Why "Star Trek: The Next Generation Still Sux"!

[ZenGalacticore]

Re: Star Trek TNG revisited

Sure we touched on it Jim. Remember: dunum dunum dunum dunum --bahm bahm bom bom- bahm bahm bom bom- doodledee doodledoo--------CRASH!

You're the one that said how you were glad to see another conneisseur of 'Star Trek' TOS episodic music!!! You need to start eating your omega 3 fatty acids there Uncle Fester, for memory! :lol:

Gary 7- "Why that's the same sort of non-sense that destroyed Omachron III!"

What's funny about that line? Well, that there are two other planets named "Omachron".

 

[MeteorWayne]

Re: Star Trek TNG revisited

It was probably Omicron, which is a greek letter (15th of 16) often used in the identification of astronomical objects. It comes between xi and pi. So it's usage is quite common in the astronomical universe.

 

[crazyeddie]

Re: Star Trek TNG revisited

It was probably Omicron, which is a greek letter (15th of 16) often used in the identification of astronomical objects. It comes between xi and pi. So it's usage is quite common in the astronomical universe.

Many planets in the world of Star Trek are identified by the scientific name of the star the planet orbits. Informally, "Rigel-IV" would be used to identify the fourth planet of the star Rigel, but astronomically, the proper title would be "Beta Orionis-IV". "Omicron" is a cool-sounding greek letter, and rolls off the tongue better than some others, so the Star Trek script writers seemed to use it a lot. But to finish the thought, what's also missing from "the line" the Zen used is the genitive latin name for the constellation as seen from Earth. "Omicron III" alone tells you nothing about what actual star is being discussed; "Omicron Eridani III" or "Omicron Pavonis III" would make sense.

 

[ZenGalacticore]

Re: Star Trek TNG revisited

It was probably Omicron, which is a greek letter (15th of 16) often used in the identification of astronomical objects. It comes between xi and pi. So it's usage is quite common in the astronomical universe.

Ummm, yeahhhhh. I'm familiar with the Greek alphabet and that we designate stars often with Greek letters, Epsilon Eridani, e.g.

It was just funny the way the actor said it. Look out for the 'Oh-ma-chronians', they have three planets!

 

[StarRider1701]

Re: Star Trek TNG revisited

I must say that I liked all the Star Trek shows and even most of the movies, except the first one. Since a few folks have mentioned the new ST movie, I will say that I very much enjoyed it. Good Science Fiction and good Trek.

When it first came out, I refused to watch TNG - I just 'knew' it couldn't be as good as the Original. But my friends all said it was good so I started watching in the third season and fell in love quite quickly. The cast had jelled and were working well together and I thought the stories were mostly good. I have to agree with Zen and a few others on one point, sometimes they talked too much. There were times when I literally yelled at Picard, "Shut the he** up you moron and fire the blasted phasers!" Of course he didn't. It pissed me off that even when fighting a known enemy, the Enterprise D NEVER fired first. EVER! There are times when the smartest thing to do is shoot first and ask questions later. Oops, that may not be politically correct!

My next favorite was a love/hate relationship with Enterprise. I loved the opening song, I thought it quite inspiring and I also liked the pictures that went with it. I thought they did a good job of blending the older, real NASA photos with the depictions of things in their past but our future. Doing a prequel is very difficult, hard to do right, especially with Star Trek. Even before the first episode aired, I 'knew' they would do some things wrong, have some stuff that was too futuristic. But they really did ty to get it right, which is why I kept watching. They also didn't rehash old eps from TOS or TNG.

I really enjoyed Voyager. The concept was a good one and the acting was also good. Yes, Janeway was a lot like Kirk as a Captain. She didn't take no stuff from anyone and she found a way to kick butt even when she was out gunned! I agree, they did overdo the Borg a bit, to the point that they almost seemed not the dire threat that the Borg started out to be.

To me, the least Trek-like show was Deep Space Nine. There was very little Federation about it except the people. It was a Kardassian station orbiting a greasy little he** hole in some third rate segment of the Galaxy! It had stuff no other Star Trek show had, like money and a casino and Dabo Girls, very scantily clad just for you, Zen. Yet it was Trek. I especially loved the Defiant, a pure warship. I remember the warning that the ships weapons and engines were both a little overpowered. It couldnt execute full power, extreme manuvers and fire all forward weapons at the same time or it could tear itself apart! I liked the characters until Jedzia Dax left, I hated the whiney little peice of fluff they replaced her with.

