White Sands

[georgeniebling]

At this time, considering RTF, under what circumstances would a Shuttle return to White Sands as opposed to Edwards or KSC?<br /><br />Also ... was the White Sands landing (STS-3?) really necessary or was it an "operational test"?

 

[najab]

><i>At this time, considering RTF, under what circumstances would a Shuttle return to White Sands as opposed to Edwards or KSC?</i><p>The Orbiter would land at WSSH if the primary landing site (KSC) was observed no-go and forecast no-go for a third successive day of landing attempts. In that case a decision would be made as to the merits of EAFB vs WSSH. Before STS-107 EAFB would have been the automatic choice, however flying into Edwards requires the orbiter to overfly the populous California coast. WSSH has the disadvantage of being the more austere location, so it's 50/50 which they would choose to use.<br /><p>><i>Also ... was the White Sands landing (STS-3?) really necessary or was it an "operational test"?</i><p>The crew of STS-3 had been suffering from severe dehydration - they suspected the drinking water was tainted and had refused to drink it. EAFB was unavilable due to bad weather (high winds if memory serves correct). I can't remember why KSC wasn't available, I believe though that it hadn't yet been certified for landings.<p>The landing at NOR was very much necessary.</p></p></p></p>

 

[drwayne]

I found this:<br /><br />"Landing site changed from Edwards to White Sands due to wet conditions on Edwards dry lake bed landing site. High winds at White Sands resulted in one-day extension of mission."<br /><br />I would suspect - make this a guess and the teacher will tell me later I am wrong, that landing at White Sands would probably be the result of conditions like weather at all other sites that staying in orbit doesn't fix. Not a last resort, but you can probabl see the last resort from there.<br /><br />Wayne<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

The link to what I found:<br /><br />http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/chron/sts-3.htm<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[najab]

><i>The auto land was a mistake that nearly wiped out the Orbiter but that is another story. Buy me a beer or two and I will tell you.</i><p>I shall buy you those beers in September, so you better have a few good stories to go with them. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /></p>

 

[drwayne]

Someone posted a movie of that a while back, and I think SG posted a strip chart on it.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

The even worse part about White Sands is that the gypsum, when it gets wet, effectively becomes damn cement.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

My wife and I both have bumper stickers I brough back from one of my many trips to WSMR. It says:<br /><br />Yes, I Am A Rocket Scientist<br />White Sands Missile Range<br /><br />Wayne<br /><br />p.s. If you are wondering about the 3 posts, I am getting within smelling distance of "Solar System" - look for even more Wayne babling <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

Doc, that's disgraceful!<br /><br />Er, what do you mean I'm only 3 off asteroid? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Hmmm, lets start a LONG argument about it!<br /><br />rofl at me....<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Serving meaningles garbage for 2008 posts!<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Seriously though, googling around discovered this:<br /><br />White Sands prepared for emergency shuttle landing <br />Source: AP<br /> <br /> <br />WHITE SANDS MISSILE RANGE, N.M. -- NASA will need to provide additional equipment at White Sands Missile Range for any emergency space shuttle landings.<br />White Sands Space Harbor manager Bob Mitchell says an 800-foot crane would be needed to mount the shuttle atop a Boeing 747 airplane to return the shuttle to Cape Canaveral.<br /><br />White Sands is a backup landing site for space shuttle missions.<br /><br />The only time a shuttle has used the site was for the Columbia in March 1982.<br /><br />A crane was shipped to White Sands to take the Columbia back to Cape Canaveral.<br /><br />Mitchell says White Sands always has been ready if called upon.<br /><br />He says improvements to the facility have continued to be made and the space harbor is in good shape.<br /><br />Found here:<br />http://www.krqe.com/expanded.asp?ID=9229<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

Hmmm, define 'smelling distance'? I see you with just over 2000 posts so either solar system kicks in at 2010, or you have impressive nasal capabilities! <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />As an aside, AlexBlackwell is online. I hope this signals his intention to contribute once more here at SDC. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

I just downloaded a QuickTime movie of the White Sands landing from SpaceFlight Now(I subscribed to their plus service, so I am downloading anything remotely interesting).<br /><br />Its a little freaky at the end, fron wheel get to 3 feet, the wheelie back up.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

2056 is not that far away!<br /><br />Alex Blackwell. Cool!<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

One other interesting White Sands link:<br /><br />http://yarchive.net/space/white_sands.html<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Thats the difference between you and me, what *you* post is memorable.<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

That was the landing when the tail of the Orbiter nearly got a spot of impromtu sand-blasting, correct?<br /><br />If I remember rightly, didn't that landing have negative consequence for Young's career? Perhaps I am getting my landings mixed up. However, if I am on base about this, it's hard not to feel a great deal of sympathy for Young. He was, after all, as sick as the proverbial dog. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Oops, I meant 2048 posts - can't remember binary...senile...<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Sounds like you and I are talking about the same flight.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Yep, I had the crew wrong...<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

Yeah, I thought this would be my asteroid post, but it seems like I don't understand binary either!<br /><br />However, I am going to link John Young, landing the Orbiter, and my experiences in a particularly pleasing way (to me at least) in what should have been my asteroid post.<br /><br />Some who recall my occasional rantings on here will remember I was going to a space exhibition at NZ's national museum earlier this year. Part of this exhibition involved what turned out to be a glorified video game whereby you attempted to land the Orbiter back at KSC. Although I thought a did a pretty fair job, I didn't get wheels down until at least half way down the runway, then proceeded (with the help of a pathetically unresponsive joystick) to lift the nose up again. Had this been a real landing, they would have been picking a couple of SSME's off the tarmac. An American voice then informed me I had 'tanked' the landing.<br /><br />However, the undoubted highlights of the exhibition for me were a collection of items in two small glass cases. The first contained a piece of moon rock, encased in a sphere of plastic I guess, gifted to the people of NZ from the people of the US. It was from Apollo 17, and the certificate was signed by Nixon. It case also contained a small NZ flag which apparently also flew on that mission.<br /><br />The second glass case had another of the same small NZ flags (poorly screenprinted, NASA should look for a better supplier for those!), along with a certificate to say it had flown on STS-1. The certificate was signed by the aforementioned John Young and Bob Crippen. Another gift from the people of the US to us over here. I have to say, absolutely awe-inspiring to see those items. I would have taken photos but they seemed quite neo-nazi about doing that, which was disappointing as it wasn't like you could buy postcards with those items on at the gift shop.<br /><br />So, there you have it. Bad landings and John Young all in one post! Sorry for <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[shuttle_rtf]

STS-3's landing was a scare to watch. Question on that, when the rotation seems to stop and the nose rises again, you can hear what appears to be an increase in power, before settling down and the nose rotating to the deck?<br /><br />What am I listening to? APUs?<br /><br />

 

[rvastro]

...for Lousma: "You almost wreaked a <br />$%#$# multi billion dollar machine. Get outta my face....you are never flying again....." <br /><br />I heard that he was very PO'd after that landing.

 

[najab]

Hey! You're telling all my beer stories! <img src="/images/icons/mad.gif" /><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />