Does a Hot Potato attract a Cold Potato?

[why06]

<p>(<em>clears throat</em>)</p><p>I've been thinking... about <strong>electrons</strong>. </p><p>Specifically how they are the main carriers of charge in materials. Electrons are also the main particles used for the exchange of heat as well. This being said would a really <strong><font color="#ff0000">hot potato</font></strong> have a greater negative charge then a very <strong><font color="#000080">cold potato</font></strong>.&nbsp;</p><p><font size="2" color="#0000ff"><strong><font color="#000000">Would the</font> two <font color="#ff0000">potatos</font><font color="#000000"> then be <font color="#000080">electrically</font></font> <font color="#000000">attracted?</font></strong></font></p><p><font color="#000000"><br />&nbsp;</font> See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_transfer</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[coeptus]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>(clears throat)I've been thinking... about electrons. Specifically how they are the main carriers of charge in materials. Electrons are also the main particles used for the exchange of heat as well. This being said would a really hot potato have a greater negative charge then a very cold potato.&nbsp;Would the two potatos then be magnetically attracted?&nbsp; See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_transfer <br /> Posted by why06</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Thought maybe the casimir effect might have been what you were angling for.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Humidity is so high here right now that a charged potato would dissipate pretty quickly.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>If you detonated a hydrogen bomb next to one of the potatoes the initial zap of gamma rays would strip away potato electrons pretty rapidly and make it charged.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>It would also turn the potato into a glowing fog of atoms moving at 5000 km per second.&nbsp; Not sure what effect you will observe on potato #2 as the potato #1 ionized plasma vapor goes by.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff00ff">If not for bad Pluck, I'd have no Pluck at all . . .</font></p><p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff">This is your vogon, posting under coeptus, and trying IE and Firefox  to see if either is faster with fewer misloads.  Erf !!</font></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[why06]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;Thought maybe the casimir effect might have been what you were angling for. <br /> Posted by vogon</DIV></p><p>Actually I was just talking about regular Coloumbs Law. should have said electrically instead of magnetically. Sorry. will edit.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[why06]

