Michael Lembeck wrote today this article:<br />http://www.space.com/adastra/adastra_lembeck_060615.html<br /><br />I enjoyed reading this article and tend to agree with him. <br /><br />It seems that in exploring space (...or..whatever we're exploring) it seems to comback to sharing ideas, friendship, etc. (and drinking beer with your buddies). I remember on the History channel some WWII vets from Nrormandy invasion recalled that you fight the enemy, then they surrender and they show you pictures of their family and all of the sudden the enemy becomes human, even a comrade.<br /><br />Perhaps doing exploration with friends and sharing them in making new friends is a more powerful force than politics. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
- Status
Great article, just read it. <br /><br />I like Carl Sagan's position on "why space?": The dinosaurs didn't have a space program, therefore didn't survive.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>
If this friendship-approach to space exploration works, that is of course fine.<br /><br />But I believe that the real reason everyone is talking about missions to the Moon and beyond is a less friendly competition between countries.<br /><br />The government and people in the USA seem a little bit worried that other countries (especially China) talk about landing on the Moon. Such a program would mean a huge leap forward in Chinese technology and know-how, which in turn has an effect on a lot of things, ranging from economy, trade and politics to national pride and prestige. Some of the technologies involved might even have military uses. <br /><br />If China was to land people on the Moon while USA only did LEO, a lot of people would very quickly forget all about Apollo and the fact that USA was there first. People (especially outside of USA) would claim that Chinese technology had surpassed American technology.<br /><br />However, if the American space program gets all the way to moon landings without cancellation, this will have several positive effects on the entire country. Apart from national pride and prestige, American companies would use this program to develop technologically. This would of course be very welcome by the big aerospace companies, but also a lot of other industries would gain from this. And it doesn't matter if China lands in 2017 and USA in 2018. This would still mean that USA isn't left behind in low Earth orbit.<br /><br />I don't view a space program as <i>spending</i> money as much as it is <i>investing</i> money. It might cost X billion dollars, but if it provides jobs, elevates the technological know-how of companies and the country in general and boosts national pride, it's worth every dollar.<br /><br /><br />Besides, space program news are the only news (apart from some sports news) that are happy news. I watched CNN around the time of Discovery's RTF launch last year. There were stories about war, natural disasters, disease epidemics, sufferin <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff9900">----------------------------------</font></p><p><font color="#ff9900">My minds have many opinions</font></p> </div>
>Besides, space program news are the only news (apart from some sports news) that are happy news. I watched CNN around the time of Discovery's RTF launch last year. There were stories about war, natural disasters, disease epidemics, suffering and pain, just as there always is. But then there was the news about Discovery's liftoff. The news anchors smiled and everybody was joking and laughing. Then it was back to the sad news again. But for a few moments, the news was about something positive and awe-inspiring. Space program news is the only kind of news I know that can do that.<br /><<br /><br />Good Point. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
It's a question I'm asked frequently when discussing the VSE to people. What good is it? I'm always looking for better answers to give people.
Meh. I give this article a 5/10 for inspirational value.<br /><br />Here is why we are going back to the moon... and I'm not going to argue the purpose of space travel because that is obvious... (but just to remind everyone), we explore the volume above our atmostphere because IT'S THERE, and it has always been mankind's gut instict to see what is beyond the metaphorical horizon and rise above his limitations and overcome the challenges that he is presented with.<br /><br /><br />I'm starting to think I should write a hard-science-fiction screenplay about the beginning stages of the development of the solar system. And then I'd definatly want Paul Verhoven to direct it. It would be dark and gritty, like Battle Star Galactica but no aliens or mutants. People are plenty evil.<br /><br />Hmm, I'm going to compose my thoughts off-forum first.<br /><br />
It's a nice article but covers no new ground for me.<br /><br />I have a very straightforward, yet all-encompassing reason for space travel. It amazes me that no one here ever discusses it, no matter how many times I re-post it. I guess I've got it figured out and y'all are just unable to engage your mind when the concept is too broad. Either that or y'all are too proud to discuss a real answer to the central question of future spaceflight simply because you didn't come up with the answer yourself.<br /><br />I'll check back later on this thread to see if anyone is actually intrerested in a substantive answer to this critical question. Based on experience, I expect not. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
Spacester<br /><br />You have een a valued contributor in the past. Why don't you share your opinions with us?<br /><br />And why are so so bitter about us here?<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em> Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
BarryKirk:<br />It's a question I'm asked frequently when discussing the VSE to people. What good is it? I'm always looking for better answers to give people.<br /><br />Me:<br />The average taxpaying Joe could care less about space exploration unless he or she is already interested. Therefore, the usual arguments including the reasons cited in the Lembeck article won't sway them. What might sway them is related to simple dollars and the way most folks think. Tax dollars being percieved as ill spent is whats going to matter to the average taxpayer and most of them do not think "Why should we cut NASA when we ought to be focusing on the deficit".<br /><br />If space spending is mentioned, many people see it as a luxury we can ill afford while at the same time we can afford $100 billion a year to rebuild Iraq. Or worse yet, maintain a $400 plus billion per year deficit. Once folks realize that $400 billion a year deficit is at least twice what has been spent on NASA in its entire existence, they may see things a bit differently. For one thing, the idea money saved on NASA budget cuts can be better spent on something else, is right out the window. Not only that, once people realize that even if we cut NASA to spend on curing disease of eliminating poverty for example, that the savings will be wasted by the government anyway. The futility of the "Money better spent" argument becomes obvious. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>
Jon,<br /><br />If I can find one person here with the ability to demonstrate a truly open mind, and if that person is willing to enter a discussion with me on MY perspective on the title question - rather than having it completely ignored as is the past - we can work towards the answer to your question. <br /><br />Y'all will no doubt do the projection thing and assume/conclude that this is all about my ego and hurt feelings. I can assure you that it runs much deeper than that and is of a philosophical nature. If there is such an individual here, I can assure them that the intellectual journey will be worth their sustained efforts<br /><br />I do not think that level of quality in the regular posters here exists anymore. They all went away during the extended period of time while the people with the special colored names did nothing but wring their hands.<br /><br />The ONLY reason I am still here is that this site has the killer URL of all space fan sites and thus I can reach more people than other sites. It certainly is not because of any respect for Imaginova or their toadies. These boards receive no respect from our masters, and respect works both ways.<br /><br />IMO it is not enough to say "I own this URL and you'll do as I say" when you have established an URL which is the most generic and thus most easily remembered and discovered for its field. Certainly not when the stakes for the future of mankind are as high as they are with spaceflight. <br /><br />I spent five years interacting with others on THEIR perspective, trusting in the goodness of human nature that someday someone would reach out to me and discuss MY perspective. It never happened, at least not with ANY of the self-appointed leaders around here. It's my turn.<br /><br />I have the answer to how to get this space age in gear and it's time to take off the gloves and pummel you people with it until your feeble, closed minds can grasp it.<br /><br />Bitter? Me? 
<div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>BTW, if I'm so valued, why can't you be bothered to get my user_id correct?<br /><br />;-) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
<i>**Deliberate bypassing of the profanity filter deleted**</i>I think we should withdraw because we need the big bucks at home. To restore and improve our own infrastructure and education. Not at some far away banana republic for the sake of some dumbass in the white house.
I asked for a participant, not just a listener who goes away when the intellectual challenge rises above the bumper sticker level.<br /><br />Read my post again please. I'm looking for a committment from at least one individual before I waste my energy here yet again.<br /><br />There are no upper case letters in my name. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
If I can find one person here with the ability to demonstrate a truly open mind, and if that person is willing to enter a discussion with me on MY perspective on the title question - rather than having it completely ignored as is the past - we can work towards the answer to your question. <br />----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Stop jerking everyone around. You are coming off as an arrogant SOB.