All in all, I've enjoyed the entire Star Trek genre, wouldn't have missed it for anything even though I do understand a litle bit about where Zen and CrazyEddie and you others are coming from. The shows were not perfect, not even the Original Star Trek. Maybe if you stop expecting the other Trek shows to be exactly like the Original, you might start to like them a little more.

 

[ZenGalacticore]

It sux because there's no dramatic music soundtrack to speak of; it sux because most of the characters have no LIFE in them! It sux because the stories drag on until they hit a cul-de-sac and can't turn around!!!

It sux because the writers, directors, and all round creative artists involved with the series were constrained by the idiotic and asinine concepts of "Political Correctness", as seen by producers and studio execs at Paramount that was prevalent at the time of production!

The show sux because just when it started to get good, they (the studio and producers) would water any evolving and emerging intensity down!

I don't necessarily blame the writers. And I certainly don't blame the gosh dang actors! But I do blame the pencil pushing studio execs and producers who are so arrogant to think that they know what makes good science fiction!!

But the writers certainly hold some responsibility. A bunch of intelligent sounding "techno-babble", a dictionary of technical terms describing a non-existent, future technology does not a good science-fiction teleplay-story make!!!

Forget the "technobabble". One needs a GOOD STORY first and foremost. Followed by believable and loveable/hateable characters with genuine character interaction!!! (Just for starters!)

Your thoughts...

 

[andrew_t1000]

I just love it when sad little geeks dis Star Trek TNG! The worship of long gone teenage fantasy is just sooo sad!
I can not stand Shatner or James T Kirk!
John Luke Picard, Benjamin Cisco, Catherin Jayneway and Johnathan Archer are way more credible officers than friggen Kirk ever was.
The whole "morality play" of the origional series makes me wanna puke!
Ok, the 2nd season of TNG is not the best, but in a time when there was NOTHING in the way of science fiction on TV it was an oasis to a dying science fiction fan!
Face facts, Patrick Stewart is way and beyond a better actor than Shatner ever could, will or ever be.

If TNG was so bad how come it lasted way longer than the 3 seasons of the original?
The same sad, small minded people who are so damn one eyed about the original Trek are usually are fans of the same lame TV shows like (and I shudder here)

The Six Million Dollar Man
The Bionic Woman
Wonder Woman (Ok, she had a 'bod to die for, and those boobs!)
Buck Rodgers (again, Wilma Dearing! Damn! What a woman!)

The mid 60's to mid 80's were terrible time as far as TV science fiction, fashion, music and world events go.
The only, repeat, only highlights were
Apollo
Voyager
Viking
The first shuttle launches
Things went steadily downhill from there.
Let's just all move on!

PS
I am expecting to get flamed and a lot of hate mail!
I'm 46, so I grew up in this time, I remember it with great revulsion!

 

[a_lost_packet_]

I just love it when sad little geeks dis Star Trek TNG! The worship of long gone teenage fantasy is just sooo sad!
I can not stand Shatner or James T Kirk!
John Luke Picard, Benjamin Cisco, Catherin Jayneway and Johnathan Archer are way more credible officers than friggen Kirk ever was.
The whole "morality play" of the origional series makes me wanna puke!

Everything I learned about life, I learned from Star Trek! Actually, the "morality play" is a time honored tradition in many stories. It brings the story a personal element - Everyone can identify with it. There are plenty of morality-play episodes of TNG as well. They were just a bit flashier.

Ok, the 2nd season of TNG is not the best, but in a time when there was NOTHING in the way of science fiction on TV it was an oasis to a dying science fiction fan!

/agree

Face facts, Patrick Stewart is way and beyond a better actor than Shatner ever could, will or ever be.

NEVAR! How.. <dramatic pause>... How could... <dramatic pause> .. YOU <dramatic pause, turn towards the camera> say such a... <soul searching look> fiendish .. <spin towards character> THING!

If TNG was so bad how come it lasted way longer than the 3 seasons of the original?

Because, as you said, it was a sci-fi desert and TNG was an oasis that became a hit.

The same sad, small minded people who are so damn one eyed about the original Trek are usually are fans of the same lame TV shows like (and I shudder here)

The Six Million Dollar Man
The Bionic Woman
Wonder Woman (Ok, she had a 'bod to die for, and those boobs!)
Buck Rodgers (again, Wilma Dearing! Damn! What a woman!)

