Why Space Exploration is Important

[webtaz99]

Sure, groups of people can share a common goal, that's one thing that makes us different from animals. But termites have cities, too. Please provide an example of a viewpoint that all of "mankind" shares. <br /><br />Survival is the only real measure of success for a species. But that brings up a paradox, because the the most successful species are those which change to adapt to their changing environment. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[j05h]

> Please provide an example of a viewpoint that all of "mankind" shares. <br /><br />No one likes going to bed on an empty stomach. <br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[webtaz99]

Observers of Ramadan (and other fasting) would disagree. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[j05h]

Religious or other fasting has nothing to do with famine and starvation - I'm saying that dying of hunger is something any sane person does not want. <br /><br />j <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[spacester]

"Please provide an example of a viewpoint that all of "mankind" shares. "<br /><br />That's a fair enough request.<br /><br />A desire for a stable, productive and reasonably secure community in which to live.<br /><br />***<br /><br />"But that brings up a paradox, . . ."<br /><br />I don't see the paradox: if the species changes to adapt, for all practical purposes it's still the same species. So I just see a semantic difference but I suspect you are seeing something more.<br /><br />***<br /><br />I'm open to suggestions on an alternate word for 'mankind' . . . <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[webtaz99]

J:<br /><br />"Religious or other fasting has nothing to do with famine and starvation - I'm saying that dying of hunger is something any sane person does not want."<br /><br />j<br /><br />No living thing wants to starve. That is not a viewpoint, it is a survival instinct. I think you will find that all or very nearly all "viewpoints" shared by "all mankind" will also wind up being directly related to survival traits.<br /><br /><br />As far as "a stable, productive and reasonably secure community in which to live", well, you've been watching too much TV, or something. <br /><br />And by the very definition of what is a species, if that species changes, it becomes a new one. If we ignore this seeming paradox, then "men" are microbes. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[arobie]

<font color="yellow">And by the very definition of what is a species, if that species changes, it becomes a new one.</font><br /><br />Ok, then let us come to an understanding that we are talking about our species and our progeny, whatever we happen to evolve into.

 

[spacester]

<font color="yellow">. . . interactive</font><br /><br />oooh, that's a good one . . . . it's not the answer I'm going for, but I like it a lot. I could talk about why I like it so much, but I don't know how to do so and stay 'on track' at the same time.<br /><br />I'm going to ponder it some more, it's too good an answer to let go of easily. I'm guessing we'll work it in later if this dialog continues. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[spacester]

webtaz99, that's a pretty amusing supposition on your part, as I haven't owned a TV in over 15 years. I detest TV, except for a few sports, which oh by the way, that reminds me . . .<br /><br /><font color="orange">OREGON STATE UNIVERSITY</font>IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION OF COLLEGE BASEBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />WOW! What a game, what a series, what a year!<br /><br />Ooops, sorry, I lost control there for a sec . . . <br /><br />So your reply as to the lack of merit in my direct answer to your challenge is sorely lacking in content. IOW what the hell are you talking about? That's your contribution to this dialog? Perhaps if you expanded on the 'or something' part . . . <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[webtaz99]

There are people in the world who would only feel safe and comfortable if everyone in the "western world" was dead, preferrably by violence. There are also great numbers of people who only want everything handed to them and could care less about their "community". <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[spacester]

In the interest of having a healthy dialog, may I ask if your opinion is founded on what you've heard on right-wing talk radio?<br /><br />Seriously, I'm just asking . . . I don't like to assume things about people if I can help it, but sometimes I can't help it. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Because to me it seems self-evident that living among those people you describe, indeed dwarfing the numbers of people with such levels of hate in their hearts, are ordinary Joes / Akmeds who just want to get through their lives with a reasonable level of security.<br /><br />Now it may be that the community they find themselves in allows them to skate through life as parasites on their fellows, and they may be too eager to take advantage of that. But the statement that they pursue security for themselves and their family still holds true. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[quasar2]

great posts here. i personally can`t see much of a future for "us" without Space. people as in many things tend to have short memories. Spinoffs often are overlooked. we wouldn`t be where we are now w/o them. not that where we are is such a great thing, but we still are in a "choice" mode rather than pure survival. <br />& permanent residency of OuterSpace will give us yet another choice. i`m hoping for a day when a backyard inventor can go. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[webtaz99]

I base my opinions on all the information I can gather, not a single source. Haven't you heard of "Islamic extremists"? Haven't you ever met a trust-fund kid? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[spacester]

OK, good for you. The answer to both your questions is yes. Um, was there anything further along this line of discussion? You asked, I answered, your responses since then have been non sequiturs from my point of view. I'm talking about the desire for security on the part of the vast majority of the individuals in a particular community / society / country (in response to your question) and you're talking about the extremists. <br /><br />I answered your question and you seem to be illogically flailing about in a futile attempt to refute me. Perhaps you should broaden your perspective to include new concepts that would prevent you from having such a shock when asking such questions. IOW you expected no answer to your question, and you can't handle the fact that you got one.<br /><br />Have a nice day! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[lampblack]

Space exploration is important for at least three reasons:<br /><br />1. <b>The fundamental human drive to see new places.</b> If human beings are for some reason prevented from looking out beyond the horizon and then <i>going</i> there, we will wither and die on the vine. Although this statement sounds simplistic and many would be inclined to dismiss it, it is nonetheless true.<br /><br />2. <b>Winning the culture war.</b> The situation is analogous to the exploration and subsequent settlement of the North American continent. We who live in the United States speak English (for the most part) and engage in democratic government primarily because of what happened amongst countries that explored and settled North America. If the Brits had not explored (and won a few crucial battles along the way), we in the U.S. would ALL be speaking Spanish or French now. If the U.S. sits on its hands now, the predominant language and government of spacefarerers 100 years from now likely will be Chinese in origin.<br /><br />3. <b>The long-term survival of the species.</b> As long as we are all on one planet, we have all of our eggs in one basket. It is admittedly a big basket, but our survival will not be ensured until and unless we are living and thriving on multiple worlds. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[lampblack]

Of course, there's also a fourth reason why space exploration is important, offered up by those who worship at the altar of free enterprise.<br /><br />Admittedly, this fourth reason likely will have more to do with human movement into space in the long-term than any other single factor.<br /><br />Namely: <b>there's money to be had.</b> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[webtaz99]

I am not flailing, and I am not trying to refute you. I am just logically providing examples that back up my statement that "mankind" is not a collective viewpoint.<br /><br />Of course everyone wants a "secure" and/or "safe" environment. That is a survival trait that we share with all other living things. But the definitions vary from person to person.<br /><br />And I am still waiting to hear the answer to "Does anything have value?" <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[baktothemoon]

I have a question that would be great for a discussion: What is the worst thing in life?

 

[spacester]

Great posts, lampblack. All of those reasons are excellent and valid. But for some reason they haven't yet captured the public's imagination. <br /><br />What I have sought, and believe have found, is a way to 'unify' all the reasons under one theme. The strategy is to present the case to Joe Public starting with that broad theme, allowing space advocates to talk about whichever sub-theme seems best to them. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[spacester]

OK great, we're done trying to refute each other then I hope. I apologize if I failed to respond to your views. I agree that survival traits are paramount in many things.<br /><br />"Mankind" is indeed a slippery term; I am not about to try to argue that everyone in the world shares a collective viewpoint on the word. Fortunately for me, it is a side issue in this presentation - I was just trying to lead folks towards the word I seek. Hopefully once that word is on the table, ‘mankind’ in my usage will become less murky.<br /><br />Does anything have value? Well I say yes, but it would be very easy to define the concept of value such that the answer has to be ‘no’. So it’s a bit of an unanswerable question. (Not that I couldn’t spend a lot of words in discussing it <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> It sounds perhaps like something from the Philosopher George Berkeley and he can be exasperating to respond to.)<br /><br />I think – I know - that there is something more to 'mankind's' existence than mere survival. In support of that view, I offer as evidence Plato, DaVinci and Mozart; The Hagia Sophia, The Golden Gate Bridge and Nuclear Submarines; The Magna Carta, The U.S. Constitution and The Gettysburg Address.<br /><br />What is the thing that first has to exist in order for all those things to exist?<br /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">Great posts, lampblack. All of those reasons are excellent and valid. But for some reason they haven't yet captured the public's imagination. <br /><br />What I have sought, and believe have found, is a way to 'unify' all the reasons under one theme. The strategy is to present the case to Joe Public starting with that broad theme, allowing space advocates to talk about whichever sub-theme seems best to them.</font><br /><br />Then the question you're presenting here isn't really "why space exploration is important."<br /><br />Rather, you seem to be grappling with a marketing question -- the question of how best to sell the public on the importance of space exploration. It's a completely different issue -- albeit, also an important one. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[rfoshaug]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I think – I know - that there is something more to 'mankind's' existence than mere survival. In support of that view, I offer as evidence Plato, DaVinci and Mozart; The Hagia Sophia, The Golden Gate Bridge and Nuclear Submarines; The Magna Carta, The U.S. Constitution and The Gettysburg Address.<br /><br />What is the thing that first has to exist in order for all those things to exist?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Well, first of all <i>creativity</i> has to exist for these things to exist. Second of all, <i>consciousness</i> or <i>awareness</i> is needed to appreciate them. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff9900">----------------------------------</font></p><p><font color="#ff9900">My minds have many opinions</font></p> </div>

 

[webtaz99]

The <b>first</b> thing that must exist is the universe. But I suspect the answer you are looking for is civilization. Some might argue that it is "intelligence", but clearly apes, dolphins, and elephants have intelligence but still lack civilization. <br /><br />Also, don't be disdainful of "mere survival". The only reason we have the things you cite is that we have made survival easy enough to concentrate on other things. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[spacester]

Bingo!<br /><br />Civilization.<br /><br />In My Opinion, mankind measures its worth by the degree to which it is civilized.<br /><br />More later, I gotta get back to work . . . <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[spacester]

<font color="yellow">Then the question you're presenting here isn't really "why space exploration is important." <br /><br />Rather, you seem to be grappling with a marketing question -- the question of how best to sell the public on the importance of space exploration. It's a completely different issue -- albeit, also an important one. </font><br /><br />Hmmmm . . . I don't really see the clear distinction. You're saying that a philosophical / intellectual answer to the title question is necessarily different than a marketing answer?<br /><br />How do I explain this . . . ?<br /><br />In the sense that Marketing is a way to fool and manipulate the public to get them to part with their money for your product or service, then yes there is a difference between a marketing answer and an intellectual answer. The latter cannot be based in trickery and still have intellectual validity.<br /><br />In the sense that Marketing is most effective when the thing you’re selling requires no manipulation of the public because it ‘sells itself’, I see the two answers merging. IOW I seek a unifying intellectual answer and it would be incomplete if it does not contain the marketing answer.<br /><br />So I seek an intellectual answer that is valid on its own terms and for the satisfaction such a mental pursuit brings, and I am assuming that when that is found it will serve nicely as a basis for a marketing strategy.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>