Future probes orbiting other planets and their moons

mvp347 · Jun 9, 2007

It seems that we are putting probes and satellites in orbit around more and more planets. We already have Mars (MRO), Venus (ESA's Venus EXPRESS), and soon Mercury (MESSENGER). It look like the next probes will be sent to orbit significant moons like Europa, Titan, Enceladus. How many planets and their moons will we be orbiting in the next 10 years and which ones? 20? so on?

jimfromnsf · Jun 9, 2007

Not that many more. NASA has nothing schedule past JUNO (jupiter orbiter). Funding is up in the air

MeteorWayne · Jun 9, 2007

There is not an unlimted supply of money. Pick your favorite 1 or 2, and push for them. We'll be lucky to launch 3 exploratory spacecraft a year <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jun 9, 2007

Io, Io, Io!!!!!!!!!! Pretty please! Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

h2ouniverse · Jun 9, 2007

Unfortunately very few. There will be DAWN around Vesta and Ceres that you forgot on your NASA list. on ESA side: For Europe+Japan, BepiColombo around Mercury in the 10s. Maybe an orbiter for the Exomars mission (if there is an orbiter, currently being traded-off) in the 10s. Maybe one Jupiter mission with two vehicles (being christened) in orbit in the early 20s, if selected for Cosmic Vision. Less probably one Saturn mission arriving in the mid 20s. I cannot count Solar Orbiter (only few planetary fly-bys, science orbit is really a Sun orbit) Far too few. [sad] [sad] [sad]

h2ouniverse · Jun 9, 2007

My favorites for orbiters: Europa (of course) Uranian moons 2003EL61 (too far, alas)

3488 · Jun 9, 2007

Hi H2Ouniverse. Brilliant list. I like the moons of Uranus too. Also how about Eris, Quaoar, Varuna, Ixion??? Io, Europa, Triton are musts too. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

h2ouniverse · Jun 9, 2007

Andrew why this dumb cow <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />? I hope that Laplace will be selected for Cosmic Vision. Then as a spin-off you will have several fly-bys of Io. But you need more than volcanoes to justify a Io orbiter! Remember the rad field! Only few weeks of life expectancy for a Io or Europa orbiter and the electroonics end fried. Too short for volcanoes study! Joel

mattblack · Jun 9, 2007

1): Titan Rover/Balloon combo. 2): Neptune orbiter. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America CAN Afford it!! LEO is a Prison -- It's time for a JAILBREAK!! </div>

mvp347 · Jun 9, 2007

Well after Bush is gone and the war ends, I'm sure NASA will get much more funding by 2010. With radiation problems, technological advancements will also be well ahead by 2015. I said in another thread that the new fungi found should be researched to create "radiation-to-energy" technology. We wouldn't have to worry about computers getting fried from the radiation of Jupiter, making a Europa orbiter possible.

mithridates · Jun 9, 2007

Let's also not forget that South Korea plans to send up probes to explore the Solar System starting in 2017. I imagine a number of other countries will be doing the same thing by then. We also see more and more countries contributing to the ESA all the time as well: <blockquote>In reply to:<hr />Many countries are likely to join ESA in the coming years, especially the countries who were part of the EU-enlargement in 2004. In addition ESA entered into important partnership agreements with non-member countries: * Hungary (5.11.2003 [16]), the Czech Republic (23.11.2003), Romania (17.2.2006) [7] and Poland (4.2006) signed the agreement to become an European Cooperating State (ECS) which enables them to develop a five-year Plan for European Cooperating State (PECS), that is aimed at preparing the states for full membership. Their firms can bid for and receive contracts to work on programmes. The countries can participate in almost all programmes, except for the Basic Technology Research Programme. The membership fees are much lower than with full membership. * Slovenia showed an interest in joining, either as full member or European Cooperating State, and hosting of the Galileo Supervisory Authority<hr /></blockquote> The greatest hope for extra missions in the future is the development of mid-level countries, places like South Africa, Azerbaijan, Vietnam and so on that are growing but aren't quite there yet. Or the discovery of a 100% Earth-like planet nearby, of course. Gliese 581 c almost made it but there were still some doubts about just how earthlike it is. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ----- http://mithridates.blogspot.com </div>

mithridates · Jun 9, 2007

Oh, and the single mission I want to see the most (besides Ceres, but we already have one for there just about to launch) is a Venus solar flyer. It's cheap to make, Venus takes almost no time to get to compared to other missions, and it can fly around with nearly unlimited solar energy from both above and below at the 50 km cloudtop level where the air pressure and temperature are the same as Earth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ----- http://mithridates.blogspot.com </div>

