Time travel - where to and where

[pmn1]

If you had the opportunity to go back in time, when would you go back to and where, given getting there from where you are now may be difficult depending on when you went back to. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[drwayne]

In all likelyhood a one way trip eh?<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[pmn1]

<font color="yellow">In all likelyhood a one way trip eh? </font><br /><br />yep. one chance, no convenient escaping if you get it wrong - choose wisely..... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Any constraints on what you can take with you?<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[ordinary_guy]

Hm... It seems to me that if you can get that fourth dimension down, the other three shouldn't be that difficult. If they're a little difficult, then they'd probably be absolutely impossible.<br /><br />Consider if they just crammed you in the chamber of the way-back machine, spin the dial and hit the "on" button. If there's no spatial control, you've got one of two bad situations:<br /><br /> 1.) You keep your spatial position relative to the earth. If they built their way-back machine underground and you go back 2,000 years – you'll materialize into solid rock. That would be bad. Going above ground might not be the greatest either unless you've got training in BASE jumping before you go (and get lucky not have some bird passing through the volume when you materialize).<br /> 2.) You go backwards in absolute spatial position. Suddenly, the earth slips out from underneath you and flies back and away some 800,000 light years to where it was 2,000 years ago.<br /><br />But assuming you can get past all that...?<br />Dunno. Have to think about it some more. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px"><strong>Mere precedent is a dangerous source of authority.</strong></p> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px">-Andrew Jackson (1767-1845)</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Yeah but, what can I take back with me????????<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">Yeah but, what can I take back with me???????? </font><br /><br />You mean like family? Favorite pets? A hundred years' worth of stocks data? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[ordinary_guy]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Yeah but, what can I take back with me???????? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />A roll of duct tape and a paper clip. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px"><strong>Mere precedent is a dangerous source of authority.</strong></p> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px">-Andrew Jackson (1767-1845)</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Am I restricted in the manner of the Terminator movies to going back naked? Can I carry devices? A solar calculator?<br /><br />Lets say I wanted to be on the Titanic starting on April 12, 1912. Can I carry a survival suit?<br /><br />That sort of thing.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[pmn1]

<font color="yellow">Any constraints on what you can take with you?</font><br /><br />Yourself (clothed) and whatever you can remember - if I say you can take a lap-top back then i cant see any way of not taking weapons back... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ordinary_guy]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p> Yourself (clothed) and whatever you can remember<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />If clothed, why not anything else? Zippers, eyelets, snaps, buttons... once you've moved away from hair and fingernails, what's the effective difference between a zipper and a pocket knife? Is it a metallic issue? How about if I have an EOD-issue non-magnetic ceramic knife?<br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>if I say you can take a lap-top back then i cant see any way of not taking weapons back...<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Why would you bring back either? A lap-top is only going to last as long as the battery, unless you've got a got a knowledge of power generation (or haul portable solar panels with you, too). Even then, your hard drive will eventually wear out (assuming the delicate magnetic media wasn't affected by the journey itself). Which means... you lose all access to your encyclopedia. Better start transcribing onto stone tablets as soon as you get there...<br /><br />Same goes for "weapon." Unless you're carrying a ray gun powered by it's own Zero-point cell, you're gonna run out of ammo real quick (depending on where and when you go). Best to train into available methods indigenous to the time/place. If you're going back further than, say, the renaissance, study up on salt peter before you go and make your weapons once you get there. It'll be the sure way to keep yourself stocked up. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px"><strong>Mere precedent is a dangerous source of authority.</strong></p> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px">-Andrew Jackson (1767-1845)</p> </div>

 

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">Am I restricted in the manner of the Terminator movies to going back naked? Can I carry devices? A solar calculator? <br /><br />Lets say I wanted to be on the Titanic starting on April 12, 1912. Can I carry a survival suit?</font><br /><br />Well... novelist Connie Willis, my personal favorite time travel expert, would say (I think) that we can take back whatever we like. But that temporal law would prohibit us from bringing back with us anything that would change the timeline by virtue of its absense.<br /><br />I interpret this to mean you can take whatever you can carry. But if you lose the clothes you're wearing, you might have to <i>return</i> nekkid.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[lampblack]

Of course, I didn't initiate the thread. But those are the rules I would propose. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[pmn1]

