Phoenix surface mission

3488 · Aug 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What is the time frame for the images?  How long is the total sequence? Posted by a_lost_packet_</DIV>Good point A-L-P. That would be very interesting to know.AFAIK, the microscopic images need to be examined to identify what is actually martian verses what could be terrestrial contamination, carried from before launch (dust, fibres, hair, etc).Those images are inside the MECA IIRC, so I wonder if the wind can get in there & still blow dust particles around within the field of view of the microscope?????<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/8/c52070fa-728f-47ae-88a7-d6cf4348c671.Medium.gif" alt="" /> Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Aug 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>.. I still owe you a big one.Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV>There's no debt with something freely given.  Enjoy!  If there's any images you want, just let me know.  Those were done somewhat by hand because I'm not familiar with all of Photoshop's masking tools and placement commands.  But, I have another proggy I can use to do split images and such a little quicker. I just have to set it up. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

rlb2 · Aug 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Interesting Movie, Ron.  It could be, or, it could also be attributed movement from vibration.  I rather hope it's not the ladder.  Posted by bearack</DIV> I dont think it is movement from vibration or more particles would move. It is kind of neat to see this once in a while. Here is the 1st worm movie I made back June 16. Check lower middle part of this movie for the movement.http://www.youtube.com/user/shineinnovationsI made hundreds of movies from the Opportunity and Spirit sites but I seldom saw something moving other than a part on the rover, I will catch one wheel moving every once in a while, they were digging in the soil, or an instrument moving but nothing that wasn't attached to the rover. I did find some interesting things, such as in this recent movie I made of dust moving very slowly at Victoria crater the movie lasted 500 seconds from first frame to last. The dsut was around for several sol's???http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbu1OT_klSIIts important to note that all the dust moving images were shot with the L6 filter, JPL new something was moving or else they wouldn't have made all those L6 images, 482nm, so the movie was made out of one color closely representing the color of most of the terrain. The actual dust when combining the RGB filter together was a bright golden yellow color something I never saw before and I've done over 3000 color images using the JPL's raw RGB filters.....   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Aug 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What is the time frame for the images?  How long is the total sequence? Posted by a_lost_packet_</DIV>The Mars Ice-worm movie was made with each single frame RGB images so the flashing of lights and the appearing and disappearing of the objects were filter out of each frame I corrected that by making a false color movie. I updated the movie to include a color one from the microscopic imager with all the RGB channels included there were 9 total raw images it takes 3 raw images to make a color image they had them marked this time at their Phoenix site. I didn’t adjust the color to be close to true color because they didn’t give me the RGB wave length info I needed. So here is the Movie I made with three RGBcolor images, I looped it so it will play over and over. If you look closely the colors seems to move on the surface if you watch the larger version of the movie, that is because the image is being stretched from 256 pixels to over 1000 pixels....The time between the first raw image and the last raw image of the movie I made was 1 hr 41 minutes 19 seconds. The color images themselves made from the raw images were apx one minute apart from the first Red image to the last Blue… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjjZh98wcVk Here is a new one this one from sol 72 all filters are Blue the three images I looped together are 1 minute and 7 seconds apart???http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Pgzh1x4-s    <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

abq_farside · Aug 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The Mars Ice-worm movie was made with each single frame RGB images so the flashing of lights and the appearing and disappearing of the objects were filter out of each frame I corrected that by making a false color movie. I updated the movie to include a color one from the microscopic imager with all the RGB channels included there were 9 total raw images it takes 3 raw images to make a color image they had them marked this time at their Phoenix site. I didn’t adjust the color to be close to true color because they didn’t give me the RGB wave length info I needed. So here is the Movie I made with three RGBcolor images, I looped it so it will play over and over. If you look closely the colors seems to move on the surface if you watch the larger version of the movie, that is because the image is being stretched from 256 pixels to over 1000 pixels....The time between the first raw image and the last raw image of the movie I made was 1 hr 41 minutes 19 seconds. The color images themselves made from the raw images were apx one minute apart from the first Red image to the last Blue… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjjZh98wcVk Here is a new one this one from sol 72 all filters are Blue the three images I looped together are 1 minute and 7 seconds apart???http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Pgzh1x4-s   Posted by rlb2</DIV>rlb Thanks for the movies - very interesting.  But in the second one (highlighted above) I did not notice the "worm", could you describe where to look.  Thanks. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Don't let who you are keep you from becoming who you want to be! </div>

