A CIVILIZATION on MARS? 1B/200M Years Ago? (Pt. 4)

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">Why no longer valid? Did the lines disappear?</font><br /><br />I tried to use a little bit of humor, but....<br /><br />Let's not go there again. <br /><br />I'll just cut and paste my old posts about intellectual dishonesty and ethics. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">Hmmmm maybe there is something to all of this.... </font><br /><br />Like what? That Mother Nature is a Freemason? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">I tried to use a little bit of humor, but.... Let's not go there again. I'll just cut and paste my old posts about intellectual dishonesty and ethics. </font><br /><br />However....if, by some chance, I find out you've posted that drawing elsewhere (i.e., TEM's "pay to post" board) to support/defend your position <i>without</i> the proviso, then we <i>will</i> revist the issue, I promise. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

I think the dog, or dawg, is just right. Very adaptable. Just look at telfrow's friendly, eager group of Data Dawgs. But cross them with data-ignoring or mutilating peudoscience and they turn into the ferocious bull dog pictured ripping its way out of Mars. Then there's the mild mannered, nerdy Data Dog that is embodied in a_lost_packet's dogbert logo. (Possible copyright problems there.)<br /><br />So the data dog (or dawg) theme allows all the facets of this facinating member of society to be captured: Friendly, selfless helper, ferocious finder of truth, destroyer of lies. A nerdy brainiac who is never-the-less hip and 'down with it'! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">edit: let's not forget too,,, Cairo means Mars.</font><br /><br />Actually, in Arabic, Cairo is <i>Al Qâhirah</i>, which means the “victorious one,” and epithet of the planet Mars, which was in the ascendant when construction of the city began in 969 CE. <br /><br />969 CE…a bit late to fit the theory, isn’t it?<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[yevaud]

And next, we'll probably hear the song, "who let the dog's out?!"<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Colin: <font color="yellow">"IT'S ALIVE, IT'S ALLIIVE, I TELL YOU, IT'S AAALLIIVE..........." </font><br /><br />A line that was delivered, I believe, by Colin Clive in the original Frankenstein (1931)…Colin98…Colin Clive. <br /><br />Coincidence? I don’t think so. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Was bored.... By all means, zoom in and compare the original to what I traced.... http://www.keithlaney.com/V02834004-V01024003CydoniaMapsmall.jpg <br /><br />This is an example of what I mean by relvant geometry hunting..... Looks organized to me.<br /><br />Check out the three squared structures in lower right corner.... Neat, eh?

 

[maxtheknife]

More tracing....<br /><br />Jon, what's up w/ these sort of 'cylindrical' grooves in the sides of these 'mesas? They're all over the place....

 

[maxtheknife]

City trace....

 

[bobw]

Max, from your post of the attributed material:<br /><br /><font color="yellow">An analysis of other landforms in this area supports the above con­clusions, but could the morphology of the Face be the result of a random series of geologic events? Undoubtedly that is a possibility, but the land­form's obvious human-like characteristics and societal implications, in combination with other enigmatic landforms at Cydonia, requires that a more thorough geologic evaluation of Cydonia be pursued to acquire a resolution to this problem.</font><br /><br />Is that the same James L. Erjavec who runs this website?<br /><br />http://hometown.aol.com/erjavecj/cydonia/cyd_h2o1.htm#top%20of%20water%20article<br /><br />Here's what he says over there (among other things)<br /><br /><font color="yellow"><br />Other Significant Features of "The Face"<br /><br />The central portion of the landform is defined by at least four east-west trending ridges or outcrops which appear to be more resistant to erosion than the sediments underlying them. Because of the angular erosional form of this part of the landform, it seems likely that it is composed of a rock type that is different than that of the underlying terraces. The rock supporting and surrounding the ridges appears more massive in form than the terraces below it and except for possible correlations between the ridge sections themselves, bedding features are obscure or nonexistent.<br /><br />Three distinct "channels" are present on the north end of the landform in the shape of a bisected V. They begin at the level of Terrace #4 and extend to the top of Terrace #2. It is not clear if they are drainage features or if they are structurally controlled. A north-south trending lineation seems to be present in the center of the landform. It lies between the east-west trending ridges, some of which appear to be offset. This lineatio</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

You didin't really take in everything that was written, did you? The man was quite objective if you ask me.....<br /><br /><font color="yellow">It is not clear if they are drainage features or if they are structurally controlled.</font><br /><br /><font color="yellow">Other explanations are possible. </font><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /><br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[telfrow]

Post deleted by telfrow<br /><br />See the post at the top of page 33...it should be the first in the sequence...I had to delete this post because I forgot to format to 640 or less. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Here's a crop of the feature in the lower right corner.. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

And here the other feature, just to the left and slightly below the "D &M"... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Let's try that again...I just noticed the photo was way too large for the width of the screen...<br /><br /><font color="yellow">This is an example of what I mean by relvant geometry hunting..... Looks organized to me. </font><br /><br />It doesn’t look anymore “relevant” to me than any of the other examples I posted. Again, given enough features and enough space…. <br /><br />But I am glad you brought that area up. I’ve been looking at it. <br /><br />Tracings aside, I’d like Jon’s take on what we’re seeing here. <br /><br />Here’s a crop of the area: <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

And here's the "D &M"... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

So Jon, here's my question:<br /><br />The weathering/erosion patterns on these three objects seems to be remarkably similar...down to the curving "arms" and butressing. <br /><br />Does that provide any clue as to what the weathering and erosion that took place here...or the composition of these features?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Wait...I'll save you the trouble of a post Max: of course, it <i>could</i> mean they're all artificial. <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

My understanding is that the primary Arabic name for Mars is Ma'adim.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">Check out the three squared structures in lower right corner.... Neat, eh? </font><br /><br />What you outlined on the left...what's there on the right.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

That's a very interesting question Telfrow, and I have been thinking about for a week or so. <br /><br />Looking at the higher resolution images, and it becomes more evident the higher the resolution (i.e. MOC) that the "pyramid" and the X-shaped hill to south west are basically formed by ridges of resistant material from which the more erodable surrounding rock is being stripped away. The ridges also seem brighter than the surround material, suggesting a compositional difference.<br /><br />Mineralised fracture systems are a possibility, intersection of several of these produces 4 and 5 armed shapes. We see similar resistant polygonal fracture systems ehsewhere on Mars.<br /><br />What I find interesting is that the underlying plains have a well developed polygonal fracture system. If as seems likely to me, and suggested by Guest and others back in 1977, the hills are remnants of overlying material that is being stripped away, it is possible that the fractures in the overlying units were imposed by differential movement in the underlying unit. Such sequential inheritance is not uncommon on earth. <br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Interesting Jon. I'll do some "googling" tonight. Today, it's back to the grind...training classes all day.<br /><br />As always, thanks for the information. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Max:<br /><br />re: "relevancy"<br /><br />Our old friend, the starfish, with a few "relevant" lines added...<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[sinova]

It's getting a little frustrating at this end. Some of the pictures posted in this thread are obviously garbled.<br /><br />I have cleaned this one up so you can now discern the true landscape.