Terraforming

[Catastrophe]

Smaller is usually better for first tries. That is often what "economic" means. Big things come later when you can pay for them with what you learn by small things.
Yes, a little magnetic field can be made and it has been proposed by NASA people in the past. This isn't for protecting an entire planet however, but for protecting a single spacecraft. So far no one has ever built one that big to the best of my knowledge.
Cosmic Rays are little atomic nuclei moving at close to the speed of light. They hit hard for atomic sized bullets. Solar Wind particles are exactly the same sorts of things, though they are moving more slowly, only a fraction of the speed of light.
But still they move at tens or hundreds of thousands of of Kilometers per hour.
The force fields generated by your magnetosphere don't stop the rays like those in Science Fiction shows do, they instead bend the path and sometimes slow them down. Some magnetic fields can also speed them up. What our natural force field, the magnetosphere that is, actually does is to bend them around us. The rays still strike the Earth, but they do so in the upper atmosphere at the poles. There they form the Aurora Borealis or the Northern (or Southern) lights. They also bend the Solar Wind downwards, so it doesn't strip off much of our atmosphere. Look up the Van Allen Radiation Belts if you want to learn more.
I don't want to discourage you. I doubt that Mr. Catastrophe does either. What we want to do is to encourage you to study and learn more. As you do so, you may just find ways to do things that we older folks don't know about. That's how our society learns after all. I do know a lot, but I don't know everything. As I said in a previous post, we point out ways that your current posted ideas have problems with. True Genius takes those problems and invents a way around them.
To do that really, you have to learn more. More Math and Science especially. You should try to do this. You have made a good start. Go on right through the University programs when you are ready for them. They will make you able to see things you cannot yet see clearly. But don't give up what you have now as you do so. It is valuable.
The vaporizing idea wasn't silly. It was however impractical. Yes, heat can liberate some gasses. But heat up and cool down take time. Thousands of years in the case of something the size of a planet. Doing the same thing on a local level takes less time. We call that process Industry. You will find there is rather a lot of it going on around you right now.
So don't give up and don't stop trying, but do study and learn and try new things.
I sincerely hope that you can in a few years show me a thing or two that I hadn't considered to be possible. That's what real Genius's do.
Bob

Indian Genius
Those are the words of a wise man, and I agree with everything he posted.
One point: You may passionately hold some theory. It may have many aspects. If one is fatal to the whole idea, do not jump to another part of the argument. If the body of the theory has a heart which has stopped beating do not try to resuscitate the left little toe.
Do not be discouraged. Things change over a long life and, as you know, I will be 81 next Sunday if the coronavirus does not get me first. (I am confident that it won't
There will be other ideas worthy of your attention including ideas which are flawless and you will win every argument because you are RIGHT not just because you believe in the idea.
With all best wishes
Cat

 

[IG2007]

Smaller is usually better for first tries. That is often what "economic" means. Big things come later when you can pay for them with what you learn by small things.
Yes, a little magnetic field can be made and it has been proposed by NASA people in the past. This isn't for protecting an entire planet however, but for protecting a single spacecraft. So far no one has ever built one that big to the best of my knowledge.
Cosmic Rays are little atomic nuclei moving at close to the speed of light. They hit hard for atomic sized bullets. Solar Wind particles are exactly the same sorts of things, though they are moving more slowly, only a fraction of the speed of light.
But still they move at tens or hundreds of thousands of of Kilometers per hour.
The force fields generated by your magnetosphere don't stop the rays like those in Science Fiction shows do, they instead bend the path and sometimes slow them down. Some magnetic fields can also speed them up. What our natural force field, the magnetosphere that is, actually does is to bend them around us. The rays still strike the Earth, but they do so in the upper atmosphere at the poles. There they form the Aurora Borealis or the Northern (or Southern) lights. They also bend the Solar Wind downwards, so it doesn't strip off much of our atmosphere. Look up the Van Allen Radiation Belts if you want to learn more.
I don't want to discourage you. I doubt that Mr. Catastrophe does either. What we want to do is to encourage you to study and learn more. As you do so, you may just find ways to do things that we older folks don't know about. That's how our society learns after all. I do know a lot, but I don't know everything. As I said in a previous post, we point out ways that your current posted ideas have problems with. True Genius takes those problems and invents a way around them.
To do that really, you have to learn more. More Math and Science especially. You should try to do this. You have made a good start. Go on right through the University programs when you are ready for them. They will make you able to see things you cannot yet see clearly. But don't give up what you have now as you do so. It is valuable.
The vaporizing idea wasn't silly. It was however impractical. Yes, heat can liberate some gasses. But heat up and cool down take time. Thousands of years in the case of something the size of a planet. Doing the same thing on a local level takes less time. We call that process Industry. You will find there is rather a lot of it going on around you right now.
So don't give up and don't stop trying, but do study and learn and try new things.
I sincerely hope that you can in a few years show me a thing or two that I hadn't considered to be possible. That's what real Genius's do.
Bob