Anyone? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[billslugg]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Anyone? <br /> Posted by why06</DIV></p><p>A hot potato has it's electrons in a higher energetic state than a cold potato. There are still the same number of electrons as protons in each potato thus the charge of both is neutral thus there is no attraction. You would have to heat the hot one up to an energy equivalent to the first ionization energy of what ever of it's atoms had the lowest first ionization energy. (I believe this is cesium.) Then the hot potato would begin to shed electrons and an attraction would occur.</p><p>What usually happens is that a rupture occurs in the top of the skin of the hot potato, and the deficit of electrons attracts a pat of solidified bovine mammary gland fat and a dollop of bacterially modified emulsified bovine fat. A few grains of sodium chloride usually finds it's way into the fissure. Then a metal fork forces bites of the potato into one's mouth. It is a common occurrence, but nothing to be alarmed over.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Cs first ionization energy 375.7 kJ/mol is the lowest on record. The specific heat of Cs is 32.210 &thinsp;J&middot;mol^&minus;1&middot;K^&minus;1. In order to put 375.7 kJ into a mole of Cs it would have to be raised to a temperature of 375,700 divided by 32.210 or 11,000 degrees C.&nbsp;</p><p>That seems awfully high and I suspect it is the energy that insures that all of the first electrons are gone. A candle flame is a plasma and it is no where near 11k deg C.&nbsp;</p><p>Plus, if you ever got that high, the potato would be over done. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[why06]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>A hot potato has it's electrons in a higher energetic state than a cold potato. There are still the same number of electrons as protons in each potato thus the charge of both is neutral thus there is no attraction. You would have to heat the hot one up to an energy equivalent to the first ionization energy of what ever of it's atoms had the lowest first ionization energy. (I believe this is cesium.) Then the hot potato would begin to shed electrons and an attraction would occur.What usually happens is that a rupture occurs in the top of the skin of the hot potato, and the deficit of electrons attracts a pat of solidified bovine mammary gland fat and a dollop of bacterially modified emulsified bovine fat. A few grains of sodium chloride usually finds it's way into the fissure. Then a metal fork forces bites of the potato into one's mouth. It is a common occurrence, but nothing to be alarmed over.&nbsp;Cs first ionization energy 375.7 kJ/mol is the lowest on record. The specific heat of Cs is 32.210 &thinsp;J&middot;mol&minus;1&middot;K&minus;1. In order to put 375.7 kJ into a mole of Cs it would have to be raised to a temperature of 375,700 divided by 32.210 or 11,000 degrees C.&nbsp;That seems awfully high and I suspect it is the energy that insures that all of the first electrons are gone. A candle flame is a plasma and it is no where near 11k deg C.&nbsp;Plus, if you ever got that high, the potato would be over done. <br /> Posted by billslugg</DIV></p><p>So an increase in heat would not directly mean an increase in charge. I figured since the electrons were the primary carriers of heat there would be some kind of correlation, but an increase in energy of a molecule does not mean an increase of charge. As you and vogon put it there only seems to be not a negative force, but a positive attractivness when the other potato has shed all of its electrons and has gone into the plasma state. </p><p>So until that state is reached there no noticeable change positive or negative in the charge of the electrons? </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[R1]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;&nbsp; but a positive attractivness when the other potato has shed all of its electrons and has gone into the plasma state. So until that state is reached there no noticeable change positive or negative in the charge of the electrons? <br />Posted by why06</DIV><br /><br /><font size="2">I think you mean a noticeable change in the overall charge of the potato.</font></p><p><font size="2">I believe so.&nbsp; </font></p><p><font size="2">When I put a potato in the microwave, the microwave oven heats it up by exciting its water molecules, IIRC. They get real hyper and in time the whole potato is real hyper and ready to eat. If I sprinkle water droplets into it prior to this, it heats it up even nicer, IMO. At least a hot potato attracts me <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />.</font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[why06]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I think you mean a noticeable change in the overall charge of the potato.I believe so.&nbsp; When I put a potato in the microwave, the microwave oven heats it up by exciting its water molecules, IIRC. They get real hyper and in time the whole potato is real hyper and ready to eat. If I sprinkle water droplets into it prior to this, it heats it up even nicer, IMO. At least a hot potato attracts me . <br /> Posted by john1r</DIV></p><p>Me too, but only if its got bacon, sour cream, and cheese on top <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[Mee_n_Mac]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> I figured since the <strong>electrons were the primary carriers of heat</strong> there would be some kind of correlation ... Posted by <strong>why06</strong></DIV><br /><br />I'm lost on what your thinking is on the bolded above.&nbsp; It's a different way of characterizing 'heat' than I've heard before. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-----------------------------------------------------</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask not what your Forum Software can do do on you,</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask it to, please for the love of all that's Holy, <strong>STOP</strong> !</font></p> </div>

 

[why06]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I'm lost on what your thinking is on the bolded above.&nbsp; It's a different way of characterizing 'heat' than I've heard before. <br /> Posted by mee_n_mac</DIV></p><p>Well you see heat is a measurement of energy. And energy levels within atoms are usually held by electrons. Also the process of heat transfer is primary carried by electrons since they are the most mobile of the sub-atomic particles. Since the other baryons within an atom usuallly remain quite stationary it is up to the electrons to move around and some times bounce up to higher energy levels when the heat of a substance increases. It is also the electrons that form most of the chemical bonds in materials.&nbsp;</p><p>Hence forth I was led to think that if heat transferred and that this transfer was more specifically the transefer of electrons that the charge of the substance itself might increase when heated</p><p>I know that there are many ways that heat is transferred as in the movement of molecules or the breaking of hydrogen bonds (in water), but I am theorizing that there also must be some small amount of pure electron transfer within these heat exchange as well that would lead to an increase in negative charge of the substance being heated.</p><p>So: <strong><font color="#ff0000">Heat</font> = <font color="#0000ff">electrons primary carrier of heat</font> = <font color="#008000">some electrons must be transferred during heat transfers <font color="#000000">= <font color="#993300">charge of the substance must increase</font></font></font></strong> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[why06]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Heat = electrons primary carrier of heat = some electrons must be transferred during heat transfers = charge of the substance must increase <br /> Posted by why06</DIV></p><p>Here is an article I found on Wikipedia about Thermo electricity. It more clearly defines what I am trying to say with my more limited vocabulary. I believe it is a phenomenon seen more clearly in metals in which a temperture difference directly translates to an electrical potential. Very interesting. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectricity</p><p>and also</p><p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>