<font color="yellow">If clothed, why not anything else? Zippers, eyelets, snaps, buttons... once you've moved away from hair and fingernails, what's the effective difference between a zipper and a pocket knife? Is it a metallic issue? How about if I have an EOD-issue non-magnetic ceramic knife? </font><br /><br />I said clothed so reduce the amount of problems you might have, you are going to have enough problems anyway and arriving naked is not going to help. So clothes only (buttons).<br /><br /><br /><font color="yellow">Why would you bring back either? A lap-top is only going to last as long as the battery, unless you've got a got a knowledge of power generation (or haul portable solar panels with you, too). Even then, your hard drive will eventually wear out (assuming the delicate magnetic media wasn't affected by the journey itself). Which means... you lose all access to your encyclopedia. Better start transcribing onto stone tablets as soon as you get there... <br /><br />Same goes for "weapon." Unless you're carrying a ray gun powered by it's own Zero-point cell, you're gonna run out of ammo real quick (depending on where and when you go). Best to train into available methods indigenous to the time/place. If you're going back further than, say, the renaissance, study up on salt peter before you go and make your weapons once you get there. It'll be the sure way to keep yourself stocked up. </font><br /><br />I mention lap-top as that is what Tony Williams's character in his book The Foresight War (see Time Travel Episodes thread) finds he has gone back with - I thought this a bit dubious but to be fair you dont hear of it being used much - mainly airflow patterns over aircraft etc.<br /><br />However, the pound coin he had in his pocket was quite useful in getting Henry Tizzard's (he of radar fame) attention so he could at least speak to him....<br /><br />So rules are clothes only with buttons (but you can take them off if you want to) and the knowl <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[drwayne]

So you would go back with an agenda to change things?<br />(As opposed to live/witness the times in a detached manner)<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[ordinary_guy]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>So you would go back with an agenda to change things? <br />(As opposed to live/witness the times in a detached manner)<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />I've thought about that myself. There's a complication to simply recording history: that 'sensitive dependence on initial conditions' circumstance (the "butterfly effect" or whatever it's called). Like sort of an existential uncertainty principle, merely being in the system will change the system – especially if you're close enough to record/witness major events first hand. While you may attempt to keep it to a minimum, there will be a cascade of change from the moment you entered the timeline, starting with the most subtle effects and potentially growing.<br /><br />While none of the change may ever amount to anything dramatic (similar net effects), the timeline in its purest sense will change. Somebody in history will have to step around the time traveler, this will affect their thought pattern, they'll meet somebody different, marry a different girl, then suddenly 25 generations that contributed before (for better or worse) cease to exist and a different 25 generations make different contributions.<br /><br />All you had to do was show up.<br /><br /><i>Which inspires three thoughts:</i><br /><br /> 1.) If you're going to go back at all, you might as well take the bull by the horns and effect change. Change the bad thing, then note that everything after that is going to change. Stock quotes, sports outcomes and lottery number will all likely change. Any advantage you might've had will go out the window as the change cascades from your point of entry.<br /><br /> 2.) Since I don't wish to cease to exist, take me back with you.<br />  a. On the bright side, ceasing to exist would probably be painless and instant, if not faster.<br />  b. How does time work? Is there really an "arrow of time"? Would the timeline self-correct anyway (possibly each moment potentially irrevocably fro <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px"><strong>Mere precedent is a dangerous source of authority.</strong></p> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px">-Andrew Jackson (1767-1845)</p> </div>

 

[ascan1984]

This is a great post. It really made me think. i am 23 years old. So you may understand why i made this choice. I would like to travel back to 1985. The rational for this is that that year was an important one for things that are important to me. For example back to the future was released that year so i would like to see it in the cinema when it was being viewed for the first time. I always consider for me 1985 to be the year the space shuttle program was at its height the golden era if you will. I would like to have gone to see a speeches by the STS 51L crew, to get my questions answered and to see bands and artists such as madonna and bruce srpingsteen when they were at their best(as far as my musical tastes). To be able to whitness as this as although i was alive back in thoe years i was not old enough to experience all of that. It also just happens to be 20 years ago. That is why i choose 1985. North america 1985 How cool would that be. but i believe everything happens fr a reason so even though it would be painfull i would try not to say anything. I would also like to see my three year old self.<br />Pretty crazy eh.

