Phoenix surface mission

JonClarke · Jun 26, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Not much news in the teleconference.Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Not much news?????  This is Mars shaking stuff.  From MECAAlakline (and strongly alkaline) soil, not the acidic soils seen elsewhere.  So much for the gobal acidy models in all its variants.Low salinity (100's to 1000's of ppm).  So much for global hypersalinity of 100.000's of ppm and global models of Mars too salty for life.Relatively mild oxidation potential.  So much for global destruction of organics through soil oxidants.  The chances of finding organics here are much increased.The sounds you hear are falling paradigms.  At least three fell at that press confeence.  What a nice whooshing noise they make as they go past!Also TEGA results confirm there are water bearing minerals in the soil.  Too warm for ice, but perhaps sulphates or clays, or iron hydroxides.  Which hydrated minerals I guess will be come clearer from more detailed analysis. No report of carbonates yet, but with pH of 8 to 9 I would expect them. This is great stuff!Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Jun 26, 2008

Thank you very much to both Wayne & Jon for the teleconference updates.Fascinating stuff. It would seem as if the salinity of Mars varies from place to place, this location appears to be not too saline at all. IIRC did MER B Opportunity in Meridiani Planum detect super saline deposits, fueling the speculation of the soil being poisoned through excessive salinity? By the looks of it TEGA did not fail in contrary to rumours on the NASA Phoenix Blog that it did. That is excellent news. It is great to see also, that good progress in being made on the Mission Success Panorama, very important for areomorpholgical & areological studies of the landing area.Quite like this image released today, the one of the true colour of the soil on the lip of the scoop. With the combining of the RBG Leds & the scoop colour is known precisely, it really does show how red that soil is. Very striking.Large image with context monochrome image. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/12/8b541591-bcfc-4660-ac80-604d35f08d18.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Large Image.<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/8/5704e245-344a-407e-a85c-b963d13cbada.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Sol 31 images coming & guess what has been imaged again?Holy Cow. Sol 31. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/10/683d5a1c-48ab-4681-9a9b-52998f03b953.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Sol 5 image of Holy Cow. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/12/5331d3dd-5632-4f09-9cfe-6b62f11f7b90.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Have not looked properly yet to see if there have been any changes within the past 26 Sols.  Cursory look suggests no. It does not look as if there has been any sublimation. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

trailrider · Jun 26, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Not much news?????  This is Mars shaking stuff.  From MECAAlakline (and strongly alkaline) soil, not the acidic soils seen elsewhere.  So much for the gobal acidy models in all its variants.Low salinity (100's to 1000's of ppm).  So much for global hypersalinity of 100.000's of ppm and global models of Mars too salty for life.Relatively mild oxidation potential.  So much for global destruction of organics through soil oxidants.  The chances of finding organics here are much increased.The sounds you hear are falling paradigms.  At least three fell at that press confeence.  What a nice whooshing noise they make as they go past!Also TEGA results confirm there are water bearing minerals in the soil.  Too warm for ice, but perhaps sulphates or clays, or iron hydroxides.  Which hydrated minerals I guess will be come clearer from more detailed analysis. No report of carbonates yet, but with pH of 8 to 9 I would expect them. This is great stuff!Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>But I like strawberries and don't particularly care for asperagrass!  Looks like future colonists will have their choice, and may be able to raise crops (under a dome)...provided we have the will to go there eventually!  Um, what kind of soil does rice require, other than a lot of water? Can you raise soy sauce...uh, beans, in any of this stuff? Just in case the first colonists are not from the Western Hemisphere!Ad Luna! Ad Ares! Ad Astra!

