Deep Impact Foul Play

[maxtheknife]

See what happens when one misleads people? <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

 

[a_lost_packet_]

I wouldn't put it past him. However, people like Hoagland, in my opinion, generally feel more powerful when they can direct others to do their bidding. Hoagland seems fairly paranoid to me. He constantly rants against anyone who doesn't agree with him. His favorite target is Phil Plait over at www.badastronomy.com because, I suppose, he feels threatened by Phil's debunking of him.<br /><br />I think RCH wants and needs the power he feels when he directs his minions. In my opinion that is.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[yevaud]

Just one moment:<br /><br />There have been numerous threads, in which some sinister and dire conclusion is reached, for example, because NASA hasn't released images from Tempel1.<br /><br />Now if that's fair, then so is this. And in this case, it's in print, from RCH's own website.<br /><br />Why shouldn't we take it at face value? <br /><br />Edit: I might add that many of those aforementioned threads had as their base topic arbitrary relationships between arbitrarily chosen terrain features, resulting in claims of alien civilizations due to terrain features that have a superficial resemblence to Earthly faces.<br /><br />This being the case, a simple analysis and conclusion of GRR8's username isn't any rreal stretch, is it? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[i_i_e]

Have Phil and Richard ever debated each other live?<br /><br />THAT would be fun to watch, a <b>3rd grader</b> would see right thru RH's baloney.<br /><br />

 

[a_lost_packet_]

<font color="yellow">Maxtheknife - See what happens when one misleads people?</font><br /><br />Misleads how? What are you trying to say?<br /><br />Go ahead Max, take the gloves off. I will fully support your right to say whatever it is you wish to say to me. I don't have anything personal against you, let me make that clear. I have nothing personal against any of the RCH crew. However, I admit that I find nothing redeeming about RCH or his wacky ideas.<br /><br />You can say whatever you wish to me. You can adhominem me, curse me and call me a pseudoskeptic if you want, I won't mind and I will defend your right to do so in this instance. I'm sure this new information concerning RCH hits home and you may wish to unload on someone. You can pick me if you like.<br /><br />Or, if you wish, you are more than welcome to PM me and I will do my best to have an open and honest discussion about this with you. I sincerely mean that.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

No, because Plait didn't want to include the Gizamid sized mounds at Cydonia in the discussion.<br /><br />He's nothin' but a coward who can't defend his own assertions.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

I believe that Phil and RCH have had discussions on CTC.<br /><br />In my opinion, Phil's contention is this:<br /><br />RCH insists on supporting his claims with more mythology. ie: When asked to defend a point, RCH will refer to another point that hasn't even been proved or brought up for challenge yet in the discussion. Debating RCH requires you to be intimately familiar with every single crackpot idea ever brought up on "teh interweb." To be honest, I don't think Phil really cares that much about RCH. RCH has some paranoid delusion that Phil is his own personal Anti-Christ. Phil only debunked him on www.badastronomy.com because people kept posting RCH garbage all over the place, including his own forum.<br /><br />I'd recommend that you take whatever RCH says against Phil with a grain of salt. RCH constantly rants against Phil because he feels threatened by him. RCH likes, in my opinion, to feel powerful. Feeling threatened by someone apparently just excites RCH's natural paranoia. IMO.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Packet, if I were to take off my gloves, it would only be to give ya a big 'ol <i><b>hug</b></i>!<br /><br />What's been said in the past couple of posts are just silly, stupid, and baseless accusations. It's the stuff rumors are made of.<br /><br />If you really think those things are true.... blog on and ask Richard yourself. <br /><br />Better yet, spring $4.00 and join TEM's forum for one month. You might be surprised. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[maxtheknife]

I might be mistaken..... it could've been Greenberg who didn't want to include the Gizamids....

