Future probes orbiting other planets and their moons

[holmec]

>Well after Bush is gone and the war ends, I'm sure NASA will get much more funding by 2010. <<br /><br />Don't count on it. Just because one source of money hogging ends doesn't mean Demos will give it to NASA, it will probably some set of new programs. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi holmec.<br /><br />I fear that what you have said is most likely very true, concerning post Bush budgeting.<br /><br />I too would love to see universities get involved.<br /><br />NEAR/Shoemaker, MESSENGER & New Horizons, (John Hopkins University) shows that this approach works<br />rather well. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[h2ouniverse]

Fantastic picture Andrew.<br />I am still amazed by people refusing to consider liquid water elsewhere than Earth. It is so obvious that as soon as you have a differentiated body with rock and ice, the body MUST have had water. The differentiation process implies melting of ice. And then the cooling comes from the outside. So even if water is no longer here, it had to be there in the past very close to surface.<br /><br />BTW even partial differentiation seems to be enough for a liquid layer to form (see Callisto, which is not differentiated, or not fully differentiated, and yet with a suspicion of subsurface ocean).<br />Joel

 

[h2ouniverse]

That would be great indeed if universities could do it. Even if they had to depend on industry for a bit, established industry working out of the frames of agencies has the capability to mass-produce recurring minisat platforms for few millions. (the cost being then mainly made by high tech units such as star trackers or gyros)

 

[h2ouniverse]

Andrew<br />About EL61, do you know whether the Brown-Ortiz dispute is delaying the christening?

 

[3488]

Hi Joel,<br /><br />I think that Earth is alone in having exposed liquid water on the surface,<br />but underground in objects like Europa, Ganymede & Callisto, why not??<br /><br />You are correct in saying what you did about both Ganymede & Callisto.<br /><br />Ganymede is very heavily differentiated, possibly even having a double layered core<br />like the Earth!!!!<br /><br />Callisto is at best only very partially differentiated, if at all.<br /><br />The is some evidence of a slight concentration of rock & metal towards the centre,<br />though not to the extent of forming a core & mantle.<br /><br />Ganymede appears to have had a secondary period of activity about 1 GYA, cause<br />unknown, but certainly something caused Ganymede to change orbit temporarily, stocking<br />up internal heat for a second time.<br /><br />Callisto was clearly unaffected by this event.<br /><br />I like your minisat idea. If it was managed & financed properly, it would work<br />extremely well.<br /><br />Concerning 2003 EL61, I wonder if that dispute is the cause.<br /><br />An object of that size should be given a proper name ASAP.<br /><br />I wonder if the powers that be, ever look at SDC???<br /><br />Between us all, we come up with some fab ideas.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

<Oh, and the single mission I want to see the most (besides Ceres, but we already have one for there just about to launch) is a Venus solar flyer.><br /><br />Seen at the latest JPL open house is an engineering model for a Venus aerostat - a big silver baloon. They also had a big blimp-like model for a possible Titan mission.<br /><br />If I had to choose I would vote for the Titan mission.

 

[portercc]

"Neptune orbiter, Jupiter orbiter. Both with HiRise and both with rovers similar to current rovers on Mars (except power source). Scope out Europa and Triton with HiRISE and release rovers when satisfactory sites are found."<br />Come on mvp347 re-read the post ABOVE. The rovers would be for Triton and Europa...I KNOW JUPITER AND NEPTUNE ARE "GAS PLANETS".

 

[mvp347]

hehe oops! I interpreted it sort of wrong.........

 

[3488]

Hi gunsandrockets.<br /><br />Yes a Titan mission is very desirable. The blimp looks the next logical step.<br /><br />It can land in many places, take images & other data from the surface, then<br />take off again & land elsewhere & repeat.<br /><br />When the blimp is showing its age, the balloon part could be jetissoned, &<br />the lander could continue to take images & other data, from its final landing spot <br />till that packs up.<br /><br />One idea would be to use Titan's winds for transport, but I think an airship<br />approach would be better, as it could visit many more locations over a greater<br />latitudal range.<br /><br />Using the Titan winds AFAIK, would just push the blimp eastwards, with very little change<br />in latitude.<br /><br />A Titan Rover would be very nice too.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi Joel (H2Ouniverse),<br /><br />You might like the following images of Ganymede.<br /><br />Cryovolcanic feature.<br /><br />Galileo Spacecraft.<br /><br />Credit NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Another Cryovolcanic feature on Ganymede. <br /><br />Galileo Spacecraft. <br /><br />This entire scene is about 30 KM across.<br /><br />Credit NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Ganymede: Memphis Facula (340 KM across) Nidaba Facula (300 KM across) Voyager 1.<br /><br />Credit NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Ganymede: Small hills in the north.<br /><br />Galileo Spacecraft. <br /><br />Credit NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Ganymede.<br /><br />Weird 'craters' or collaped pits, near to a cryovolcanic caldera. <br /><br />Perhaps collapsing cryolava tubes????<br /><br />Ganymede has a surface gravity of 14.62% of that of earth, so such features could<br />be very large. <br /><br />This image covers about 40 KM wide (left to right).<br /><br />Galileo Spacecraft.<br /><br />Credit NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