rlb2 · Aug 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>rlbThanks for the movies - very interesting.  But in the second one (highlighted above) I did not notice the "worm", could you describe where to look.  Thanks. Posted by abq_farside</DIV>Are you talking about this movie??http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Pgzh1x4-sI colorized the raw images, see below, they all are from the same Blue filter meaning there is little chance something would be filtered out of one image because of its color. You can see things moving around from one image to the other. It cant be sublimation because the first image was taken at 11:43:17 the second was 11:43:50 and the far right one at 11:44:24, within 1 minute and 7 seconds from the first frame to the last??? <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/9/5a72b496-62fb-498f-b9c3-58ed390d0c8a.Medium.jpg" alt="" /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/12/551d924f-92e0-4d88-bc78-faab7b3f706b.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="168" height="191" /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/0/0ee3bbf0-e5b4-4754-a096-bbb919def3eb.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="164" height="191" />Other than some of the rocks like objects moving I thought this was interesting too, you see it in the first image but not in anyone of the other ones. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/12/e9e82964-f8ef-4950-8c09-e837a132c804.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

Jeters_Boy · Aug 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Are you talking about this movie??http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Pgzh1x4-sI colorized the raw images, see below, they all are from the same Blue filter meaning there is little chance something would be filtered out of one image because of its color. You can see things moving around from one image to the other. It cant be sublimation because the first image was taken at 11:43:17 the second was 11:43:50 and the far right one at 11:44:24, within 1 minute and 7 seconds from the first frame to the last???     Posted by rlb2</DIV>I'm no expert but it's kind of cool that there's an ever-so-slight chance that you could get your name in history books thanks to this video. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Now batting, shortstop Derek Jeter </div>

rlb2 · Aug 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I'm no expert but it's kind of cool that there's an ever-so-slight chance that you could get your name in history books thanks to this video. Posted by Jeters_Boy</DIV>Thanks, your welcome, its an obsession of mine. It would be nice to be cited for the work you do, if your the first to do it.This is just some of the stuff that I have found, I'm not sure what it all means. If organics is found then that would help out a lot. It is all meant to raise awareness of what might be going on and hopefully point out something to the Phoenix teem that they might otherwise overlook. They need to do more single filter images, most preferred Blue filter, from the microscopic imager with the same wavelength to make movies with too see for themselves .  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

bobble_bob · Aug 8, 2008

Great movie. What scale are those pictures? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Aug 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Great movie. What scale are those pictures? Posted by bobble_bob</DIV>Hi bobble_bob.The microscope has a maximum FOV of 3mm, then zooms in from there.The images Ron has made the movie from are IMO 1mm across at the very, very most. Difficult to know for sure without seeing part of the rim of the substrate (which is 3mm across). Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

cello · Aug 9, 2008

I failed to find sunset and sunrise times for Phoenix location.When we expect first sunset? When will be last sunrise and polar night begins? When we expect first sunrise after long night? When next polar day begins?Is there some public simulator available for sunrise / sunset times on Mars? thx

bobble_bob · Aug 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi bobble_bob.The microscope has a maximum FOV of 3mm, then zooms in from there.The images Ron has made the movie from are IMO 1mm across at the very, very most. Difficult to know for sure without seeing part of the rim of the substrate (which is 3mm across). Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV>Thanks Andrew

Zardar · Aug 9, 2008

Those are just jpeg image compression artifacts.  Never try to use a lossy compressed image or  frames from a movie clip as the basis of scientific analysis.  see  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_artifact for some more info.Zardar.  Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Are you talking about this movie??http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Pgzh1x4-sI colorized the raw images, see below, they all are from the same Blue filter meaning there is little chance something would be filtered out of one image because of its color. You can see things moving around from one image to the other. It cant be sublimation because the first image was taken at 11:43:17 the second was 11:43:50 and the far right one at 11:44:24, within 1 minute and 7 seconds from the first frame to the last???Other than some of the rocks like objects moving I thought this was interesting too, you see it in the first image but not in anyone of the other ones.  Posted by rlb2</DIV>

rlb2 · Aug 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Those are just jpeg image compression artifacts.  Never try to use a lossy compressed image or  frames from a movie clip as the basis of scientific analysis.  see  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_artifactfor some more info.Zardar.  Posted by Zardar</DIV>In this case it was the opposite I used raw images to make that movie not the other way around, all the images in that movie were different formations. I also take the raw images and lay them side by side to compare them with one another. In the color Ice-worm movie I used three raw RGB images to make one color image, therefore it is very unlikely to get the same artifact in all three images.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I see Andrew answered that question for you bobble_bob, it is kind of difficult to judge an exact scale like he said but my guess is the worm-like object is anywhere from 0.1 mm, 0.004 inch to 0.3 mm, 0.012 inch long?? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