Sir Bob,

Let's talk about the last few lines of yours, I have discovered something that may shake the world (though I don't think so, I am just exaggerating). 4 years back, when I was of 8 years, I was gifted a Remote-Controlled Car on my birthday. After a few months, due to my restless-nature, I had opened up the remote and I had lost the antenna made of copper. I was wondering what should I do? Then, I took an A4 size paper(I later learnt it is an insulator)from my dad's printer and folded it like the copper antenna was folded and fixed to the point on which the antenna was attached on the remote. Now, when I pressed the keys of the remote, the car really moved! And, I played with it like a kid and then threw away the paper into the dustbin. Now, at a n age of 12, I understand that the thing I had done was quite crazy. Impossible. This proves that radio waves do travel through insulators.

Yeah, I am still thinking about theories. Thank you Sir Catastrophe and I am wishing you a Happy 2nd year of Octagenarian-ship in advance! And thank you for not discouraging me to you both.

Sayonara, IG.

 

[Catastrophe]

Sir Bob,

Let's talk about the last few lines of yours, I have discovered something that may shake the world (though I don't think so, I am just exaggerating). 4 years back, when I was of 8 years, I was gifted a Remote-Controlled Car on my birthday. After a few months, due to my restless-nature, I had opened up the remote and I had lost the antenna made of copper. I was wondering what should I do? Then, I took an A4 size paper(I later learnt it is an insulator)from my dad's printer and folded it like the copper antenna was folded and fixed to the point on which the antenna was attached on the remote. Now, when I pressed the keys of the remote, the car really moved! And, I played with it like a kid and then threw away the paper into the dustbin. Now, at a n age of 12, I understand that the thing I had done was quite crazy. Impossible. This proves that radio waves do travel through insulators.

Yeah, I am still thinking about theories. Thank you Sir Catastrophe and I am wishing you a Happy 2nd year of Octagenarian-ship in advance! And thank you for not discouraging me to you both.

Sayonara, IG.

Thank you for your kind Birthday wishes. Of course we are encouraging you. We know that you will make something special of your life.
Best wishes,
Cat

 

[SpaceTrice]

I think this thread is getting a little off topic, but I'd like to take it back to terraforming... I believe we can practice for life on the edge and terraforming if we start with making sustainable colonies a little closer to home, in our oceans. Not to terraform the oceans, obviously, but to learn how to make sustainable places to live in unforgiving environments, and then take those learnings to the moon, other planets in our solar system, or even beyond.

When I was a kid, I dreamed about living in a place like that, and it's always stayed with me.

 

[Catastrophe]

I agree practice is beneficial, and time frame will be important, but it depends on your long term strategy. If it is to escape from an expanding Sun in 5 billion years time, I think the effort would be better directed to limiting population now.

If it is in practice (if the inverted pressure characteristics are satisfied) then by all means practice in the oceans. Better still, improve our own planet where we now have deserts for example. If we must overpopulate then perhaps finding new habitats may be useful. But if you practise

If it is to find a refuge for other pressing reasons then perhaps we should look to the Moon or Mars. But as you will NEVER (under existing conditions) completely terraform either of these then it will be for limited colonies only.

Cat

 

[YetAnotherBob]

Thank you for your kind Birthday wishes. Of course we are encouraging you. We know that you will make something special of your life.
Best wishes,
Cat

Ditto

 

[YetAnotherBob]

Sir Bob,

Let's talk about the last few lines of yours, I have discovered something that may shake the world (though I don't think so, I am just exaggerating). 4 years back, when I was of 8 years, I was gifted a Remote-Controlled Car on my birthday. After a few months, due to my restless-nature, I had opened up the remote and I had lost the antenna made of copper. I was wondering what should I do? Then, I took an A4 size paper(I later learnt it is an insulator)from my dad's printer and folded it like the copper antenna was folded and fixed to the point on which the antenna was attached on the remote. Now, when I pressed the keys of the remote, the car really moved! And, I played with it like a kid and then threw away the paper into the dustbin. Now, at a n age of 12, I understand that the thing I had done was quite crazy. Impossible. This proves that radio waves do travel through insulators.

Yeah, I am still thinking about theories. Thank you Sir Catastrophe and I am wishing you a Happy 2nd year of Octagenarian-ship in advance! And thank you for not discouraging me to you both.

Sayonara, IG.