Wonder Woman and Buck Rodgers were awesome shows for a young boy to watch... I loved 'em. I think they had storylines too but, I don't remember....

The mid 60's to mid 80's were terrible time as far as TV science fiction, fashion, music and world events go.
The only, repeat, only highlights were
Apollo
Voyager
Viking
The first shuttle launches
Things went steadily downhill from there.
Let's just all move on!

BAH! You forget Irwin Allen!!!

Lost in Space, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, The Time Tunnel, Land of the Giants, etc...

These were pretty awesome shows for young audiences and many people got their first taste of sci-fi stories from them. Yeah, they were hokey but... still, a great ride while they lasted. (Other shows like UFO in the UK were similar and served the same purpose - Get people in the Sci-Fi conventions!!! )

PS - I am expecting to get flamed and a lot of hate mail! I'm 46, so I grew up in this time, I remember it with great revulsion!

I grew up then as well and remember a lot of it fondly. Especially... Erin Gray...

PS - Capt. Kirk would kick Buck's lily white butt for a shot at Wilma...

 

[ZenGalacticore]

Hey Andrew- I'm not a little sad geek. I'm 6' 2" and I weigh 215 pounds and I run or hike 15 or more miles a week. So there!! :lol:

I'm 46 too, and grew up with the same stuff as many here did also. And I agree with you on one thing, Wilma was hot!

As far as the acting qualities of Shatner vis a vis Stewart, well, they are just different styles. As far as playing a captain of a starship in the 23rd century goes, I think Shatner did a great job! It's not that Stewart didn't- he's an accomplished Shakespearean actor- it's just that any actor, no matter how talented, can only do so much with a bad script, bad continuity, and even worse direction.

If anything ever happens in a TNG episode, it takes the first 30 minutes to happen. In Star Trek, sh-- went down in the first 30 seconds!!

At any rate, I got a good laugh out of your opinionated rant. Did you read the OP on page one? That was my opinionated rant. Perhaps you'll get a kick out of it too. :lol:

 

[ZenGalacticore]

Btw, yeah, I agree that 'Bionic Woman' and 'Wonderwoman' were pretty bad. Lindsay Wagoner and Linda Carter were great eye candy, though. Linda was a classic brunette beauty. And my ex-gf looks like Lindsey, and she's always talking about sleep!

 

[drwayne]

Hey, my favorite night of TV as a teen was the one year where, on Friday night, the follwoing were on:

Kung Fu
The Six Million Dollar Man
Kolchak, The Night Stalker

I actually like both Pickard and Kirk, because I look at them sperately, performing nominally the same
job (Captain of the Enterprise), in markedly different circumstances.

I also love to read novels that feature them interacting in one form or way or the other. One
of my favorites, as I have mumbled in this forum before, is "Ship of the Line", in which Picard
deals with his thoughts about being a captain (during the phase between Enterprise D's
destruction and taking command of E) by interacting with a holographic training program
that was made with the cooperation of Admiral Kirk.

 

[crazyeddie]

I grew up then as well and remember a lot of it fondly. Especially... Erin Gray...

And I, as a little soon-to-be-gay boy, found Gil Girard to be pretty hot, too.....

I liked Buck Rogers in the 25th Century, in spite of the goofy helmets and the daffy little robot with Mel Blanc's voice:

 

[StarRider1701]

Lost in Space, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, The Time Tunnel, Land of the Giants, etc...

These were pretty awesome shows for young audiences and many people got their first taste of sci-fi stories from them. Yeah, they were hokey but... still, a great ride while they lasted. (Other shows like UFO in the UK were similar and served the same purpose - Get people in the Sci-Fi conventions!!! )

Lets not forget the Original Battlestar Galactica! Starbuck dating Apollo's sister Athena and the professional Courtisan... darn, cant remember her name. But what a babe.
Actually I used to think of the possibility of Galactica meeting up with the Earth of Buck Rogers. I figured they could kick the Cylon's butts together. Then they did Galactica 1980 - what a downer.

So you didn't like The Next Generation - get over it! A lot of us did like it.

 

[drwayne]

When one begins to age, you stop apologizing for what you like. I have on my iPhone at the moment,
both parts of the two part Lost in Space episode titled "The Keeper"

And Eddie, I, as a straight guy, readily admit that I find Michael Renie incredibly attractive, he has
that look and that voice. Too bad he's been dead for pushing 40 years now...

I also like certain Hanna Barbera action cartoons for the .... music! I have an episode of Space Ghost
on my phone right now mainly because it has a relatively long verson of one my favorite cartoon tunes.

