Colonization of Europa

[hayhay]

If Europa was proven to be completely capable of colonization, how could this be achieved? What type of equiptment would be needed for humans to be able to survive, and breathe? How would they get food?

 

[rogers_buck]

You would have 30 seconds to punch a hole in the ice and dive deep. Any longer than that and the radiation would fry you.

 

[toymaker]

There was an article on space.com about it :<br /><br />"Humans on Europa: A Plan for Colonies on the Icy Moon"<br />http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missions/europa_colonies_010606-1.html<br /><br />

 

[hayhay]

Thanks for your replies. Do you think it would be easier to colonize Mars instead? And if so, how could this be acheived?

 

[peacekeeper]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Overall, a habitat in orbit around a major moon, such as Titan, might be a more realistic means for colonization than the frozen, icy unstable surface of a Jovian moon.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Why not both? I see a future with a number of smaller cities and habitats built in air pockets around the ice of Europa. However, most cargo ships probably wont be able to actually land on the moon, and therefore an orbital space city would also be needed. The cargo ships would dock with this port city, and their cargo would then be taken to the surface cities by smaller ships custom made for this purpose. These "dropships" would of course also take cargo in the other direction, cargo that is then loaded onto the real cargo ships and freighted to similair orbital cities around Earth, Mars, etc.

 

[dannydare]

It might be easiest to fling the drop ships with cargo back into orbit with an electrically powered rail gun. Avoids the need for explosive volatile fuels.

 

[alokmohan]

Terraforing is difficult and so far only a theorical thought.There is enough discussion on mars terraforming and going on .Europa is too far fetched now.Try mars and it may be possible in this century.

 

[heyo]

Does landing on the side of Europa that is opposite Jupiter at the time offer sheilding from the radiation? Or is it just that there is a swarm of radiation in Jupiters magnetic field and if you're in it you're in it?<br /><br />Heyo

 

[peacekeeper]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Terraforing is difficult and so far only a theorical thought.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Noone was talking about terraforming Europa. That would be impossible. I was just saying making habitats deep within the ice shouldn't be too hard. Sure, it won't happen in this century, but we must have something to do <i>after</i> we have turned Mars into a lush green world as well, don't you think? So to start thinking about it now doesn't make it too far fetched - it only makes for a very interesting conversation.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Or is it just that there is a swarm of radiation in Jupiters magnetic field and if you're in it you're in it?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Yup. As you so nicely put it, "if you're in it you're in it". <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[thalion]

<<Does landing on the side of Europa that is opposite Jupiter at the time offer sheilding from the radiation? Or is it just that there is a swarm of radiation in Jupiters magnetic field and if you're in it you're in it?>> <br /><br />Actually, there may be some truth to this. IIRC, Jupiter's magnetic field--and hence, many of the charged particles in its field--rotates every ~10 hours, roughly the same as the rotation period of Jupiter. However, Europa still takes a couple of days to orbit, which means that the field is constantly "outrunning" the moon and impinging strongest on its following hemisphere. Hence, the leading hemisphere of Europa should provide some protection from the worst of the radiation--but not enough of course, to totally negate the necessity of heavy radiation shielding.<br /><br />Until we can find some method of lightweight, highly-effective radiation shielding, visiting any of the moons inside the orbit of Callisto is almost moot, sorry to say.<br />

 

[peacekeeper]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Until we can find some method of lightweight, highly-effective radiation shielding, visiting any of the moons inside the orbit of Callisto is almost moot, sorry to say.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Of course, such shielding may very well ve available to us within a century from now. I have no doubt that the first real human settlements outside of Earth will be located on either Mars or the moon, but eventially we will feel the need to expand even further. And when that time comes, I see Europa as an excelent option!

 

[heyo]

<i>"Of course, such shielding may very well ve available to us within a century from now. "</i><br /><br />It's tin foil! I have been wearing it on my head recently to keep the satellites from reading my thoughts.<br /><br />... you mean you HAVEN'T?<br /><br /><br /><br />BTW: Not to sound like a complete tool, but what does 'IIRC' mean?<br /><br />Heyo

 

[najab]

IIRC = "If I recall correctly"

 

[vogon13]

Darn, that's handy, I've been spelling it out all the time...<br /><br /><br />Anyway, back to Europa, Gravity will never be right, always too cold, radiation protection impossible now and if ever possible probably to expensive for an object as big as Europa. Unless you're prepared to dive real deep Europa always going to be short of useful heavy elements lik iron, titanium, copper, etc.. Soft landing on Europa also takes great deal of fuel. Round trip even more so. Don't get me wrong, would love to have inhabited world with view of Jupiter, but , boy oh boy, lotta' work to make Europa the one. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[yurkin]