An interesting view.<br /><br />Ganymede rolling hills, small craters & what looks like channels (although I do not think that<br />Ganymede has ever had rivers).<br /><br />Also at top with what looks like a degraded double ringed 'crater'.<br /> <br />Galileo Spacecraft.<br /><br />Credit NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Ganymede.<br /><br />Ice Faulting. <br /><br />Galileo Spacecraft.<br /><br />Credit NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Either that or a disrupted asteriod/tiny moon.<br />Interesting <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Thanks MeteorWayne.<br /><br />I do not know why the last two images are so dark?<br /><br />I had brightened them & enhanced the contrast a bit, but they still look a bit dark.<br /><br />Re your small moon idea. I would not rule that out actually.<br /><br />Ganymede is very large, has a resonably strong gravitational pull & is quite a<br />long way out from Jupiter.<br /><br />If Ganymede was in a heliocentric orbit & perhaps further from the Sun, Ganymede would have<br />no problems with holding on to an atmosphere (see Titan & Triton) & a family of <br />moons (see KBOs Eris, Pluto & 2003 EL61).<br /><br />It is worth mentioning that Ganymede is 25 times more massive than either Eris or Pluto & a <br />tad over twice as massive as our own Moon.<br /><br />Yes very intruiging indeed.<br /><br />Ganymede has clearly undergone renewed activity at some point.<br /><br />I am researching Ganymede at the moment & have access to images (from the<br /> Voyagers & Galileo)<br />that have rarely been seen<br />(The last few are among those).<br /><br />They are available on the public domain & I have contacted JPL & they said it is <br />no problem (no copyright issues for research. I am not selling anything & am not<br />making any financial gain from it. I am doing this because I want to & to <br />share it with other interested people).<br /><br />Please see this link as evidence.<br /><br />Anthmartian & rlb2 may be interested in the above link.<br /><br />I will post some on this thread as & when I work through them.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[h2ouniverse]

Andrew<br />Thank you for these fantastic pictures of Ganymede (where do you get them?). I hope we will have a mission there quickly.<br /><br />Btw for EL61, apparently, Mike Brown proposed Hawaiian god names for the primary and the two moons. My best bets.: Maui, Hina, Lono, Kane, Kanaloa, Ku.<br />Maui would be great with reference to Alliance Maui ocean planet in the Hyperion SF universe of Dan Simmons. Especially if there are oceans in the bulges.<br /><br />I am desperately trying to model the g-field at el61's surface and I cannot figure out how it can have a 3D shape, especially an elliptical equator, even assuming an heterogeneous silicate+H2O distribution. I do not succeed for now in balancing gravity, centrifugal force and ground reaction.

 

[3488]

Hi Joel,<br /><br />I got them from the JPL PDS site.<br /><br />Remeber I have cropped, enlarged & attempted to improve the contrast,<br />though they look rather dark.<br /><br />I do not know enough about 2003 EL61 to really comment. I think<br />silylene may the person to ask.<br /><br />I will post more Ganymede images as & when I work through them.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Been able to dredge a few more rarely seen images up.<br /><br />Ganymede. Crater with a ridged dome. <br /><br />Galileo Spacecraft.<br /><br />Credit NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Ganymede.<br /><br />'Frosted' hills & craters near North Pole. <br /><br />Evidence of outgassing?<br /><br />Galileo Spacecraft.<br /><br />Credit NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Ganymede 'frosty' crater near North Pole.<br /><br />Evidence of 'outgassing'?<br /><br />Galileo Spacecraft.<br /><br />Credit NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Ganymede two craters with flat smoothish floors.<br /><br />Galileo Spacecraft.<br /><br />Credit NASA/JPL.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>