCENT FOR NASA! </div>

rlb2 · Jun 28, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>solarflare - Thanks for all your up-to-date reporting. rlb2 turned me onto tardigrades years ago when I was on this board, before the last two crashes. This is something that can survive on the surface of Mars that I pulled out of the encyclopedia about tardigrades.</DIV>Tardigrades are fascinating life forms aren't they, I’ve been talking about them since this board was started in the 90's. It’s good to hear from you but I don't remember solarflare as one of the original screenames? I'm kind of hiding from this thread right now because of all the media bashing going on. I will be over here where I will be posting some more images of Opportunity and Spirit. Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars.shttp://www.space.com/common/community/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3ac7921f8b-94ec-454a-9715-3770aac6e2caForum%3ad148ee4c-9f4c-47f9-aa95-7a42941583c6Discussion%3a436f90e5-d3e9-4c9d-ad0c-2ae4473dfbd0&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0Images of Mars Part IV Victoria Crater/Home Plate and MRO http://www.space.com/common/community/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3ac7921f8b-94ec-454a-9715-3770aac6e2caForum%3ad148ee4c-9f4c-47f9-aa95-7a42941583c6Discussion%3a8a873758-309b-4c1d-b017-c2f0d284b8dc&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0For all the people who has posted that I couldn't answer right away I'm sorry this thread is going to fast for me. I am limited to the time I can allocate to this board because of my work schedule. I enjoyed talking to all of you.Here are some new color images I processed from the raw images images at Opportunity. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/7/ca74182a-559b-4038-a74b-e34456cd7e3d.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="197" height="256" /> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/4/f85f6661-36a4-4ae8-844f-638dc6a8d246.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="187" height="227" /> <img style="width:188px;height:231px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/1/1a204852-7e76-4dba-a102-df700e62a429.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="201" height="246" /> <img style="width:187px;height:253px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/4/cfe6c70f-f812-4d52-a4c4-ce87d6440795.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="180" height="251" /> <img style="width:185px;height:255px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/1/8ff0c138-1fac-4adb-91f5-7be50e30cc7b.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="206" height="268" /> <img style="width:187px;height:266px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/9/3bbcbc3a-d7aa-4657-a94d-5a39e20b51b6.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="186" height="253" />   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

JonClarke · Jun 28, 2008

First of all Thor, tanks for responding in detail, it was most helpful, and I think the discussion has progressed as a result.My question is, perhaps given your media experience, can you give us some tips on how to handle/write for/respond to the media?I think it is important for the rest of us to realise the constraints that media people have to operate under.  Onstraints of time, length, comprehensibility, and marketability.  Not to mention competitive pressures from other organisations.I have had a lot of interaction with the media over Mars stuff, and generally people on the ground have been very good.  Errors are normally brought in higher up in the food chain.  In my experience weekly and monthly media is best, followed by newspaers and radios.  TV is the most diffficult and frustrating.  It can take a whole day out of a busy program to film a 5 minute story.regardsJon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

thor06 · Jun 28, 2008

Before I type another... Thanks rlb2 for the photos, and I'll have a nice long look at some of those interesting worms.  As you may know, IMVHO I'd be suprised if we don't find life.  Phoenix is moving us nicely down the path of making that discovery.  Jon yes, breakthrough. My thanks to you and the other posters here.The home of NASA and the media discussion can be here; http://www.space.com/common/community/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3ac7921f8b-94ec-454a-9715-3770aac6e2caForum%3adf48c1bf-d632-43c0-8862-72680776c33aDiscussion%3a54a42fff-4459-41a1-a99f-828e24c1c841&plckCurrentPage=0&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0 or where ever you think is best. Yikes is there a way to fix that link...I'll reply there.eric  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> www.watchnasatv.com ONE PERCENT FOR NASA! </div>

JonClarke · Jun 28, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Posted by solarflareThe bullying was from the people who believe so much in a global model as demonstrated during the Viking mission. </DIV>Over generalising from limited data is not bullying.  So I ask for a second time, what evidence do you have of bullying behaviour?Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Take a scoop of contaminated topsoil oops no life Mars IS barren and dissolute world, if you don't believe me you don't know your science. </DIV>What top soil sample was contaminated?Who said that if you disagreed with them you did not know your science>Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Soon a whole regiment of know-it-alls weekend quarterbacks developed the same hypothesis; if you didn’t believe in their hypothesis then you didn’t know your science. </DIV>Again the "weekend quaterbacks" were wrong but had what were valid reasons at the time.Who said that if you disagreed with them you did not know your science? Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If it wasn't for the persistent few, we would have never have gone back. </DIV>Who wre the "persistant few" and what is your basis for saying we would not have gone back to Mars without them?Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What’s wrong with exploring the North Polar arctic region we knew there was water-ice there -- why did it take so long. </DIV>Who said that there was anything wrong with exploring the north polar regions?  Why didd it take so long?  Priorities, budgets,  technical issues, and mission lead times.Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>My belief it was shortsighted rock hunters took over Mars exploration. </DIV>In what way are "rock hunters" short sighted?In what way did they "take over" Mars exploration?Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Zubrin was right from the get-go. </DIV>What's Zubrin got to do with Phoenix or Mars Science?Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>We known all along that Humans can live their. </DIV>How is this relevant?Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I here the naysayers saying but it is too cold. It is not as cold as the shadows of the international Space Station. Yea you would need some year around heat source, nuclear is the best source.  </DIV>What is the relevance of this to Phoenix? Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