Wayne

 

[drwayne]

By the way, there are some of my favorite music in the LIS episodes that I have on my phone.
From the action piece that shows up a number of times in part II, (eg when Don and John are
pursued by the giant Iguana) to the majestic piece that plays when the keeper first appears,
and when he departs ...

I also have the remastered TOS episode "The Doomsday Machine" - the upgraded special effects
are very cool. Special effects are one area where TNG, to me any way, suffered....

 

[crazyeddie]

I also like certain Hanna Barbera action cartoons for the .... music! I have an episode of Space Ghost
on my phone right now mainly because it has a relatively long verson of one my favorite cartoon tunes.

Wayne

I loved Space Ghost! And did you like the theme music to the Johnny Quest show? I thought it was great!

 

[drwayne]

There is some cross-over from the Space Ghost/Herculoids/Birdman etc. toons and JQ.
Good action adventure stuff to be sure...

Wayne

 

[a_lost_packet_]

There is some cross-over from the Space Ghost/Herculoids/Birdman etc. toons and JQ.
Good action adventure stuff to be sure...

Wayne

ALL of those HB cartoons had great music and, IMO, all were a heck of a lot of fun to watch! I was a big Johnny Quest fan!

AWESOME music!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fYTA7bxqP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbhh2Zb-B0

<edit>

Oh, and to stay on topic, TNG sucked because... IT DIDN'T RATE A SPIN-OFF CARTOON SHOW!!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y22T4ZrJzY[/youtube]

 

[drwayne]

There is some cross-over from the Space Ghost/Herculoids/Birdman etc. toons and JQ.
Good action adventure stuff to be sure...

Wayne

ALL of those HB cartoons had great music and, IMO, all were a heck of a lot of fun to watch! I was a big Johnny Quest fan!

AWESOME music!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fYTA7bxqP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbhh2Zb-B0

<edit>

Oh, and to stay on topic, TNG sucked because... IT DIDN'T RATE A SPIN-OFF CARTOON SHOW!!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y22T4ZrJzY[/youtube]

With good music.

 

[ZenGalacticore]

You know, the really sad thing about the cancellation of 'Star Trek: The Animated Series' after just one season was that the network classified it as a 'kids show' or 'children's programming' and therefore aired it at 11:00 am Saturday mornings.

The stories were just as good as the regular TOS, and with the animation medium, well geez, they could've gone anywhere. It's too bad the general adult public wasn't much interested in animated programs at that time. The show should've been on primetime like the 'Simpsons'.

Imagine what they could've done, and, all the original actors would have had steady work. Furthermore, the sustained interest could have led, by '75, a new regular show with the original cast, instead of waiting for the mostly disappointing movies of the 1980s, when the actors were beginning to show their age.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the original "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", although it was a bit strained and they certainly could have written a better story. And 'The Wrath of Khan' was pretty good.

I also hated how they had turned Dr. McKoy into a 'constantly angry, grouchy pain' all the time. Originally, he could be cantankerous and everything, but not all the freakin' time. Maybe it was in part due to Kelley not being able to get back into character, I don't know.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

You know, the really sad thing about the cancellation of 'Star Trek: The Animated Series' after just one season was that the network classified it as a 'kids show' or 'children's programming' and therefore aired it at 11:00 am Saturday mornings.

The stories were just as good as the regular TOS, and with the animation medium, well geez, they could've gone anywhere. It's too bad the general adult public wasn't much interested in animated programs at that time. The show should've been on primetime like the 'Simpsons'.

Imagine what they could've done, and, all the original actors would have had steady work. Furthermore, the sustained interest could have led, by '75, a new regular show with the original cast, instead of waiting for the mostly disappointing movies of the 1980s, when the actors were beginning to show their age.

You know, a revival of Star Trek TOS - The animated Series would be AWESOME! Heck, if Lucas can peddle Star Wars action figures with his 3D animated series, why not let some real stories into the mix with a brand new Star Trek TOS animated series! That would be awesome!

(I read the Star Trek Logs 1-whatever when I was a kid, novelized by Alan Dean Foster, IIRC. They are great stories!)

...I also hated how they had turned Dr. McKoy into a 'constantly angry, grouchy pain' all the time. Originally, he could be cantankerous and everything, but not all the freakin' time. Maybe it was in part due to Kelley not being able to get back into character, I don't know.