You were right. Paper antennas are in fact a thing. They generally don't work well, but sometimes... If you wish to continue that push, you might investigate some things from the ARRL. (Amateur Radio Relay League). It's an international club of radio enthusiasts. You would be enchanted with that group.
But wear a thick skin. There will be some few who might not be very encouraging.

 

[Catastrophe]

" Thank you Sir Catastrophe and I am wishing you a Happy 2nd year of Octagenarian-ship in advance!"

Thank you Indian Genius and Everyone else who knew.
I have now reached 81 years and it goes to show that you are never too old to make friends and to encourage people.
My best wishes to you all
Cat

 

[YetAnotherBob]

I think this thread is getting a little off topic, but I'd like to take it back to terraforming... I believe we can practice for life on the edge and terraforming if we start with making sustainable colonies a little closer to home, in our oceans. Not to terraform the oceans, obviously, but to learn how to make sustainable places to live in unforgiving environments, and then take those learnings to the moon, other planets in our solar system, or even beyond.

When I was a kid, I dreamed about living in a place like that, and it's always stayed with me.

Already been done. There have been numerous habitats build underwater. NASA even operates a few of them. Most are simple shacks. Some as refuges for researchers, some few for construction crews. To build bigger there would have to be some economic reason to do so.
BTW the same is true for the Moon or perhaps Mars. Right now, we don't really need for large or even medium groups of people to be living under water. (Or in spite of what I might say, on the Moon.)
Oh, and to Terraform means to make a world like Earth. Somewhere between 3/4 and 4/5 of earths surface is covered by water, so on the whole, any true terraforming will have to includ vast swaths of water environment. We don't terraform the oceans, the oceans terraform us. Think about it.

 

[Catastrophe]

Y A B
Re: Terraforming. I take your point about perfect replication of Earth (in principle) but since we currently do not inhabit the oceans to any significant extent I think most would accept forming a world to emulate Earth in those respects important for survival. In theory we might argue to replicate Earth's creatures including scorpions and locusts, Earth's diseases including virus strains, Earth's weather including hurricanes and floods. Obviously tax payers' money would not be forthcoming.
Anyway, apologies for the more extreme comparisons; I think the point would be accepted without recourse.
Cat

 

[YetAnotherBob]

Y A B
Re: Terraforming. I take your point about perfect replication of Earth (in principle) but since we currently do not inhabit the oceans to any significant extent I think most would accept forming a world to emulate Earth in those respects important for survival. In theory we might argue to replicate Earth's creatures including scorpions and locusts, Earth's diseases including virus strains, Earth's weather including hurricanes and floods. Obviously tax payers' money would not be forthcoming.
Anyway, apologies for the more extreme comparisons; I think the point would be accepted without recourse.
Cat

Earths oceans do an enourmous amount of modification of the air we breathe. I doubt that any system can be devised to do the same thing passively without having that enormous amount of water area.
Mechanically, yes, we can. but that takes a lot of active management. Just look at all the trouble the Biosphere projects had.
I do hope I am wrong. It will make the colonization of space so much easier if we don't need all that liquid for bacteria and algae.
But yes, I would like to leave a few things out. However, considering the present pandemic, we don't seem able to do that very well, do we?

 

[Catastrophe]

Are we disagreeing over this? Thank you for pointing out the role or large water requirements. I was not aware of this and it is yet another nail in the coffin of 'complete' terraforming.
Well, I did apologise in advance for the more extreme examples, but I did make the point. Sorry.

Cat

 

[YetAnotherBob]

Are we disagreeing over this? Thank you for pointing out the role or large water requirements. I was not aware of this and it is yet another nail in the coffin of 'complete' terraforming.
Well, I did apologise in advance for the more extreme examples, but I did make the point. Sorry.

Cat

I took it as a discussion, not a disagreement. Certainly not an argument. You appear to be a gentleman.

 

[Catastrophe]

Well thank you, kind Sir. I appreciate that.
You posted: "I do hope I am wrong. It will make the colonization of space so much easier if we don't need all that liquid for bacteria and algae."

Space is a big place. You may find your other Earth.
If we are just thinking about the Moon and Mars, then I believe they are both total non-starters for terraforming.
Conversely, they are both runners for colonisation.
Nothing is ever certain. I see the only short term danger which inspires thoughts of terraforming other planets is the very likely danger of asteroid impact, This could happen tonight. Expansion of the Sun, we are talking gradual change over billions of years.
Of course we should differentiate between what destroys the planet and what destroys one unimportant species. Of course we think we are important - so did the dinosaurs, probably

Cat

BTW Another possibility of ending the human race is viral attack or mutation thereof. Might not happen for a hundred years.