JonClarke · Jun 28, 2008

Your guess as good as mine as to what is happening!http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001528/ <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

freya · Jun 28, 2008

I don't wish to get off topic here (erm, I think it is supposed to be about Phoenix post landing activities), so I wont. Speculation about Mars life, past/present can be discussed elsewhere.A fascinating topic, all on its own.Gaz  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 28, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Your guess as good as mine as to what is happening!http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001528/ Posted by jonclarke</DIV> Wow, now that is interesting!!All sorts of speculative ideas pop up. It'll be fun to think about! BTW, I thought Emily's 3 questions at Thurdays teleconference were the 3 best asked during the whole event! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

solarflare · Jun 28, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Over generalising from limited data is not bullying.  So I ask for a second time, what evidence do you have of bullying behaviour?What top soil sample was contaminated?Who said that if you disagreed with them you did not know your science>Again the "weekend quaterbacks" were wrong but had what were valid reasons at the time.Who said that if you disagreed with them you did not know your science? Who wre the "persistant few" and what is your basis for saying we would not have gone back to Mars without them?Who said that there was anything wrong with exploring the north polar regions?  Why didd it take so long?  Priorities, budgets,  technical issues, and mission lead times.In what way are "rock hunters" short sighted?In what way did they "take over" Mars exploration?What's Zubrin got to do with Phoenix or Mars Science?How is this relevant?What is the relevance of this to Phoenix? Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>You just expressed the bullying attitude I was talking about, some of it was similar to what you quoted before. You keep changing your colors all the time, just like you did in the last several posts. I can see why you got kicked out of other boards. I don’t want to waist anymore of your time or mine so let’s stop this silly little bating game of yours. Byyyyyyyyyy   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Jun 28, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Wow, now that is interesting!!All sorts of speculative ideas pop up. It'll be fun to think about! BTW, I thought Emily's 3 questions at Thurdays teleconference were the 3 best asked during the whole event! Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Great stuff Wayne, I agree. Like the mystery of the growning 'mould' on the Phoenix leg. I still its ice forming on the leg. That leg only gets sunlight at around midnight, rest of the time is in shadow. It will be cold. Any guesses, -100 C????????? Its likely cold enough for the accumulation of dry ice??????????????Lovely mystery though, but what ever it is, does not appear to affect Phoenix in any way.Sol 31 Phoenix Lander leg, with accumulations. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/4/8531677f-751b-416d-949e-377014f98395.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Emily Lakdawalla is always on the ball, without fail, always. Leon Enwright from the Irish Times is another one who asks decent intelligent questions & is on the ball also. I quite like it when both get the chance to ask questions. Sol 32 looking 72.8 Azm, ene. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/14/08e23db4-1852-49b1-8e5f-75ea1f3dd230.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  To me looks like some 'layering' or at least some tendency of some stomes to appear layered.Andrew Brown.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

fractionofadot · Jun 28, 2008

Nice to see a mention of Leo Enright an Irish journalist

I agree that he and Emily have been responsible for some great questions I think the journalists that more often than not ask the good questions, have a general interest in space exploration, unrelated to their profession. They're like us, interested observers and they wouldn't have to be receiving a paycheque in order to research the subject.The best journalists in any given field have a passion for their subject. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

voyagerwsh · Jun 28, 2008

One of the most exciting science aspects from the Phoenix Lander, contrary to widely believed in previous results that martian soil is acidic. The alkaline (pH between 8 and 9) nature of the soil inspcetd by the Phoenix suprises many scientists. Also, its mineralogy is very similar to terrestrial soil, like the upper valley in Anartica, the Mars soil inspected is very life supportive.

thor06 · Jun 28, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Your guess as good as mine as to what is happening!http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001528/ Posted by jonclarke</DIV> That gets a wow!  Interesting where it forms, whatever it is.  Near the bottom of the leg you can see a circle shaped depression (ring) that becomes one of the "nodules".  Hmm.. is it a depression or a chunk?  Anyway it's a very selective formation. Frost seems logical, but I really don't know much about frost formation.facinating!  thanks Jon eric   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> www.watchnasatv.com ONE PERCENT FOR NASA! </div>

3488 · Jun 28, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Nice to see a mention of Leo Enright an Irish journalist

I agree that he and Emily have been responsible for some great questions I think the journalists that more often than not ask the good questions, have a general interest in space exploration, unrelated to their profession. They're like us, interested observers and they wouldn't have to be receiving a paycheque in order to research the subject.The best journalists in any given field have a passion for their subject. Posted by fractionofadot</DIV>I agree fractofadot. Loe Enright & Emily are really very passionate about this &  Emily definately & Leo more than likley have a good deal of background knowledge in the subject & really care. It really does show at the Press Conferences.  Just a tip off, MER B Opportunity is returning fascinating stuff, check Sols 1570 & 1571.Phoenix Sol 33 data coming in now. Dodo - Goldilocks trench, Sol 33. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/3/59111589-194d-484e-a35f-c974b636faef.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 28, 2008

Thought the 1,000 post on this thread should be devoted to a very good freind & worthy contributor to these boards, who due to being between houses (may have found somewhere suitable at long last & moving house is a real punishment for the boughs of hell, I know, I've done it myself several times, something I avoid like the plague), for quite some now, has not been able to join in much, Anthmartian. I think that we must not forget him & I post a few fantastic images from his site on here. I for one cannot wait for him to return here & for his material to be seen alongside rlb2, spin0 & Swampcat.Anthmartian image from Phoenix 1. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/8/1f9f8b50-c7e0-4447-8861-d47e04dbfb11.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Anthmartian image 2 from Phoenix. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/10/71a7ef32-b1bc-4ea7-8a96-84b0b320090e.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/2583900786_90300b5cb2_o_d.jpgAnthmartian image 3 from Phoenix.<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/11/bfe6d746-9c11-43e7-abae-90f300191f79.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

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