3488 · Aug 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I failed to find sunset and sunrise times for Phoenix location.When we expect first sunset? When will be last sunrise and polar night begins? When we expect first sunrise after long night? When next polar day begins?Is there some public simulator available for sunrise / sunset times on Mars? thx Posted by cello</DIV>Hi cello,First Sunset for Phoenix Mars Lander will be Saturday 23rd August 2008, for literally only for a few minutes for the first few sols then the nights will lengthen drastically. Leave it to me, I'll come up with the info.Northern Hemisphere Martian Seasons below: Summer Solstice: Wednesday 25th June 2008.Autumn (Fall)  Equinox: Friday 26th December 2008 (Boxing Day 2008). Winter Solstice: Thursday 21st May 2009.Spring (Vernal) Equinox: Monday 26th October 2009.Summer Solstice: Thursday 13th May 2010. Leave it to me, I love doing this sort of stuff & I'll come up with some proper dates for you. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Aug 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>In this case it was the opposite I used raw images to make that movie not the other way around, all the images in that movie were different formations. I also take the raw images and lay them side by side to compare them with one another. In the color Ice-worm movie I used three raw RGB images to make one color image, therefore it is very unlikely to get the same artifact in all three images.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I see Andrew answered that question for you bobble_bob, it is kind of difficult to judge an exact scale like he said but my guess is the worm-like object is anywhere from 0.1 mm, 0.004 inch to 0.3 mm, 0.012 inch long?? Posted by rlb2</DIV>That's my take on it Ron.Thank you for confirming what I had said.Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Aug 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I failed to find sunset and sunrise times for Phoenix location.When we expect first sunset? When will be last sunrise and polar night begins? When we expect first sunrise after long night? When next polar day begins?Is there some public simulator available for sunrise / sunset times on Mars? thx Posted by cello</DIV>Hi Cello, for Phoenix Mars Lander, the final Sunrise during this Martian year will be on Sunday 5th April 2009 (my 40th, a strange co-incidence), The Sun is up for approx 12 minutes.The following day, not at all, though very nearly.The sun will next rise for Phoenix Mars Lander on Tuesday 7th July 2009. The Sun is up for approx 14 minutes. After which the days lengthen very quickly.So the Sun will not rise for a total of three months & two days or 93 Earth days or 90 Sols straight from the Phoenix site. It is worth mentioning that by July 2009, Phoenix will be encased in at least 2 metres deep CO2 ice at this point with ambient temperatures around -135 C / -211 F. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

bobble_bob · Aug 9, 2008

Has anyone at Nasa come out yet to speculate on what the we have seen in the images? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Aug 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Has anyone at Nasa come out yet to speculate on what the we have seen in the images? Posted by bobble_bob</DIV>Hi bobblebob,There's nothing as yet. Perhaps being weekend now, the nonessential / PR staff are not in. If there is anything to report, perhaps something on Monday or some time later next week?I still would not rule out that it's part of the substrate, rather than anything martian.  Hi all, A couple of Sol 73 views of suspected ice features under the Phoenix Mars Lander. A view of the nearest part of Holy Cow on Sol 73. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/11/7e8c5188-5015-456c-abe9-81e4e07c1f2e.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Snow Queen Sol 73. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/4/6/345012fa-d340-4228-8625-b21f2a83c207.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

rlb2 · Aug 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi bobblebob,There's nothing as yet. Perhaps being weekend now, the nonessential / PR staff are not in. If there is anything to report, perhaps something on Monday or some time later next week?I still would not rule out that it's part of the substrate, rather than anything martian.  Hi all, A couple of Sol 73 views of suspected ice features under the Phoenix Mars Lander. A view of the nearest part of Holy Cow on Sol 73. Snow Queen Sol 73.  Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV>Hi Andrew- JPL is taking more microscopic images now, that’s a good thing.  There are some weird things going on with the latest Microscopic images. Some of these new things we see in sol 73 may be focusing issues but the new images from the microscopic Imager is a laboratory full of weird stuff like this one, I call it ‘Crab Patch” because one of the rocks looks like it has crab legs. Got to be careful because they did do some refocusing before they shot these images - all three images shown is from a Blue filter…Phoenix/JPL now may be checking it out more, they control the Vertical, they control the Horizontal...... <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/4/f3078d0d-f8eb-4b6a-84a2-73a84ff91f90.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="165" height="255" /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/8/8da8540b-e1fb-4ffe-b859-8e35b3ba8ca3.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="152" height="253" /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/12/30bc7f22-a931-4d2c-ac8c-ddf3e82803ab.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="136" height="255" />I will post a larger one here...http://members.cox.net/theinnovator/Crab-patchlg_19423b.jpg  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