 

[summoner]

I just got done reading Weber's "Apocolypse Troll". The book dealt with many of the same issues. He solved the time paradox by allowing the timeline to branch. As soon as the main character and the aliens she was chasing made it back in time, the line split. There was the original time that she knew as history, and a new time line that she created by going back in time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <br /><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width:271px;background-color:#FFF;border:1pxsolid#999"><tr><td colspan="2"><div style="height:35px"><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/htmlSticker1/language/www/US/MT/Three_Forks.gif" alt="" height="35" width="271" style="border:0px" /></div>

 

[drwayne]

That is a very common way of dealing with the issues of time travel.<br /><br />Here is a question that I have not seen addressed in fiction before. When one goes back in time, and the time travelor branch is created, is it possible that a the new branch is subject to different temporal event factors (BS term I just made up) - such that events on the new time line may in fact be different than on the original timeline. The information that you have in your mind about how things will unfold may in fact be no longer valid.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[ordinary_guy]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>The information that you have in your mind about how things will unfold may in fact be no longer valid.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Sorta like the "butterfly effect"...? Once you're in the system, the system changes, things unfold differently, very minor at first, cascading into larger changes down the road...? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px"><strong>Mere precedent is a dangerous source of authority.</strong></p> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px">-Andrew Jackson (1767-1845)</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Sounds like it.<br /><br />I still think in the back of my minds was the assumption that the big picture stuff - Titanic sinks in 1912, Hitler is a bad guy - would not change. Perhaps that is not as good an assumption as I thought.<br /><br />Kind of screws up this gedanken experiment though, so forget my babbling.<br /><br />I am still thinking by the way.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[pmn1]

<font color="yellow">Here is a question that I have not seen addressed in fiction before. When one goes back in time, and the time travelor branch is created, is it possible that a the new branch is subject to different temporal event factors (BS term I just made up) - such that events on the new time line may in fact be different than on the original timeline. The information that you have in your mind about how things will unfold may in fact be no longer valid. </font><br /><br />I think something like that gets mentioned by one of the Special forces guys in the Proteus Operation.<br /><br />I would say yes, the more you interfere, the quicker changes to what you remember will happen - thus in my scenario, I need to end the war as quick as possible and for that I need US manpower and industrial capacity fully involved so i'm not going to do much until Germany declares war on America December 11th 1941 - I'll try to get into a position where i can influence equipment development to be in service from December 1941 but be very wary of doing anything that changes events even if it mean things like Singapore falling, Pearl Harbour attacked (sorry to the US posters) etc still happen. <br /><br />You could say, why dont you kill Hitler, well the problem is not so much Hitler as the whole Nazi system and killing Hitler wont stop that, you could just postpone the war until 1945, 1950 etc with all that means including the possibility of someone who knows how to run the war. <br /><br />I cant be confident of any way to stop the Nazis from emerging so i would have to let them energe and do some of their worst to show the world what happens when you let extremists take control but finish them quickly and this is where the US comes in although there is a thread here<br /><br />http://p216.ezboard.com/fwarships1discussionboardsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=7201.topic<</safety_wrapper> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[pmn1]

<font color="yellow">So you would go back with an agenda to change things? <br />(As opposed to live/witness the times in a detached manner) </font><br /><br />Well, one of my friends is 37 next week and when asked what he wanted he said 'the last 20 or so years of my life again' to which I added, with the memories of what went wrong???<br /><br />But anyway, see my post above...<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Actually, I was talking about the notion that, even if you personally did absolutely nothing, that things could unfold completely differently from your memories, because of the new branch in the time stream being subject to temporal torques and forces that are different than the timeline of your memory.<br /><br />You pop back in time in Kansas, two seconds later, Hitler is run over by a car and killed. The Titanic just misses the iceberg.<br /><br />You get the picture. Time stream forces that subtly (or dramatically) impact how things unfold as a function of time.<br /><br />Maybe nature conspires to make the information of a time travelor useless on his/her new branch.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[pmn1]

<font color="yellow">Maybe nature conspires to make the information of a time travelor useless on his/her new branch. </font><br /><br />nature does love a jest.....<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>