It we seem we are talking about two different things here.<br /><br />Can we terraform Europa?<br /><br />Can we colonize Europa?<br /><br /><br />Can we terraform Europa? <br />No<br />At a survivable temperature Europa would be nothing more then a very deep global ocean. The solid mass at that temperature would probably be no more then a large asteroid. This is all assuming we can get it up to that temperature somehow. There are other reasons too.<br /><br />Can we colonize Europa<br />Certainly<br />But Callisto, Iapetus or any moon with less instantly lethal radiation levels would probably make things a little easier. <br />

 

[najab]

><i>Can we colonize Europa?</i><p>No, because any ship/probe that goes close to it will be destroyed. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <p><i>"All these worlds are yours, except Europa. Attempt no landings there."</i></p></p>

 

[peacekeeper]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Callisto, Iapetus or any moon with less instantly lethal radiation levels would probably make things a little easier.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />True. But habitats built in air pockets deep within Europa's ice, perhaps even with direct access to the ocean beneath, would just be so much cooler <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><i>"All these worlds are yours, except Europa. Attempt no landings there."</i><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />You care to explain that? I havn't seen the movie... What's so dangerous about Europa?

 

[najab]

><i>You care to explain that? I havn't seen the movie... What's so dangerous about Europa?</i><p>It's from Arthur C. Clarke's <i>2010</i> (or <i>2061</i>, I forget which). The plot line is that the Monolith turns Jupiter into a sun. This makes all the Jovian moons more habitable. Mankind is told "All these worlds are yours except Europa." since the purpose of the stellar conversion is to give the life on Europa an chance to evolve. (The theory being you can't evolve past the neolithic stage if you can't make fire.)<p>We were banned from landing on Europa, every probe that approached would either malfunction or explode.</p></p>

 

[alokmohan]

Frankly I dont get what you mean by colonisation.

 

[peacekeeper]

You don't know the word colonization?

 

[nexium]

Hi peacekeeper: We may never have a REAL human settlement off Earth, depending on the definition. I look for a tiny colony at the mass center of an asteroid first, but it will likely be almost as dependent on Earth for supplies as the ISS = international space station. Up to 100 meters of asteroid material, likely means less average radiation exposure than Earth at the sealevel near the Equator. Neil

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"You don't know the word colonization?"</font><br /><br />To some around the world, "colonization" may be a touchy term. But I don't think we have to worry about any native populations being oppressed by the colonization of other bodies in the solar system besides Earth. And I think it will be a long time before any off-Earth colony rebels against its Earth-bound rulers. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[meteo]

Well you'd have a little longer than that. Not that it ends up mattering. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />540 rem/day on Europa.<br /><br />Assuming your space ship had no radiation sheilding. These calculations assume instantaneous exposures the time for the various effects to set in would actually be longer (how much longer I don't know).<br /><br />http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~rer/rerhtml/rer_24.html<br /><br />1 hour. Blood changes<br />2 hour. Temporary sterility males<br />5-9 hour Vomiting, diarrhea<br />9-13 hour Serious radiation sickness, nausea<br />13-18 hour Intestine and bone marrow desturction, females permanatly sterile.<br />4 days All crew members dead, again this assumes an instant dose ( />2000rem). How long would they acually last? A week, two weeks; I'll try and update this when I can find some longer exposure time effects.<br /><br />With moderate sheliding, treatment, and protecting some part of your body (reduces effects) you might last (a pulse) a month. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[mcbethcg]

I think the answer would be to take an extremely long view and move it to a better location, using a method similar to one proposed for moving the Earth.<br /><br />The method requires very little energy expenditure, but would take many generations. I think it can be done much quicker than the Earth moving idea- the Earth moving idea is intentionally slow to keep the earth in the habitable zone as the sun slowly increases in size.<br /><br />http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1154784.stm<br /><br />Instead of having the asteroid fly by every 6000 years, have one (of several) come by several times a year, slowly boosting Europa to an orbit closer to the sun. Use other moons to redirect the asteroids back, to increase the frequency of the flyby maneuver.

 

[meteo]

Well you still have to land on Europa bury yourself beneath the ice.<br /><br />How long are you inside the orbit of Ganymede and how long is is going to take to bury yourself beneath the ice? We wouldn't be able to fly to Europa with 1 meter of ice on the ship, practicly that is.<br /><br />Callisto is a much more attractive place to colonize, with 0.01 rem/day. You'd be recieving much less (3.65 rem/year with no sheilding) than the 5 rem/year maximum that Nuclear Power Plant workers are allowed. The surface is the same dirty ice compositon. The salty oceans on Callisto, if they exist, are much farther down but how many miles down are Europa's probable oceans? They wouldn't be very practicle for growing anything, "maybe" could be used as an aquifer. Just like Europa anyone on Callisto will find themselves growing with artificial light. Europa may have a better chance of life but I think Callisto is a much better place to colonize.