3488 · Jun 9, 2007

I would not bet on the likes of Hungary & Romania doing anything worthwhile. They cannot even afford washing machines, microwaves or decent cars!!!! If they join, it will be a drain on ESA, possibly causing it to fold, or better still, to draw a line, no countries further east than Germany, Austria & Italy should join. Greece should be kicked out. So do not hold your breath. It may sound harsh, but that is the reality of the situation. Eastern Europe cost taxpayers enough in western Europe to bail them out as it is, if they join ESA, it will cause ESA to fold, as the budget will be insufficient to make up for their shortfall. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

Boris_Badenov · Jun 9, 2007

We already have Mars (MRO), Venus (ESA's Venus EXPRESS), and soon Mercury (MESSENGER). Ummm, what about Cassini at Saturn? How about New Horizons? While it's not an orbiter, it's telescope is powerful & it will start observing months before it does it's flyby. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div> </div>

3488 · Jun 9, 2007

Thanks mithridates, I am looking forward very much to the DAWN mission to 1 Ceres & 4 Vesta (2 Pallas highly likely too). The Venus Solar Flyer would also make for a fascinating mission. H20universe, the point about a potential Io orbiter, is not just the volcanoes on their own, but other geological processes that may be happening, that can only be seen at very high resolution (particulalrly faulting) & is also a good chemical laboratory, showing how different compounds behave at different temperatures in a very high radiation environment. I do not think that I posted a poor list at all. You like Ice / water bodies very much & my list compliment yours very well. We both share the same fascination with the moons of Uranus ( I still look at the Voyager 2 images with the same fascination now as I did in 1986). We both share that same fascination with Europa & Triton, as well as 2003 EL61. I added Eris, Quaoar, etc, because these objects are not only a very long way from the sun, but because they are large, Eris is the largest known KBO (also has a medium sized moon Dysnomia) & Quaoar, something weird has happened there, with it being virtually a huge ball of crystaline ice. So I think our areas of interest in many respects are not that different. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 9, 2007

Hi Boris1961, Yes the LORRI camera aboard New Horizons will exceed the best current views of Pluto & Charon, some three months prior to closest approach. As you know, New Horizons recently passed Jupiter & from 2.7 million kilometres, showed detail of 13 kilometres per pixel (pretty impressive performance IMO). However the sunlight at Jupiter is 25 times as intense as that at Pluto, so not sure what kind of difference that will make. If New Horizons keep to the current timeline, the best images of Pluto will be about 45 metres per pixel, Charon 95 metres per pixel, Nix & Hydra, don't know as yet. It has been rumoured that the closest approach to Pluto may be put back three days, so that Charon will be much closer, thus allowing imagery of the same resolution as Pluto (45 metres per pixel). I think they should do that. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

portercc · Jun 9, 2007

Neptune orbiter, Jupiter orbiter. Both with HiRise and both with rovers similar to current rovers on Mars (except power source). Scope out Europa and Triton with HiRISE and release rovers when satisfactory sites are found.

mvp347 · Jun 9, 2007

I read that Cassini will have a problem taking picture of Enceladus because of the geysers that constantly shoot up plumes of water vapor. The antenna must be pointed straight ahead so to avoid large ice particles and motion blur would not be able to be reduced because it would involve tilting the entire craft. Here's an article about Cassini's extended mission: http://www.saturndaily.com/reports/Tour_de_Saturn_Set_For_Extended_Play_999.html

mvp347 · Jun 9, 2007

portercc, Rover's would not have a place to land on Jupiter and Neptune, they are gas planets....... Even if they had a solid part to land on, the gravitational force would crush any rover we send. Now sending rovers to Europa and Triton would work, but radiation converters must first be created so computers wouldn't get fried from Jupiter's radiation on Europa.