 

[zenonmars]

<i>lolol</i>.......Well, at least we know Grr8 <i>isn't</i> Richard C.!!! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Richard's whole <b>life</b> is a "campaign" to awaken the American public to the need for NASA integrity and open responsibility to the average American taxpayer who pays for the missions. Science <b>cannot</b> be a closed cult or priesthood. We <i><b>ACT</b></i> as though we wish to educate <i>ALL</i> young people in the ways of science. We fret about the dumbing-down of American kids, and expend <i>TONS</i> of time and energy and money on the solutions to the education-deficit of the inner cities, and yet we accept "soundbites" from our government, through a complicit Media Industry? Are we willing to be satisfied with a Science Cabal that dribbles out data if and when it chooses? As it paws for scarce funding with <i>promises</i> of manned exploration <b>NOT</b> in our lifetimes?<br /><br />Well, Richard isn't settling for that. Niether am I. The "trumpet" sounders alone achieve the results we need. Remember that "uneducated" janitor with the sharp eyes at the Watergate hotel? And the persistent media who just would <b>NOT</b> stop asking the hard questions, who would just not let the story die?<br /><br />We need more folks like that. Guys like Richard Hoagland.<br /><br />Just ask Carl Rove. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Packet: <font color="yellow">RCH constantly rants against Phil because he feels threatened by him.</font><br /><br />Ok, give us three examples of RCH ranting about Plait to justify your 'constantly' comment.

 

[votefornimitz]

Post deleted by VoteforNimitz <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <span style="color:#993366">In the event of a full scale nuclear war or NEO impact event, there are two categories of underground shelters available to the public, distinguished by depth underground: bunkers and graves...</span> </div>

 

[zenonmars]

Hey, you guys in the Plait camp:<br /><br />Has Phil made any comments about the non-existant Iapetus radar or the bizarre lack of Deep Impact photo and spectra data? If you are going to bash the messenger, and as a "member" of the "accepted" astronomical "community", I would think Phil wouldn't dodge such issues. <br /><br />Also, has Phil "critiqued" Dr, Stanely McDaniel's work? I never hear his opinions about Professor McDaniel's ideas. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[thermionic]

Closed cult or preisthood? I took my son over to NASA Ames a couple of years ago, unanounced. We wandered around until we met someone, who took us on a tour, and introduced us to half a dozen other people, all of which were eager to describe their research.<br /><br />Claiming that NASA is hiding something because they act like a closed cult is self-referential. They must be hiding something because they are a closed cult. They are a closed cult because they are hiding something. But the loop gets broken when you notice that they do not act like a closed cult, or alternatively that they are very forthcoming about information, science, their activities.

 

[zenonmars]

<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Greetings, friend Vote!!! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />OK, first of all, <b>14</b>? Wow. I am envious and awestruck. There WAS no internet when I was 14.....lol......in fact, "computers" used punch cards!!!<br /><br />I am certainly going to accept your age as truthful (even though when I first got WWW-saavy some years ago, I used to <b>LIE</b> about my age......lol. No longer do I try to delude. I am 49. And jealous of your opportunities to "become more than your programing".<br /><br />Second, the origin of your nickname. Nimitz was a WWII battleship no? <br /><br />Thirdly, I welcome your attempts to make my life a living hell !!! ......lol............the Republican Party hasn't quite performed that duty adequately, so I crave any and all attempts to spice up my cyber life. And in the process, if you put down your PSP long enough to listen, you might just learn some things.........things that you desparately don't want to learn. Things that upset the "American Apple Cart". Things that pop into your brain when you least wish them there.<br /><br />Things that make you question everything you've been taught as true and unquestionable.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"I'd like to start out by saying that all of you are crazy"</font><br /><br />Ya got that right, kiddo ! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[thermionic]

I guess I was wrong, then. Proof that NASA is hiding something? Actually, I think there are just different areas at the facility, with different levels of security. I'm sure there are many places where I would have been thrown out. The area that I was in was, after all, a place that I was allowed into. <br /><br />In any case, I was just trying to point out that I don't find NASA to be as guarded or exclusive as the previous poster describes.

