Phoenix surface mission

dagas · Jul 24, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Getting close, preparations almost complete.Time to shove some ice in those instruments!July 24, 2008 -- NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander has groomed the bottom of a shallow trench to prepare for collecting a sample to be analyzed from a hard subsurface layer where the soil may contain frozen water. Images received Thursday morning confirmed that the lander's robotic arm had scraped the top of the hard layer clean during activities of Phoenix's 58th Martian day, or sol, corresponding to overnight Wednesday to Thursday. The Phoenix team developed commands for sending to the spacecraft Thursday to complete two remaining preparations necessary before collecting a sample and delivering it to the lander's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA). One part of the plan for Sol 59 (overnight Thursday to Friday) would assure that the scoop is empty of any soil collected earlier. Another would complete a final cleaning of any volatile materials from the oven that will receive the sample. In the past two weeks, the team has refined techniques for using a powered rasp on the back of the arm's scoop to cut and collect shavings of material from the bottom of the trench. The trench, informally named "Snow White," is 4 to 5 centimeters deep (about 2 inches), about 23 centimeters wide (9 inches), and about 60 centimeters long (24 inches) long. "The rasped material ends up in the back of the scoop, and we have to transfer it to the front through a pathway. That takes a series of arm moves to be sure the material gets through the pathway," said Robert Bonitz of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manager for the robotic arm. "The reason we're doing it today is we want to be sure the pathway is free of any material collected previously before we collect the next sample for delivery to TEGA." The planned activity would repeat the series of pathway-clearing moves twice, and check visually to be sure the front of the scoop is empty. It is also important to get the background counts as low as possible in TEGA's evolved-gas analyzer, which receives vapors emitted from the oven. The instrument was heated repeatedly before launch and during the flight to Mars to drive off any volatile material in it, such as water and carbon-dioxide gases that tend to stick on surfaces. It got another heating on Sol 58. "The baking last night was to remove background volatiles stuck on the walls of the instrument," said William Boynton of the University of Arizona, Tucson, lead scientist for TEGA. "What we're planning today is pumping out any gas we might have released with the baking." Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> im an ipod fan, and surely dont have the scientific knowledge a lot of u guys have, but i follow the phoenix news daily and im anxiously waitin for the new TEGA tests to be done.... i dont care if it last 2 months of more but im pretty sure this phoenix baby will discover something very significant....since i read about a week ago in this same page that the nasa guys had some "intriguing" results from Phoenix that needed "confirmation" my suspicious are only growing, and soooo much care with this TEGA...hmmmm it have to be not only because a "short-circuit", is because a great discovery may be looming.

phaze · Jul 25, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>All well and good. And where do you propose to get the money to do that? Such a mission would cost, what, 1000 times what Phoenix did? It ain't coming out of this Congress or Administration. Or the next one, or the one after that.   Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> couldn't we ask around for donations?  slap a budweiser logo on the side of the ship and name it ronald mcdonald one... there have to be ways.maybe if we just launched really smart monkeys... that would be a little cheaper, right?Phoenix better do something fast!  My attention wanes.

