Sending food to Mars and the Moon

[webtaz99]

Complete recycle of black water has not been necessary before. Therefore it hasn't had a large amount of research. It will be somewhere between desirable and required for a Mars trip. Techniques will be developed. Microwave pyrolysis has already been demonstrated by NASA. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[holmec]

Another option to direct incineration, is just baking the stuff for a period of time to kill off bacteria but keep all material contained and not spread in the Martian atmosphere.<br /><br />One question that is arising here for me is how much 'stuff' should we mix with the Martian environment. I know there are advocates for terraforming, but are there advocates for Martian environmental conservation? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[j05h]

<i>> Now, that's not the way I'd go about things, but you have some really good ideas there. IIRC you said you're basing this on the assumption of a sterile environment to start with. Most of my quibbles disappear in that case. </i><br /><br />Thanks. The problem with unrestrained Earth biology is if it mixes with native Mars biology. If there is Mars life, it's almost inevitable that it will mix, the question then becomes, how to mix it in what ways? The flip side is that a rapidly mixing/evolving biota in a Mars crater could be a gold mine of bio-tech data and eventual products. It is definitely safer to figure these things out in a lab instead of the crater next to your base (and your blue water).<br /><br />Water production is the first step in large-scale fuel production, that is why I see it as the prime local resource. Sure, we can bring hydrogen and electricity to make return-fuel, but that will be rapidly outpaced by powering ground equipment at a growing base. Most of this is concerned with settlement, not basic exploration. But a base of this sort (large scale, diversified) anywhere on Mars would greatly enable further exploration. Destinations count. <br /><br />The idea of living underwater makes space settlement more enticing. It's potentially a 'cheap' way to build pressure domes on Mars, by using ice to weigh down the air pressure in the lower, dry parts of a habitat. It provides excellent radiation and MMOD protection and is naturally self-sealing.<br /><br />One cool thing living underwater would be the ability to utilize large air bubbles. In a constructed pond-Hab like this, people could have little nooks and clay beaches throughout the pond, each with it's own little air-space. When a person wants some quiet time or wants to dig clams, they swim up onto a beach, which would look like a shelf near the ice-dome. On the beach, they would let air out of their SCUBA tank, enough to create a breathing space or to fill the whole beach area with air. If the <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[j05h]

<i>> Do you think we're ready enough to send a unmanned (but not unplant ) mission to Mars? </i><br /><br />Yes, a mini Mars Greenhouse is only some cash and engineering away from reality. They have been proposed and are feasible. It could be as simple as a "Pathfinder" lander with a scoop and a clear dome on top. Grow a rose, mustard and beans, one symbolic, the other two good research plants. Do various fertilizer and inoculant treatments to the soil inside, see what works before people go. <br /><br />The obvious problem with this is that we don't know if Mars has life already. A mini-greenhouse would be impossible to sterilize before flight, and the bacteria and fungi in the inoculants are almost guaranteed to be released in the local environment eventually. The first human or rosebush on Mars is the beginning of Terraforming - and it also brings up huge back-contamination issues. If Mars has life, especially infective or hostile organisms, will people that go there be allowed to return to Earth? If you're infested with Martian Thread Worms, are you stuck in space? If we continue as a technological species, spreading Earth biota may be inevitable. <br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[keermalec]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I really think we should send unmanned landers to grow plants and extract water on Mars. That way we can get real numbers and be more prepared for a manned mission. <br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Well, not the grow food part but extracting water is exactly the aim of the Phoenix Lander launched this summer to Mars:<br /><br />http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/ <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>“An error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.” John F. Kennedy</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

J05H:<br />If Mars has life, especially infective or hostile organisms, will people that go there be allowed to return to Earth? If you're infested with Martian Thread Worms, are you stuck in space? If we continue as a technological species, spreading Earth biota may be inevitable.<br /><br />Me:<br />Unfortunate but true...just hope we can positively confirm the occurence of life, a second genesis on mars before we contaminate it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[yoda9999]

We will need to send stuff. Earth empires were built with salt, sugar, tea and spice trades.<br /><br />I think psychologically, people will need to eat their favorite Earth food on Mars. I mean, eating Martian bread and vegetables might be fun for a few weeks, but after that I think you'll be bored. We need to send food like pizza, burgers, steaks, lasagna, Chinese and Indian to the colonists or they will go crazy.

 

[alokmohan]

Think of terraforming and the rest will follow.

 

[yoda9999]

Maybe we should minimize our impact on Mars first before we screw up the planet. Mars is unique, maybe we should keep it that way.

 

[j05h]

<i>> Maybe we should minimize our impact on Mars first before we screw up the planet. Mars is unique, maybe we should keep it that way.</i><br /><br />Minimizing our impact means no humans to Mars. There is no way around it. The moment people set foot on Mars, terraforming has begun. Our bodies, food and habitats are filled with bacteria. We either accept that or don't go to the surface. <br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[spacester]

In the interest of continuing the discussion . . .<br /><br />You are right JO5H, but it is certainly a matter of degree here. We need to draw a distinction between <i>intentional</i> terraforming versus <i>unavoidable </i> terraforming.<br /><br />Life may exist on Mars, we'll not know if that is true any time soon, but we can be pretty sure that it differs from Earth in that life is certainly not <b>everywhere</b> as it is on Earth.<br /><br />Thus, if a sortie or outpost or settlement is located at a site which has been determined to contain no detectable life, then following environmental protocols can minimize the unavoidable terraforming.<br /><br />In other words, if we take care, we can do a pretty good job of isolating ourselves from Martian Biota. This is a far cry from showing up with intent and plans to terraform.<br /><br />KMS' Red Planet is not the only plot line we can envision and talk about, right? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>