 

[zenonmars]

therm: <font color="yellow">"But the loop gets broken when you notice that they do not act like a closed cult, or alternatively that they are very forthcoming about information, science, their activities."</font><br /><br />Really? Can I ask you how it is that Michael Malin decided to release <i>thousands</i> of new Mars images, (images of Cydonia which he claimed publicly that he did <i>not</i> and never <i>would</i> obtain), dumped "raw" on the internet, only <b>AFTER</b> being threatened by Attorney Peter Gurston (along with the Hoagland-lead civic advocacy group FACETS) with legal suit, and only <b>AFTER</b>, through Hoagland's efforts, being threatened by Senator John McCain with <i>Senate investigations</i>?<br /><br />Will you tell your son these things, when he comes of voting age? <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Hi Nimitz, welcome to the discussion! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />When I read your post, the first thing that came to mind was another post made by Jatslo in one of the first "Iapetus Artificiality" threads. Jatslo said "holding hands w/ the majority, does not guarantee victory".<br /><br />Keep that in mind while posting. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Further, I hope you intend ask questions and substantiate your claims. For example, you say <font color="yellow"> all of your evidence is completely inadequate. </font><br /><br />Can you substantiate this opinion? Can you give a specific example and tell us why it's inadequate?<br /><br />Also, the day any of you in the 'natural' camp make my life a living hell, is the day I resign, cuz it will be the day that all of this ceased being fun. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <br /><br />Anyway, I salute you for having the courage to jump into the water at age 14. It takes guts to open one's mouth and be heard. I hope you listen as well as you speak..... that remains to be seen.

 

[votefornimitz]

Post deleted by VoteforNimitz <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <span style="color:#993366">In the event of a full scale nuclear war or NEO impact event, there are two categories of underground shelters available to the public, distinguished by depth underground: bunkers and graves...</span> </div>

 

[thermionic]

>>Will you tell your son these things, when he comes of voting age?<br /><br />Actually, I'm in the process of educating him now. I don't see the advantage of holding back knowledge until he's of voting age. That is why I take him to places like NASA centers, the local university, LLNL, and so forth. Likewise, I teach him the scientific method and how to learn from books and the 'net.<br /><br />I would certainly discuss these supposedly suppressed Mars images if I thought the issue had much significance. I know that any engineering or scientific activity will produce redundant data, and data of varying quality, so I'm not shocked that some images weren't published. I'm not familiar with the legal activity you mention, but if it's true my suspicion would be that Malin was sitting on data to get a publication advantage to advance his career. Want to give some details, and a reference that I can follow up?<br /><br />By the way, there are some Mars scientists on this forum, and I visit other forums associated with planetary science occasionally. I just don't hear these people complaining about suppressed or withheld data.

 

[maxtheknife]

Then look it over and get back to us..... you just admitted you haven't looked at the info, so how do you know whether or not it's vague? You'll have to be more specific if you want me to engage you further. <br /><br />If you don't think the links are helpful, you must have specific questions. What are they?

 

[maxtheknife]

Therm: <font color="yellow">I would certainly discuss these supposedly suppressed Mars images if I thought the issue had much significance.</font><br /><br />Hi Therm,<br /><br />I don't understand how you can think that witholding some of the most stunning, revealing, and controversial data ever obtained by NASA isn't significant?<br /><br />That other scientists aren't talking about the lack of data, etc, is not surprising. Hence the words 'Paradigm' and 'mainstream'. The thing about both those words is, historically...... inevitably...... they change.

 

[telfrow]

So, again, the question. We know GRR8 is here on "Captain's Orders." <br /><br />Max, Zen...how about you? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

I'm sure you and most others will assume the answer is 'yes, we're here on RCH's orders', regardless of how I answer.<br /><br />The only way for you to really 'know' the answer is to join TEM's forum, read a couple of threads and answer the question for yourself..... first hand. <br /><br />Come on,,, only $4.00! Richard's Porsche needs Hi-Octane gas, you know! <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <br /><br />edit: That's a joke.... I honestly have <i>no idea</i> what kind of car Richard drives!

 

[a_lost_packet_]

<font color="yellow">Maxtheknife - Ok, give us three examples of RCH ranting about Plait to justify your 'constantly' comment. </font><br /><br />I should amend that to "Anytime RCH hears mention of the word "debunking" or a referrence to anyone who has ever denied his beliefs."<br /><br />I believe RCH has brought up Phil's name a number of times on CtC. I'll try to get the transcript quotes that I've seen. It may take me awhile because I can't remember on which "woo woo" or "pseudoskeptic" site I saw them on. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> I don't make chasing RCH quotes down a particular hobby of mine.. but for you, I'll try. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />But, you have to admit, anytime anyone here mentions Phil, you guys go bonkers. It's like poking an anthill with a stick.<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>