3488 · Jun 26, 2008

Quite like these from the Sol 31 download.Highest resolution yet in this direction in the SW. Note the exceptionally dark larger rocks.Sol 31. Azm 241.54 deg. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/13/f70d7885-2369-4d07-addd-254e1522bd7b.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Crop & enlargement of dark rocks from above image. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/3/204b4414-b03c-4194-b307-4df92b3249ea.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Azm 188.39 degrees. Sol 31. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/5/fe0c0c7d-ec6c-47b9-852c-24a6daab5f73.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Also the highest resolution yet of this patch of ground to the south of Phoenix. Alt -16.93 Azm 188.14 deg.http://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/-16.93 alt 188.14 Azm Sol 31 Phoenix.html<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/7/8f353b1c-9b80-4e24-b73e-b565aaaa1d9f.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Crop & blowup of a knarled up piece of rock from the above image. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/10/a37c4fa0-e8c5-4b99-ba73-bd8b32d9d874.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Smoothed rock in a small depression. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/4/6/84e971dc-6a58-4796-b6d6-aaf9fe8d1627.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

rlb2 · Jun 26, 2008

Jon- The sounds you hear are falling paradigms.  At least three fell at that press confeence.  What a nice whooshing noise they make as they go past!rlb2 - That’s a great sound isn't it?  The waiting for the results was well worth it. Mars now is looking more earth-like with different geological models for different places. That still will be hard for some people here to take. To all the other people who stuck their occupational necks out like NASA’s geologist David McKay, Allan Hills, Thomas-Kperta for the controversial Martian rock ALH 84001, Martian bacteria, this one for you. Beer in hand held high… Now it’s only a matter of time before the rest of the misconceptions are shattered...."This soil appears to be a close analog to surface soils found in the upper dry valleys in Antarctica," Kouvanes said. "The alkalinity of the soil at this location is definitely striking. At this specific location, one-inch into the surface layer, the soil is very basic, with a pH of between eight and nine. We also found a variety of components of salts that we haven't had time to analyze and identify yet, but that include magnesium, sodium, potassium and chloride."   "This is more evidence for water because salts are there. We also found a reasonable number of nutrients, or chemicals needed by life as we know it," Kounaves said. "Over time, I've come to the conclusion that the amazing thing about Mars is not that it's an alien world, but that in many aspects, like mineralogy, it's very much like Earth."  Another analytical Phoenix instrument, the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), has baked its first soil sample to 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Never before has a soil sample from another world been baked to such high heat. TEGA scientists have begun analyzing the gases released at a range of temperatures to identify the chemical make-up of soil and ice. Analysis is a complicated, weeks-long process.   But "the scientific data coming out of the instrument have been just spectacular," said Phoenix co-investigator William Boynton of the University of Arizona, lead TEGA scientist."At this point, we can say that the soil has clearly interacted with water in the past. We don't know whether that interaction occurred in this particular area in the northern polar region, or whether it might have happened elsewhere and blown up to this area as dust."  http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phoenix-20080626.html    <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

paulscottanderson · Jun 26, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Not much news?????  This is Mars shaking stuff.  From MECAAlakline (and strongly alkaline) soil, not the acidic soils seen elsewhere.  So much for the gobal acidy models in all its variants.Low salinity (100's to 1000's of ppm).  So much for global hypersalinity of 100.000's of ppm and global models of Mars too salty for life.Relatively mild oxidation potential.  So much for global destruction of organics through soil oxidants.  The chances of finding organics here are much increased.The sounds you hear are falling paradigms.  At least three fell at that press confeence.  What a nice whooshing noise they make as they go past!Also TEGA results confirm there are water bearing minerals in the soil.  Too warm for ice, but perhaps sulphates or clays, or iron hydroxides.  Which hydrated minerals I guess will be come clearer from more detailed analysis. No report of carbonates yet, but with pH of 8 to 9 I would expect them. This is great stuff!Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>I agree. I also tried to remind people that the highly acidic conditions found previously in other locations were not necessarily planet-wide, as evidenced by the orbiters. Now here is some preliminary additional vindication!Paul <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -----------------The Meridiani Journal a chronicle of planetary exploration web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

l3p3r · Jun 26, 2008

I can't believe this isn't all over the news... Surely this is just as good if not better than the confirmation of ice???  So exciting!  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Jun 26, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I can't believe this isn't all over the news... Surely this is just as good if not better than the confirmation of ice???  So exciting!  Posted by l3p3r</DIV>This SHOULD be all over the news.  Soil on another planet capable of supporting life as we know it and, with a little help, probably able to support Earth life as well?  Remarkable!  It's definitely a "Big Deal!"  There's a very, very small list of things that would be better news than this. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

docm · Jun 27, 2008

Not too many reporters, even "science" reporters, have the insight to see the significance of this discovery.  As such you won't see it in the MSM until everyone online is screaming to the high heavens.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

efron_24 · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I can't believe this isn't all over the news... Surely this is just as good if not better than the confirmation of ice???  So exciting!  Posted by l3p3r</DIV> I do not know on what part of the Earth you are.. but it IS all over the news in Europe..headline news.. !! and the first topic in the News bulletins.. just like the fact that one part of Mars is one big crater made it to all news stations yesterday..   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

JonClarke · Jun 27, 2008

In Australia too.  I was rung up and did a 5 minute interview for the leading national evening radio current affairs.  show.  The subliming ice was big news too a couple of days ago.  It was probably too late for today's papers, but there will probably be something in tomorrow's. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

bearack · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>In Australia too.  I was rung up and did a 5 minute interview for the leading national evening radio current affairs.  show.  The subliming ice was big news too a couple of days ago.  It was probably too late for today's papers, but there will probably be something in tomorrow's. Posted by jonclarke</DIV> This is exciting and historic.  This should quite some of the lander nay sayers for at least a day.....I hope!  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /> </div>

3488 · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>In Australia too.  I was rung up and did a 5 minute interview for the leading national evening radio current affairs.  show.  The subliming ice was big news too a couple of days ago.  It was probably too late for today's papers, but there will probably be something in tomorrow's. Posted by jonclarke</DIV>I bet you enjoyed that Jon. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />There's been precious little here in Britain, unless it has been on the BBC One O'Clock News this afternoon or the breakfast show this morning (I'm at work so would not have seen either). I have just checked out the BBC Website & apart of a couple of short articles, there is nothing.Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I don't ever want to see NASA, JPL, and the PI's here associated with 'bad science'.  They should stick to the facts and not speculation.  I oppose any attempt to undermine their strongly established credibility in order to manipulate the ignorant masses.The media proves time and time again in science related subjects that it utterly cannot digest the difference between fact and fiction, between serious scientific debate and Hoaglandic-claptrap, and sadly even confuses the differentiation of 'theory', 'hypothesis', 'speculation', 'faith' and 'bullshit'.'Worms' and 'biogenic methane', 'bunnies' and the famous Martian 'sandworm' are fine to discuss in forums in which everyone wants to dream and fanatacize and speculate without caution, but this should be left out of the media.  Feed the media facts and well-established theory, and nothing else. Posted by silylene</DIV>  I agree with silylene, a full 100% about the fact that the media screw up big time when it comes to reporting science. Wayne too has picked up on this & it is something that has not escaped me either. The media pump out so much 'bullshit' that we are literally drowning in it. However, now is a good time to report this as there is direct proof, 100% conformed, regarding the suitability of the Martian soil to grow certain crops & also the new finding on the giant impact, carving out much of the Northern Hemisphere on Mars. When there is proof that can stand up to peer reviews like these two findings, then yes, it must be reported through the general media, so it is great to see that it is being reported widely throughout much of the world, by the looks of it. Hopefully, it will get more people interested in Space Exploration & in science (where certainly educational standards have slipped up very badly), but I dunno though, all the time celebrity & that crap Big Brother, (a group of pathetic losers living in a 'house' & being assigned 'tasks' & getting voted out one by one by the viewing brain dead chav public), etc hog the lime light I think unfortunately science will continue to be seen as 'uncool' & something for boring old farts.Below are two more sol 31 images of Holy Cow. These were released very late here last night, certainly after I went to bed & that was not early, coz I was waiting to see if any more interesting images were to be released. Obviously there were, but it was rather late.Holy Cow, Sol 35. <a href="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Forums/#" title="Click to view a larger photo" onclick="return gSiteLife.LoadForumPage('ForumImage', 'plckPhotoId', '8b28d013-1df3-43b3-9330-4808dd5ef90a', 'plckRedirectUrl', gSiteLife.EscapeValue(window.location.href));"><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/3/8b28d013-1df3-43b3-9330-4808dd5ef90a.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></a>Holy Cow, Sol 31, longer exposure. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/9/5fff0284-4335-4fed-a9fd-c0073af5a1de.Medium.jpg" alt="" />I do not think any of the lumps have changed since first being seen of Sol 5.Andrew Brown.http://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/lg_7984.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This is exciting and historic.  This should quite some of the lander nay sayers for at least a day.....I hope!  Posted by bearack</DIV>Too damn right Tim.I too was getting bloody fed up with those who were complaining. This is a great mission, historic for more than just this reason alone & I am certainly enjoying it immensely. It was well worth getting involved with the campaign to prevent Phoenix (former Mars Surveyor 2001 Lander) from getting permanently axed.This has been well worth all of mental & emotional energy that took.Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