3488 · Jun 9, 2007

Thanks mvp347, for this update 100 KM encounter with Rhea & only 23 Km from Enceladus!!! These will call for some very accurate navigation!!! 500 KM from Dione, 9,700 KM from Mimas & 1,500 KM from Helene & 27 extra close encounters with Titan, as well as Saturn equinoxial observations, this is going to be one hell of an exciting extended mission. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

h2ouniverse · Jun 10, 2007

Unfortunately contributions to ESA science budget are directly function of GDP. And there we are talking of real GDP. Not the PPP values used to mask differences between rich and poor countries. PPP values are meaningless except for assessing per capita living standards. So for now, for Science budget it is Germany 21%, UK 17%, France 15% Italy 13% and then you decline rapidly for other countries. Newcomers would represent few tenths of a percent each. Excepted Poland with a whopping 3% . For us in space industry small contributors are a nightmare, especially for low cost missions, because it is very hard to find flight-ready hardware to subcontract to such countries. Remember we have to comply with geographical return calculated for EACH mission. Actually this generates severe cost increase for the ESA missions (from 20% in best cases to 100% when you have to abandon platform recurrence because of geo return). ESAâ€™s members (or would be members GDP) Germany 2900 bn$ UK 2350 bn$ France 2250 bn$ Italy 1850 bn$ Spain 1225 bn$ Netherlands 663 Belgium 393 Sweden 385 Switzerland 377 Poland 338 Norway 335 Austria 321 Greece 307 Denmark 276 Ireland 222 Finland 210 Portugal 195 Czech R 142 Romania 121 Hungary 114 Luxemburg 40 Slovenia 37

h2ouniverse · Jun 10, 2007

Hi Andrew, Sorry for the joke about Io. <img src="/images/icons/blush.gif" /> Alas an orbiter for a KBO is not achievalbe for ESA -no RTGs-, and a 1bn-class mission for NASA). I would prefer 2003EL61 over other KBO, when dreaming of an orbiter. Because it is spinning fast, with disturbance of two moons and a very high clean-ice-like albedo. So may be there is a potential strong dissipation of the spin energy with sub-iceshelf seas under the bulges of the primary, Enceladus-like. If we orbit there, this is to look for transient phenomena and I don't think Quaoar or Ixion would be of interest: a fly-by by a pair of S/C (for both faces) would be enough. May be we will find other multiple subsystems in extended disk soon... Eris+Dysnomia would be great but is so far (97 AU)... You are right to mention Triton. But I would guess a Neptune's orbiter would be more affordable. Orbiting a moon is so expensive (two insertion delata vs). Respectful regards Joel

h2ouniverse · Jun 10, 2007

Andrew, I think that for observation of Io, the best is a Jupiter orbiter or, as I saw presneted by guys working for NASA, a Ganymede orbiter. This latter would have as an advantage a long life expectancy (not in radiations belts), relatively short distance to Io and Europa for good imagery, plus the stduy of Ganymede itself that is "worth a detour" with its highly probable subsurface ocean. I think the project is called GO (TBC). There is also the possibility that the Jupiter Orbiter of Laplace ends up as a Ganymede orbiter, but that is less likely today because of resulting increase in launch costs. Regards Joel

holmec · Jun 10, 2007

With any luck, thousands. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />. Just being facicious. The more the merrier though. Its not just NASA its all the space agencies that are interested in exploration. There's so much to explore just in our solar system: Inner planets, Gas Giants and their moons, asteroid belt, Kuiper belt, NEOs, and whatever more we discover. I'd love to see Universities get in on the game with small probes and clustered launches. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off </div>

3488 · Jun 10, 2007

Hi Joel, I agree with 2003 EL61 (will be good when it gets a proper name). As you say, with two large moons (maybe smaller ones too), & at least covered in crysyalline ice, it would make for an target. Eris too is worth an effort. I would love to see Sedna. An imposter in the solar system? An interloper from another solar system??? Quaoar appears to be at least covered in crystalline ice, so something interesting has haapened there. Uranus & Neptune orbiters are a must IMO. Not only Uranus & Neptune to be studied, but also their fascinating moons. A Ganymede orbiter would be superb. Ganymede is a fascinating object, clearly undergoing a second episode of activity more recently. Below Sippur Sulcus on Ganymede. 55 KM long, 17 KM wide. A cryocaldera???? Credit NASA/JPL. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

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