3488 · Aug 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi Andrew- JPL is taking more microscopic images now, that’s a good thing.  There are some weird things going on with the latest Microscopic images. Some of these new things we see in sol 73 may be focusing issues but the new images from the microscopic Imager is a laboratory full of weird stuff like this one, I call it ‘Crab Patch” because one of the rocks looks like it has crab legs off to one side. Got to be careful because they did do some refocusing before they shot these images - all three images shown is from a Blue filter…Phoenix/JPL now may be checking it out more, they control the Vertical, they control the Horizontal......You may not see it here I will post a larger one here...http://members.cox.net/theinnovator/Crab-patchlg_19423b.jpg Posted by rlb2</DIV>Cheers Ron,Yes I see it, it really does look like a tiny, tiny crab (tiny fraction of 1mm across). I am sure that JPL / U of A will be examining these images very closely.Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

Zardar · Aug 10, 2008

rlb2, Where exactly did you get your "raw" images? I went to the UA Phoenix website, and found the "sol 72 raw" images page, and downloaded some of the large "Raw" images from there, which actually happened to be JPG files.Most of the microscope images are 256x512 pixels, 8 bit greyscale (or less in reality). Total of 128K raw data, but the JPG files are only 40-50K. Therefore, there is significant compression in there, and most of them, especially the higher contrast ones, are RIDDELED with compression artifacts.  You can see the 8x8 Jpeg blocking patterns, varing levels of bluring between the various blocks, and heavy "ringing" on block edges that are co-incident with high contrast boundarys in the original data.The image below shows ALL THREE of those compression artifacts:<img src="file:///C:/Users/Ciaran/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg" alt="" />  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/11/77719381-6d48-4c74-bb3b-ef91932dc33e.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> I know it's hard for you to accept this. But, to prove it to yourself, please go take a hi-res, hi quality image of a tray of clean sand, cut out a 256x512 sub-image out of it and convert to monochrome (or just take one of the color channels). 256x512x8bit = 128K "Raw" image size. Then compress it using Jpeg, with different compression ratios.  Increase the ratio until you get a saved file size of about 40K, which roughly matches the ratio on the Phoenix images on the UA website. Then zoom in on that image, and see what's there. Please post and discuss your results for the rest of us to see. (perhaps a seperate thread may be appropiate at this stage...)And, I have written image compression programs, so I do know what I'm talking about. Z.  Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>In this case it was the opposite I used raw images to make that movie not the other way around, all the images in that movie were different formations. I also take the raw images and lay them side by side to compare them with one another. In the color Ice-worm movie I used three raw RGB images to make one color image, therefore it is very unlikely to get the same artifact in all three images.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I see Andrew answered that question for you bobble_bob, it is kind of difficult to judge an exact scale like he said but my guess is the worm-like object is anywhere from 0.1 mm, 0.004 inch to 0.3 mm, 0.012 inch long?? Posted by rlb2</DIV>

3488 · Aug 10, 2008

Looks like Phoenix has been working 'overnight' again.Fantastic stuff. I reckon some of these low Sun late night / early morning images are going to be among the iconic ones of the entire mission, as are the remarkable Sol 0 images received so shortly after landing, as is the Mission Success Panorama, that a-lost-packet so kindly chopped up into manageable pieces for me to study & to share interesting thoughts & crops. As promised a new thread using those will be appearing shortly, as I've had some time to properly look & now that SDC is running well.Alt -16.74 deg Azm 126.05 deg at 23:38 Hrs LMST (Local Mars Standard Time) Sol 74. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/1/0883e0e1-6f91-4c69-a133-045863637cb3.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Alt -16.73 deg Azm 126.05 deg at 01:14 Hrs LMST (Local Mars Standard Time) Sol 75. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/15/b8d3e418-a8ed-44a3-9fdb-144f050a6eee.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Alt -16.73 deg Azm 126.05 deg at 04:19 Hrs LMST (Local Mars Standard Time) Sol 75. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/14/decd284f-8602-4090-aeab-31470e9a5bdd.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