Philotas · Jul 25, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I'm afraid it seems to be a typical malaise affecting the IPod generation, lack of general background knowledge, lack of basic common sense, too much Playstation gaming, listening to manufactured, talentless here today, gone tomorrow crap on cheap tacky IPods, thinking that is cutting edge technology & cool.No background insight as to what a major undertaking a crewed mission to Mars would be.  Posted by 3488</DIV> I'm not sure which figures you use to back up your statements; one would expect that with the wealth of information from NASA/ESA and other sites on the web the average youth would be more educated than ever.Anyway, Phoenix continues to prepare for its first icy sample.<h1>Trench On Mars Ready For Next Sampling By NASA Lander</h1> July 24, 2008 -- NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander has groomed the bottom of a shallow trench to prepare for collecting a sample to be analyzed from a hard subsurface layer where the soil may contain frozen water. Images received Thursday morning confirmed that the lander's robotic arm had scraped the top of the hard layer clean during activities of Phoenix's 58th Martian day, or sol, corresponding to overnight Wednesday to Thursday. The Phoenix team developed commands for sending to the spacecraft Thursday to complete two remaining preparations necessary before collecting a sample and delivering it to the lander's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA). One part of the plan for Sol 59 (overnight Thursday to Friday) would assure that the scoop is empty of any soil collected earlier. Another would complete a final cleaning of any volatile materials from the oven that will receive the sample. In the past two weeks, the team has refined techniques for using a powered rasp on the back of the arm's scoop to cut and collect shavings of material from the bottom of the trench. The trench, informally named "Snow White," is 4 to 5 centimeters deep (about 2 inches), about 23 centimeters wide (9 inches), and about 60 centimeters long (24 inches) long. "The rasped material ends up in the back of the scoop, and we have to transfer it to the front through a pathway. That takes a series of arm moves to be sure the material gets through the pathway," said Robert Bonitz of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manager for the robotic arm. "The reason we're doing it today is we want to be sure the pathway is free of any material collected previously before we collect the next sample for delivery to TEGA." The planned activity would repeat the series of pathway-clearing moves twice, and check visually to be sure the front of the scoop is empty. It is also important to get the background counts as low as possible in TEGA's evolved-gas analyzer, which receives vapors emitted from the oven. The instrument was heated repeatedly before launch and during the flight to Mars to drive off any volatile material in it, such as water and carbon-dioxide gases that tend to stick on surfaces. It got another heating on Sol 58. "The baking last night was to remove background volatiles stuck on the walls of the instrument," said William Boynton of the University of Arizona, Tucson, lead scientist for TEGA. "What we're planning today is pumping out any gas we might have released with the baking." Other activities in the plan for the sol beginning today include weather monitoring and photography of several areas. Some planned use of the Surface Stereo Imager would record the same view consecutively through 15 different filters. Each filter lets through only a limited band of wavelengths of visible or infrared light. Using just red, green and blue filters allows the team to make full-color images. Using the additional filters provides more information useful for interpreting geological or atmospheric qualities of the image target. ---- From http://fawkes1.lpl.arizona.edu/07_24_pr.php <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jul 25, 2008

OK Folks, here we go!!! <h1>Phoenix Scoop Ready For Sampling </h1>July 25, 2008 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander's robotic arm scoop is primed and ready to collect a soil sample from the northern region of Mars to analyze for the presence of water and other possible ingredients. Scientists and engineers on the mission Friday prepared plans to send Phoenix later in the day that would command the robotic arm to rasp the hard soil in the trench informally named "Snow White," collect the shavings and deliver them to an oven for analysis. Images received on Earth Friday morning confirmed that the scoop had been cleared of anything collected during previous days' testing. The scoop went through a sequence of moves to dump any remaining material. At the same time, the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA) was successfully prepared for the sample by purging it of any volatile materials.Read More <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jul 25, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Thanks Wayne.Confirmation of empty scoop, prepared to gather sample. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/5/7e4e8996-2c72-4adc-b534-dc9ea6c38875.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

thor06 · Jul 25, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Could've found more appropriate music. Peter Gabriel's "Digging in the Dirt" or "Red Rain" comes to mind or;Something from Mouse on Mars or The Mars Volta Maybe Dead Can Dance's "Desert Song"And for MW, anything off of King Crimson's Red   Posted by derekmcd</DIV> I'm back..quite a flight..see the post in aviation.  2 words aborted takeoff.Those are all good suggestions, thanks.  King Crimson, wow I have not heard that name in a long time.  21st Century Schizoid Man is the only song I remember.  Great tune, tight band!Jimmy is one of those artists that breeches all ages and interests.   I highly recommend seeing a show.     Looking forward to TEGA getting a taste of Martian water.  It has been an interesting process to get a good sample in.  As always, thanks for the updates! The crazy rocket ship kept it's coneshaped head this time!  Jimmy is a fan BTW.<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> www.watchnasatv.com ONE PERCENT FOR NASA! </div>