Kelly was a well accomplished actor before any of them. I seriously doubt it was any of his shortcomings in that area. To be honest, McKoy was always the more down to earth, practical and more stubborn-headed of the group. I guess they just emphasized those qualities because they wanted a more archetypical "country doctor" type for the Captain to bounce his personal dilemmas off of. McKoy was Kirk's friend and personal therapist.

 

[drwayne]

Why am I reminded of that line from another doctor in the pilot

"A man will tell his bartender things he would never tell his doctor"

Wayne

 

[ZenGalacticore]

Wayne- Yeah, in the original pilot, IIRC, the guy who played Mica on the Rifleman was the original Doctor. Thank God they replaced him with Kelley. I think the old fella may have even kicked the bucket. :|

Alp, and everyone concerned- Yeah, McKoy was levelheaded and down to Earth, as much as Spock was 'down to Vulcan'.

In TOS, sometimes he would get really irate, usually about too much technology interaction and the human inclination to always resort to aggression and war. (Kind of makes him timeless and relevant to these fast changing, dangerous times, doesn't it?!)

But in TOS he was often the calm and able Doctor, and played it so well. Like when he ran his cell phone sized medscanner up and down real quick on Kirk, doesn't look at any readout but relies on the medscanner's change in pitch, and says:

'Jim I need to run a complete physical on you'. (The Deadly Years) :lol:

Or when he once said, in reference to 23rd century medical knowledge, again addressing Kirk:

'I can do more for you if you just eat right and exercise regularly.'

Dang I loved his character, as I loved all of them. They just don't have characters that loveable and engaging on TNG.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

....Dang I loved his character, as I loved all of them. They just don't have characters that loveable and engaging on TNG.

Agree. TNG characters seem.. well, sort of "plastic" if you get my meaning. I mean, "Make it so." ... what kind of crap order is that? <whiney voice> "Make it so..."

/slap

Whiney little stoopid "Make it so." AND, wtf is with "Engage." Who the heck say's "Engage?" Kirk would say "Go that away, real quick!" and Sulu or Chekov didn't have to be told twice or given some stupid idea like "It'd probably be a good idea for you to hit the "GO" button so.... ENGAGE!"

/slap

I feel... the rant coming on..

WHO THE HECK PROMOTED RIKER?

What idiot decided that an oversexed, ego driven, rampantly uncharasmatic high-school wannabe dropout character would be an ideal First Officer? The guy couldn't even get a darn uniform that seemed to fit. He GRADUATED Star Fleet? How? Did he hump the leg of the Dean or what? Riker was so obsessed with Picard that it makes me wonder just who's leading who in the Captain's Cabin. Riker was supposed to be an officer fit for command yet passed up everything to live in the skinny little shadow of Picard just so he could, maybe, kinda sorta might, get a shot at the Enterprise. WHO THE HECK is going to give the Captain's Seat of the Flagship of the Fleet to an officer that has never had a command before? Who decided that Riker had to be at Picard's right hand in every single scene? What contrived, blatant symbolism! Are we supposed to be impressed? Heck no! Spock occasionally was at Kirk's right hand but, the rest of the time he was busy being a RESPONSIBLE First Officer and actually DOING something. How often did Riker get off his butt and actually go do something that didn't include running around in the holodeck like an idiot?

AND WHAT THE HECK IS IT WITH "Number One?" Look, in the pilot, Number One was workable. In fact, I liked it. But, there is only ONE number One in my book and Majel Barrett is her name! Did you hear Kirk say "Number One to anybody? Heck no! That's because Kirk KNEW there was only one Number One and he'd be damned if he was going to call anyone but himself and Majel "Number One." They should have kept her character for TOS! But, I guess they could only fit so many characters in the script and they wanted to stay away from heavy female leads. /sigh

What the heck is with Data? OK, look... I can understand some shallow dimwit thinking they have to replicate the archetypes they had in the original series. BUT, that thought is where it ends! Data wasn't like Spock. Spock would have slapped Data the first time he said "But, I wanna be humanz.. Ppppleeeeaaazzzzz!" Spock didn't have an identity crisis with his human half! He had temporary vacations from being Vulcan!

Oh well, rant temporarily off until I can gather some info and try to create something humorous about TNG.

 

[drwayne]

Non-Canonical Warning:

It was interesting that in the novel "Ship of the Line", when command was not being given to Picard
for the shake-down cruiise, the also didn't give it to Riker, they gave it to Morgan Bateson, the captain
that came forward through time in the Bozeman.