rlb2 · Aug 10, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>rlb2, Where exactly did you get your "raw" images? I went to the UA Phoenix website, and found the "sol 72 raw" images page, and downloaded some of the large "Raw" images from there, which actually happened to be JPG files.Most of the microscope images are 256x512 pixels, 8 bit greyscale (or less in reality). Total of 128K raw data, but the JPG files are only 40-50K. Therefore, there is significant compression in there, and most of them, especially the higher contrast ones, are RIDDELED with compression artifacts.  You can see the 8x8 Jpeg blocking patterns, varing levels of bluring between the various blocks, and heavy "ringing" on block edges that are co-incident with high contrast boundarys in the original data.The image below shows ALL THREE of those compression artifacts:   I know it's hard for you to accept this. But, to prove it to yourself, please go take a hi-res, hi quality image of a tray of clean sand, cut out a 256x512 sub-image out of it and convert to monochrome (or just take one of the color channels). 256x512x8bit = 128K "Raw" image size. Then compress it using Jpeg, with different compression ratios.  Increase the ratio until you get a saved file size of about 40K, which roughly matches the ratio on the Phoenix images on the UA website. Then zoom in on that image, and see what's there. Please post and discuss your results for the rest of us to see. (perhaps a seperate thread may be appropiate at this stage...)And, I have written image compression programs, so I do know what I'm talking about. Z.  Posted by Zardar</DIV>I do know what you mean but that doesn't negate most of the evidence I've shown here so far.Of course you will see some artifacts in that smaller image, especially around the corners because it has been stretched to a larger size and recopied several times. SDC only allows a certain size image to be downloaded so any larger image you download will be compressed so it will introduce more artifacts; in this case I hold the original ones that I downloaded and processed from the Phoenix, U of A, site.  There is a whole host of stuff you can do to preserve the file data before compressing it - downsizing (YCbCr), color space transformation (YCbCr) etc etc. There are a number of alterations you can perform as long as the image size is multiple 1 MCU block. To show these images on the internet usually JPEG is enough however every time you copy a JPEG image then paste it, then someone else copies that image that you pasted, it looses more information causing more artifacts however it is less so than the others. That’s why I prefer to use JPL/NASA JPEG images and not Phoenix, U of A, images.  As far as I know JPL/NASA gets their images first then Phoenix, U of A, takes them and recopies them then posts them. JPL/NASA has stopped posting microscopic images at their site since I produced the first Ice-worm movie, why I don’t know???  I noticed at the Phoenix, U of A, site that they are paying more attention to microscopic images now, they have taken a lot more Microscopic images in the last several sols…. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Aug 10, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Cheers Ron,Yes I see it, it really does look like a tiny, tiny crab (tiny fraction of 1mm across). I am sure that JPL / U of A will be examining these images very closely.Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV>Thanks Andrew it does look like they are paying more attention to the microscopic imagers these days, there are a lot more images coming out of it in the last several days... _________________________________________________________________________________On another note, this is strictly a hypothetical thought and nothing more, about a segmented animals species know as a water bear, Tardigrade, something I have posted on this message board going back to the late nineties. What if the course grain sand-like objects moving around in this movie are cousins to the Tardigrades? Here is what it says about the Tardigrade - Water Bear.http://www.youtub<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Pgzh1x4-s">e.com/watch?v=B_Pgzh1x4-s</a>  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/9/90a1d792-4451-4511-8923-72cf51578d3b.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Tardigrades (commonly kown as water bears) comprise the phylum Tardigrada. They are small, segmented animals, similar and related to the arthropods. Tardigrades were first described by Johann August Ephraim Goeze in 1773 (kleiner Wasserbär= little water bear). The name Tardigrada means "slow walker" and was given by Spallanzani in 1777. The biggest adults may reach a body length of 1.5 mm, the smallest below 0.1 mm. Freshly hatched larvae may be smaller than 0.05 mm.( about the size in these images)More than 1000 species of tardigrades have been described. Tardigrades occur over the entire world, from the high Himalayas (above 6,000 m), to the deep sea (below 4,000 m) and from the polar regions to the equator.The most convenient place to find tardigrades is on lichens and mosses. Water bears are able to survive in extreme environments that would kill almost any other animal. Some can survive temperatures close to absolute zero, temperatures as high as 151°C (303°F), 1,000 times more radiation than any other animal, nearly a decade without water, and can also survive in a vacuum like that found in space.Tardigrades are very hardy animals; scientists have reported their existence in hot springs, on top of the Himalayas, under layers of solid ice and in ocean sediments. Many species can be found in a milder environment like lakes, ponds and meadows, while others can be found in stone walls and roofs. Tardigrades are most common in moist environments, but can stay active wherever they can retain at least some moisture.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TardigradeNow that NASA/JPL and A of U has their ears on, taking more microscopic images, maybe they will soon confirm or deny what is going on. I would expect them to be very thorough in their investigation; it will be demanded by the scientific community as said by others here before. Their holding most the cards but they promised that they would release more information for wider amount of peer reviews streamlining the process..It probably is explainable in a traditional since but if not, with other scientific confirmations, we may now have a real opportunity to expand the boundaries of the existence of life outside this pebble we call home....   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

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