solarflare · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I do not know on what part of the Earth you are.. but it IS all over the news in Europe..headline news.. !! and the first topic in the News bulletins.. just like the fact that one part of Mars is one big crater made it to all news stations yesterday..   Posted by efron_24</DIV>Yes now the bullying in the past by people here will now subside for a while, they will never go away. Touching the surface in dry UV unprotected areas is a thing of the past however this area is partially UV unprotected and it shows these results. Imagine what you will find 1 meter down. There are three areas life exists on earth -- air, water and soil. There's two places on Mars we may find life that is protected by the high UV's, two out of three is not bad.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Philotas · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I bet you enjoyed that Jon. There's been precious little here in Britain, unless it has been on the BBC One O'Clock News this afternoon or the breakfast show this morning (I'm at work so would not have seen either). I have just checked out the BBC Website & apart of a couple of short articles, there is nothing. I agree with silylene, a full 100% about the fact that the media screw up big time when it comes to reporting science. Wayne too has picked up on this & it is something that has not escaped me either. The media pump out so much 'bullshit' that we are literally drowning in it. However, now is a good time to report this as there is direct proof, 100% conformed, regarding the suitability of the Martian soil to grow certain crops & also the new finding on the giant impact, carving out much of the Northern Hemisphere on Mars. When there is proof that can stand up to peer reviews like these two findings, then yes, it must be reported through the general media, so it is great to see that it is being reported widely throughout much of the world, by the looks of it. Hopefully, it will get more people interested in Space Exploration & in science (where certainly educational standards have slipped up very badly), but I dunno though, all the time celebrity & that crap Big Brother, (a group of pathetic losers living in a 'house' & being assigned 'tasks' & getting voted out one by one by the viewing brain dead chav public), etc hog the lime light I think unfortunately science will continue to be seen as 'uncool' & something for boring old farts.Below are two more sol 31 images of Holy Cow. These were released very late here last night, certainly after I went to bed & that was not early, coz I was waiting to see if any more interesting images were to be released. Obviously there were, but it was rather late.Holy Cow, Sol 35.Holy Cow, Sol 31, longer exposure.I do not think any of the lumps have changed since first being seen of Sol 5.Andrew Brown. Posted by 3488</DIV> What's the stuff on the lander legs? Is it supposed to be there; has it ever been mentioned? It was present in the first Holy Cow images also. BTW, some serious digging that the Phoenix has done by now in the right hand side trenches <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />:http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images/gallery/lg_7857.jpg <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

solarflare · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> I agree with silylene, a full 100% about the fact that the media screw up big time when it comes to reporting science. Wayne too has picked up on this & it is something that has not escaped me either. The media pump out so much 'bullshit' that we are literally drowning in it. However, now is a good time to report this as there is direct proof, 100% conformed, regarding the suitability of the Martian soil to grow certain crops & also the new finding on the giant impact, carving out much of the Northern Hemisphere on Mars.  Posted by 3488</DIV>What about the fact that the entire premise of this report is that some of there models were wrong they didn’t dig deep enough everywhere else in the last 40 years. My vote is for the media, they are far more accurate than all the scientist who have been modeling Mars wrong all these years. Once you have a acceptable false model everyone runs and builds on it, those who disagree get bullied and harassed.    <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