Sorry, I will refer to you as spacester in the future.<br /><br />OK, so why is space exploration important?<br /><br />Well, so far I know of the following reasons, some of which overlap each other.<br /><br />1) It is necessary to the continued existance of the human species.<br /><br />Do I think that homo sapiens will exist for the next 10,000 years? Absolutely not. <br />Will an intelligent life form that includes human history as their history be<br />present 10,000 years from now? Maybe.... and I think <br />that "maybe" has a lot to do with space exploration.<br /><br />2) Can space exploration teach us things about the universe that can improve the human condition,<br />other than mere survival. I believe so.<br /><br />3) Can we make a profit from space exploration? Possibly, in the form of spin offs from the developing the<br />technology to do the exploration. However, I believe the true profits will be made from exploiting resources in space.<br />What are those resources? We need to do space exploration to find out.<br /><br />4) Which leads to space exploration must proceed space exploitation.<br /><br />5) and space exploration must proceed space colonization and space colonization is probably<br />necessary for the continued existance of humanity.<br /><br />6) Space exploration can possibly teach us things about<br />nature that we can use to our advantage on the ground.<br />Let me be more specific and provide an example.<br /><br />Venus is 0.72 AU from the sun, therefore it receives about 1.92 times the solar energy input / unit area as the sun. <br />According to http://www.nineplanets.org/venus.html<br /><br />Venus has it's surface temperature raised by 400 K due to runaway greenhouse effect. Venus's atmosphere is mostly CO2.<br /><br />Can we duplicate that here on earth on a planet wide scale? It might be a good idea to do some exploration to find out the answer to that question.<br /><br />Runaway gre
I'm aware of that.<br /><br />5 years of politeness accomplished nothing.<br /><br />I'm here to get something done.<br /><br />Rather than point out the obvious, why don't you commit to an intellectual exercise?<br /><br />Are you and everyone else here content to remain spectators in the greatest adventure in the history of mankind, or are you more concerned with making sure everyone is polite? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
"Are you and everyone else here content to remain spectators in the greatest adventure in the history of mankind, "<br /><br />No, a few of us are actually willing to commit lives to space and have plans to do so. Others here are already there and have much to contribute. Others like me are young and seek to learn and be enlightened by others with more knowledge and experience. If you want to have a discussion you have to accept that not everyone is in the same position that you are. Some want to learn and others like shuttle_guy are treasure troves of information. That is what makes a discussion good, some people start discussions by asking questions and others answer back, or there are people who are merely exchanging ideas. Everyone here is not an intellect already, most are here because they want to be. So help everyone out and stop being critical and help continue this discussion so that we all become a little more elightened. <br /><br />Since you want a participator I will offer my opinion. Space Exploration is the next stage of exploration in general. Every stage of exploration has offered another chance for humanity to have a rebirth and make everything new again. The discovery of the New World offered the one chance for democracy to start and created a better society for all that made the whole world better overall. Exploration, discovery, and asking questions is the only thing that has ever done anything good for Earth. Exploration puts everything else in perspective by showing the world virgin territiory and prompting the populace to wake up out of mediocrity and ask why their own lives can't be better. They then decide that maybe their lives would be better over there. That is what Space Exploration will give us. It gives Earth something better then spinoffs or inventions, it gives them hope for a new start and a better life. When we have lunar colonies living better and in lives of less conflict, wasted living, and petty concerns, then those still on Earth
Why go into space? Because everyone wants to--what more reason do we need?<br /><br />Sure there are plenty of people who don't want to PAY to put people into space, but I defy you to find a person in the U.S. (probably the entire industrialized world, but I can only speak for America) who does not picture a future where space flight is common. Its such a common theme that it has become a cliche (Futurama anyone?). I don't know if its right or wrong to want this--if it will help or hurt the human race in the long run, but I know that this is what the human race WANTS. We want it so bad we sent guys off to the moon in woefully inadequate, tin-can spaceships--pushing our technology to its limits. Apollo was probably 20 years ahead of its time at least.<br /><br />I get tired of all the man vs. machine arguments and the trying to justify space exploration in terms of science and spin-offs. The simple fact is that no matter what the cost, no matter what the benefits or lack there of people will go because they want to! Why ride a roller coaster? Why read a novel? Hell, why even get out of bed in the morning? In the big scheme of things its all equally as meaningless! The idea that going over the horizon to see what's there is literally in our genes. Our ancestors who possessed this drive lived to reproduce and pass it on. Homo erectus with nothing but fire and hand axes spread throughout the entire Old World over a million years ago. Wanderlust is in our blood. So it doesn't really matter if space exploration has positive benefits or not (I think it DOES, but then again as a descendant of thousands of generations of wanderers I would.) we HAVE to do it to remain human. We WILL do it because we want to.