DrRocket · Jul 25, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thanks Wayne.Confirmation of empty scoop, prepared to gather sample.  Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV>Visually that scoop appears to be very clean.  How did they do that ?  Is there some mechanism to get rid of clinging dust from prevoius samples, or is there something about the environment that eliminates the tendency of dust to stick to a surface (I was under the impression that this was driven by Van der Waals forces, with maybe a touch of static)?  Or do they have some means of blowing compressed air into the scoop ?  Whatever the means somebody had some good forethought and did some good engineering.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Jul 25, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Visually that scoop appears to be very clean.  How did they do that ?  Is there some mechanism to get rid of clinging dust from prevoius samples, or is there something about the environment that eliminates the tendency of dust to stick to a surface (I was under the impression that this was driven by Van der Waals forces, with maybe a touch of static)?  Or do they have some means of blowing compressed air into the scoop ?  Whatever the means somebody had some good forethought and did some good engineering.  Posted by DrRocket</DIV>Hi DrRocket,Yes you are correct, it is superb engineering & this very issue was thought of at the very beginning.The scoop is made from a Titanium / Aluminium Allow, fashioned to be exteremely smooth, so particles have less microscopic pits to 'cling to' virtually no friction & also the motorized rasp at the base shakes any particles off that may find a foothold & cling. So yes in effect, the scoop is self cleansing. I am sure that the Van der Waals forces are at play within the sample itself & is evident with the clumping that has been observed particularly with the first sample, (problems with loading the TEGA oven the first time) though that may also had been simple freezing together of individual particles & the ice subliming freeing them eventually, rather than Van der Waals forces or static. I agree, Phoenix is a superbly engineered craft & despite the relatively few issues, is performing extremely well & really on a very small budget too (mainly the reason why I get annoyed with the moaning & bitching that has surfaced from time to time from some people). Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Jul 25, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Visually that scoop appears to be very clean.  How did they do that ?  Is there some mechanism to get rid of clinging dust from prevoius samples, or is there something about the environment that eliminates the tendency of dust to stick to a surface (I was under the impression that this was driven by Van der Waals forces, with maybe a touch of static)?  Or do they have some means of blowing compressed air into the scoop ?  Whatever the means somebody had some good forethought and did some good engineering.  Posted by DrRocket</DIV> It wouldn't surpise me if they shook it, ran the rasp and banged it against a hard surface. Just what you or I would do if we were trying to clean our scoop!

<div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

JonClarke · Jul 26, 2008

The wonderful and indispensible Emily at The Planetary Society"So we're approaching the two-thirds mark on the mission, and some of you readers out there are getting a little antsy about what Phoenix has accomplished to date. The issues with TEGA have certainly slowed down the plans to examine soil samples. But TEGA's not the only instrument on the mission, and things are really going very well. Let's look at the Phoenix mission success criteria and see how the mission is doing.Firstly, let's consider the minimum mission success criteria. Phoenix has successfully completed all of these. <ul><li>Land successfully on the surface of Mars and achieve a power safe state. </li><li>Acquire a partial 120° monochromatic panorama of the landing site. </li><li>Provide samples of the surface soil as well as samples from one depth beneath the surface to either TEGA or MECA wet chemistry. <ul><li>If TEGA, analyze at least 2 soil samples to create a profile of H2O (in the form of hydrated minerals, adsorbed water, or possibly ice at the deepest level) and mineral abundances near the surface. It shall also analyze an atmospheric sample in its mass spectrometer. </li><li>If MECA, analyze the wet chemistry of 2 soil samples.</li></ul></li><li>Document all non-atmospheric samples and their collection locations with images."</li></ul>http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001567/ <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

JonClarke · Jul 26, 2008

This may have been posted before, but it is still useful.  Usually a day or two behind, but otherwise very good.  It is essential reading for those who think that robotic exploration is fast and easy.Jon http://www.planetary.org/explore/topics/phoenix/sols.html  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Jul 26, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The wonderful and indispensible Emily at The Planetary Society" Posted by jonclarke</DIV>I know, Emily is absolutely wonderful, she is always a real joy to read & to listen to at the press conferences. I was getting very annoyed bu people moaning without good reason & your posts  should shut them up, there's plenty of information contained to reveal, what a huge success Phoenix really is.Thank you very much Jon, for helping to rescue Phoenix's reputation. Many of us like Wayne, Tim, Dr Rocket, Derek, Philotas etc did not need reminding as we take the time & trouble to search out the updates, etc. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jul 26, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It wouldn't surpise me if they shook it, ran the rasp and banged it against a hard surface. Just what you or I would do if we were trying to clean our scoop!

Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>That's true Wayne. The scoop was designed to be a frictionless as possible, seeing as if the terrain was likely to be layered (which does seem likely now), that obviously samples from a lower layer, would not want to be corrupted by a 'dirty' scoop with a few remaining bits from an upper, already TEGA'd / MECA'd layer. The motorized rasp helps also as the vibrations will overcome any Van der Waals forces & static.Sol 60 Scoop poised over TEGA. http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=16029&cID=17907:33 Hrs Local time Scandia Colles. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/0/8cd3f8d9-d2d3-4bea-9098-2a0f9a5d8048.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Looks like sample has been successfully delivered. 07:50 Hrs Local time Scandia Colles. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/4/0/14a1be7e-9c16-4d9d-a071-af5f9d1240d9.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  TEGA oven 0 in the afternoon of Sol 60. 13:26 Hrs Local time Scandia Colles. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/9/0df19c7b-ff6a-4875-b93d-4a2c27f80482.Medium.jpg" alt="" />TEGA oven 0 later on in the afternoon of Sol 60. 15:28 Hrs Local time Scandia Colles. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/0/dcb87c69-452a-4709-b08f-4a6cbe48131c.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jul 26, 2008

Sol 60. Looks like some regolith has stuck in the scoop. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/13/1f9139b5-3b16-474d-8d6a-f8f2a15ce36c.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Scoop over TEGA in colour. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/6/0bac71c8-858c-45e1-96db-2531f05fde50.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

l3p3r · Jul 26, 2008

Hi All, Just spotted this in the image list on the phoenix site... It's one of a set of the same object... I don't recall seeing it so far this mission, any idea what it is and what it does? http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=16080&cID=179Cheers! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Jul 26, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi All, Just spotted this in the image list on the phoenix site... It's one of a set of the same object... I don't recall seeing it so far this mission, any idea what it is and what it does? http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=16080&cID=179Cheers! Posted by l3p3r</DIV>It's a color wheel.  It's used to gauge/calibrate color in color images based on its appearance in the light at the site of the lander.  AFAIK http://www.sciam.com/slideshow.cfm?id=mars-lander-slide-show&thumbs=horizontal&photo_id=3BD7D9D1-EEA7-386F-1E09EC4501A69F9G <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

bobw · Jul 26, 2008

Another heartbreaker for sure!  Maybe for the next lander they will need to try a more positive method for getting the sample delivered, like a core drill with a pusher to force it into the chamber. Those Phoenix guys must be tearing their hair out about now

Better luck next time people!  I brightened the color picture a bit.  It looks like the dirt on the lower doors probably moved there when they vibrated the screen.  Not likely IMO that is where it fell from the scoop, none on the lower edge beyond the shiny doors.  So if it moved with vibration it probably would have fallen through the screen if any landed there.  15-20 kph winds on Mars wouldn't blow dirt away would it? From the caption: Some of the soil sample can be seen at the bottom of the adjacent pair of doors. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/11/8763cd01-3c11-4acc-8ba8-f6ba8f319072.Medium.png" alt="" width="241" height="217" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Jul 26, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It's a color wheel.  It's used to gauge/calibrate color in color imageReplying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It's a color wheel.  It's used to gauge/calibrate color in color images based on its appearance in the light at the site of the lander.  AFAIK  Posted by a_lost_packet_</DIV>Hi A-L-P. Yes that is exactly it. Also some of the mall dots in the centre are mutlispectral, same thing but with IR & UV light. Hi Bobw, Yes, it looks like not enough samples had made it into the oven. Perhaps another sample needs to be delivered. There still is or was some in the scoop, perhaps vibrate some of that in? Trench in colour. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/4/b8068301-6d31-4b81-94ad-3b490481a1b4.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

bobw · Jul 26, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> There still is or was some in the scoop, perhaps vibrate some of that in? Posted by 3488</DIV>My gut feeling is that if they leave the scoop alone all that dirt in the scoop will be just a smidgen of dust.  The website said they rasped out 3cc.  Not very much so most of it must be still in the scoop.  Maybe that stuff on the doors is what was left after the ice sublimed during the time it took to rasp scoop and then dump. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/2/4c4ab79e-3513-4e0f-928a-a447e5a6b943.Medium.png" alt="" width="257" height="275" />   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

exoscientist · Jul 26, 2008

The Planetary Society Weblog By Emily Lakdawalla Phoenix sol 60: not enough sample to TEGA Jul. 26, 2008 | 15:37 PDT | 22:37 UTC "Well, according to a release just posted on the Phoenix website, despite the success of the rasping efforts, not enough sample got in to the TEGA instrument for it to shut the doors over the sample. This time the problem was not with TEGA. The problem was that the sample material stayed stuck on the inside of the scoop. The picture below was taken at 07:55, after the attempted dump. (The dump happened some time between 07:33 and 07:49, according to the time stamps on the pre- and post-dump robotic arm camera images.)" http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001573/   Bob Clark <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

bobw · Jul 26, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> The problem was that the sample material stayed stuck on the inside of the scoop. The picture below was taken at 07:55, after the attempted dump.  Bob Clark Posted by exoscientist</DIV>Your picture is better than the ones I've seen, thanks.The wierd thing that has got me going is if the soil is so sticky how did it end up at the back of the scoop?  Why did it slide back there and then not slide out?  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

IshKabbible · Jul 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Your picture is better than the ones I've seen, thanks.The wierd thing that has got me going is if the soil is so sticky how did it end up at the back of the scoop?  Why did it slide back there and then not slide out?  Posted by bobw</DIV> The good news is that everything (except the soil) behaved perfectly. This soil is the stuff Tide commercials are made of

What you can't see in the picture is that a small chunk did break loose from the area in the shadow and that is what fell on the door to the left (and a tiny bit on the screen of the open cell). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Testing · Jul 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> The good news is that everything (except the soil) behaved perfectly. This soil is the stuff Tide commercials are made of

What you can't see in the picture is that a small chunk did break loose from the area in the shadow and that is what fell on the door to the left (and a tiny bit on the screen of the open cell). Posted by IshKabbible</DIV> So get some real, real good robotics person to program a push off with the edge of the scoop. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Jul 27, 2008

First 'nightish' time view of the trench.Trench @ 3:24 AM Sol 61.<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/de50f26e-a3ae-4d11-84b6-ce30ea3e3516.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Alt - 16.74 deg Azm 126.04 deg at 3.37 AM Sol 61 Local Time Scandia Colles. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/1/05008218-b1a9-4123-91cd-ab0decfb1cb0.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Alt-15.8 deg Azm 82.40 deg at 3.50 AM lacal time Scandia Colles. Nice polygonal border under a very low sun. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/2/4/8276e16c-fe96-42d5-a4a7-057725097220.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

gawin · Jul 27, 2008

I have a question that maybe one here can answer.Does the phoenix team have anyone on it who is an experienced heavy equipment operator? And if yes does that operator have experience working in frozen climates?The only reason that i am asking this is that when digging in the winter in frozen ground it is VERY common to have the dirt/ice stick in your bucket. There are several techniques that people who dig in frozen ground every day 8 to 10 hours a day that could help phoenix greatly.I am in no way bashing them I think the science is great and have been following this discussion religiously. But every once in a wile some times scientists over look the simple things. You want to dig in frozen ground bring in some one who has done just that for 15 -20 years. He may not have a Dr. Degree but he sure as hell knows how to dig

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