nimbus · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What about the fact that the entire premise of this report is that all the models were wrong they didn’t dig deep enough everywhere else in the last 40 years. My vote is for the media they are far more accurate than all the scientist who have been modeling Mars wrong all these years. Once you have a acceptable false model everyone runs  and builds on it, those who disagree get bullied and harassed.   Posted by solarflare</DIV>Huh? The same media that 8 times out of 10 can't come up with semi-interesting/pertinent questions, or questions that are already answered with a minimum of homework? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

solarflare · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Huh? The same media that 8 times out of 10 can't come up with semi-interesting/pertinent questions, or questions that are already answered with a minimum of homework? Posted by nimbus</DIV>That’s true but that’s more accurate than the accepted model. What about the Paradigm shift Jon talked about, well there weren't a paradigm there to shift all these wasted years because of the failure to dig deep below the surface to find out. Humans could be on Mars today if only they looked in the right areas 30 years ago. There is a whole human life support system at the phoenix site.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

nimbus · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That’s true but that’s more accurate than the accepted model. What about the Paradigm shift Jon talked about, well there weren't a paradigm there to shift all these wasted years because of the failure to dig deep below the surface to find out. Humans could be on Mars today if only they looked in the right areas 30 years ago. There is a whole human life support system at the phoenix site.  Posted by solarflare</DIV>And it would have been thanks to the media, more than to the scientists?  Aside the fact that that's a false dichotomy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

solarflare · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>And it would have been thanks to the media, more than to the scientists?  Aside the fact that that's a false dichotomy. Posted by nimbus</DIV>No I didn't say that. Most people blame the media for their own mistakes, that’s a true premise.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

abq_farside · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This SHOULD be all over the news.  Soil on another planet capable of supporting life as we know it and, with a little help, probably able to support Earth life as well?  Remarkable!  It's definitely a "Big Deal!"  There's a very, very small list of things that would be better news than this. Posted by a_lost_packet_</DIV> I saw this Test shows Mars Soil has Nutrients for Life yesterday on MSNBC.com front page.  Sadly it has fallen off and is now found in the science section.  I'm afraid that is probably a reflection of the general public and their interest in the space program.  The upcoming presidential election and celebrity news dominate their time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Don't let who you are keep you from becoming who you want to be! </div>

trumptor · Jun 27, 2008

Well, now that we know Mars' NORTH pole is very similar to our SOUTH pole, I guess that shot of the penguin running around seems much more plausible. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ______________Caution, I may not know what I'm talking about. </div>

nimbus · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>No I didn't say that. Most people blame the media for their own mistakes, that’s a true premise.   Posted by solarflare</DIV>I still can't tell what you meant, but in any case the media certainly doesn't have a larger sum credibility than scientists.  And like I said, that's a false dichotomy.  There's probably about as much variance found among scientists and reporters as between the two fields. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

solarflare · Jun 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I still can't tell what you meant, but in any case the media certainly doesn't have a larger sum credibility than scientists.  And like I said, that's a false dichotomy.  There's probably about as much variance found among scientists and reporters as between the two fields. Posted by nimbus</DIV>The key word in this is accuracy of the scientists model meaning in the previous model of high salinity, and acidity globally.-----------------------------------------------------Penguins can survive the UV and the cold in the Antarctica, but barely if they all huddle together, On Mars lack of much of an atmosphere doesn’t help. The UV radiation is much more intense. It gets much colder in the winter time at the Martian North Pole however subsurface life a meter down or more in the soil has a good chance of surviving. Iceworms. Nematodes as discussed could make their home there if they find carbon. Look up tardigrades, they could survive on the surface.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

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