<i> Wanderlust is in our blood.</i><br /><br />Truer words were never written. <br /><br />Spacester- I've read your posts for a while now and generally agree with your positions. I'd like to discuss Why Space, but am to busy right now. Here are a few quick thoughts, since I'll be lurking for a while:<br /><br />A more poignant question might be "Why NOT space?" Answering that can go far in explaining where we are now, what we want to do, and how. Why not space? Cynical reasons can include social control, predominant industry(oil), religious intransignence and modern politics (pork and overregulation)can all contribute to no space. Those aspects all have corrallary positions that can contribute to space: messianic settlers, resource mining, etc. Other "no space" factors include the investor environment, the Giggle Factor, certain technical deficiencies. In the US, we are starting to suffer a drought of technical labor, this can impact not getting into space. <br /><br />Another aspect of Why Not is that up until now, most space development has been government-based. When people in the US hear "space" they think "NASA". Things are different now. We can hold a roughly-equitable debate between commercial, military and civil-govt space flight models. We live in a time when commercially buying (Russian) space stations is possible. Private space aside, a lot of people want to use NASA as another tool of control, whether it's signing Kyoto and screwing our businesses or gutting the Earth-sciences budget, it is threatened by special interests and regular politics. There are people in America that would like no spaceflight of any kind and for all the satellites to be shut down (Malthusian environmentalists).<br /><br />Spin-offs nor flags&footprint stunts can justify developing space. There must be larger reasons. The common leverage should be market economics and private interests building facilities: it is not expensive, even now, compared to other mega-corp investments. Coca-C <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>
This could be a possible, i was thinking of this when you say WanderLust in our Blood<br /><br />What if life is a game, a game of beating extinction, and knowing the truth, what if mars indeed had life, at one time, but there is no actual proof, and we orginaly came from mars, and the first of the kind was taken to earth to mind warped so no one would never know were we oringaly came, what if life is actualy a secret...<br /><br />the truth and the lies lay in between, we will never know...<br /><br />but this is a what if...<br /><br />and we where made and programed to think that our most fear is extinction, and we may not know it, our Woundering WanderLust is out source of making to want to go to the stars to seek life, or porhaps live with the life, thats what we want indeed aswell, so we could be in this game called Life, Death & Truth, Pick or it Will be Picked for You...<br /><br />we possible could have came from a far distance solar system, that no longer has life and we just may not know that, think about the past and put it togather like a puzzle only the right peices go togather in a puzzle...
To deep, not wanderlust on a galactic scale, wanterlust on a terrestrial scale. But yes, our goal is to fight extinction. Space Exploration ties into that.
spacester, you said:<br /><br />"5 years of politeness accomplished nothing."<br /><br />You could not be more wrong. You achieved a considerable reputaton and respect for an irenic and level headed contribuitor. Please do not throw this away.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em> Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
Hi spacester (wih a smal s)<br /><br />It is good to have you back in the loop. You still are very bitter it seems, after several months. After 5 years of great contribution what made you change?<br /><br />Best wishes<br /><br />Jon<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em> Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
- Status
Similar threads
TRENDING THREADS
-
Basic Error: The accelerating Universe conclusion - reason- Started by Gibsense
- Replies: 188
-
-
Definition of Universe requires clarification, to enable discussion
- Started by Catastrophe
- Replies: 38
-
What time is the NASA Parker Solar Probe's closest sun flyby ever on Christmas Eve?- Started by Admin
- Replies: 0
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram