if the universe and space was created at the moment of the big bang where did the big bang happen At the instan before the event there was nowhere a?

[bootstrapper]

before the bb

 

[Connor]

Stephen Hawking describes what was before the Big Bang as, "The Big Bounce" where the entire universe never ends, but compresses and decompresses itself. A theory I believe in.

 

[Catastrophe]

I also think that the big bang (note no capitals) was only a transition (nexus) between two phases of the Universe (capital U).

Cat

 

[Catastrophe]

bootstrap
Have you seen Forum Feedback Agreed terms help sensible discussion

Cat

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

If you think of the BB as just an event in a never ending universe of quantum fluctuation the origin and creation of energy for a BB is possible from the properties of fluctuation and it's ability to create sub atomic particles.
Right now fluctuation creates then promptly destroys particles.
Before fluctuation was balanced it probably only created particles and didn't destroy them. (creation of everything).

A BB as the universe from a 0 point in space to create everything i think is a poor understanding of reality with lots of leaps of faith.
We might be thinking to regionally about what is the universe.

JMO

 

[Catastrophe]

That is one of the weaknesses of the BBT or of our perception of the BB.

Cat

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

That is one of the weaknesses of the BBT or of our perception of the BB.

Cat

Yep like a chicken an an egg with no chicken

 

[IG2007]

before the bb

There was nothing before the Big Bang. No time, no space, no matter, no energy - nothing whatsoever, so there is nothing of something before the Big Bang.

Now, that's the typical answer you will get from typical BB-theorists, and I quite agree with it.

 

[rod]

"before the bb", the answer is simple. There were stars older than the BB event This problem with dating the age of the universe and finding interesting objects dated older than the universe, has been around a long time now. IN SEARCH OF ANCIENT SUNS, https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/in-search-of-ancient-suns/

My observation. The age of the universe can vary based upon different input parameters like for H0 using the cosmology calculators, https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/help/cosmology_calc.html, and, https://www.kempner.net/cosmic.php. A good example is the kempner.net calculator. Using H0 = 70 km/s/Mpc, the age of the universe is “age of the Universe at z = 13.2451 Gyr” when z = 0 and H0 = 70 km/s/Mpc. Thus some stars can still be dated older than the universe beginning using BB cosmology calculators. This was a problem when H0 = 500 km/s/Mpc in the early days of redshift surveys with the universe age near 2 billion years old. Using cosmology calculator I, H0 = 70 km/s/Mpc and z = 0, the universe age is "It is now 13.642 Gyr since the Big Bang. The age at redshift z was 13.642 Gyr." Using cosmology calculator II with H0 = 70 km/s/Mpc z =0, universe age is "Age of the universe: 13.4112 Gyr, which is 100% of the age of the universe today. Lookback time: 0 Gyr." The Hubble time for age of the universe in the expanding universe model for the BB is very sensitive to input parameter changes. The list of 5 very old stars in the S&T report is also a good example of the 2nd Law operating in the universe, entropy and decay.

So my answer *before the bb*, old stars and globular clusters dated older than the universe

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

There was nothing before the Big Bang. No time, no space, no matter, no energy - nothing whatsoever, so there is nothing of something before the Big Bang.

Now, that's the typical answer you will get from typical BB-theorists, and I quite agree with it.

If the BB is everything then possible it was nothing then BB in some very weird energy creation moment with all the perfect rules for it to work and continue as we see it.
A one in forever event that just happen to have matter/energy/space/time/speed light all pretty much exactly correct.

Or do we have a building law that sets everything like fluctuation that sets all the laws then creates energy/matter that already have those other rules in them.
Then at some unthinkable time scale BB when energy is just right or collision happens.

I suspect before BB was a different BB etc etc and probably infinity of them in infinity.
Microwave background points to collisions with other BB's so i bet the BB is just 1 and we have to rethink just what the universe is.

 

[Catastrophe]

"we have to rethink just what the universe is."

Good point. The cyclic idea avoids impossible singularities.

Cat

 

[IG2007]

The cyclic idea avoids impossible singularities.

It also avoids Human imagination.

 

[Catastrophe]

IG, I disagree. "It also avoids Human imagination."

It takes imagination to develop the cyclic idea.

Cat

 

[Catastrophe]

if the universe and space was created at the moment of the big bang where did the big bang happen At the instan before the event there was nowhere a?

On the "other side" of the BB 'was' a narrowing nexus, according to cyclic ideas.
'
Cat

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

"we have to rethink just what the universe is."

Good point. The cyclic idea avoids impossible singularities.

Cat

Would be nice if the universe had some chicken and egg and reason for the chicken. The universe might be a once in forever thing or just a straight forward conclusion to energy with creation rules that happen to infinity.

Nature sure doesn't have to make us happy though so anything goes and we might have to learn to live with whatever the reality of the universe and how odd or not it is and if it even has chickens

 

[Catastrophe]

Forget chicken and egg, This is anthropocentric confusion.

Ask where a circle starts. If anyone wishes to be pedantic, and ask where the pencil first touches the paper, then have your circle printed, so that all parts of the circle are printed simultaneously.

Cat

 

[IG2007]

IG, I disagree. "It also avoids Human imagination."

It takes imagination to develop the cyclic idea.

Cat

It indeed takes imagination to develop, but imagination is not enough to comprehend it.

 

[Catastrophe]

IG, OK I now understand how you meant it. Sorry. It was ambiguous.

Cat

 

[IG2007]

IG, OK I now understand how you meant it. Sorry. It was ambiguous.

Cat

Yes, it is my fault that I wrote it that way. That's no fault of yours.

 

[Catastrophe]

if the universe and space was created at the moment of the big bang
They were not

where did the big bang happen
non-question


At the instan before the event there was nowhere a?
Pardon?

What more is there to say?

Cat

 

[sam85geo]

Thanks folks; a really thoughtful discussion. A bit beyond me but I learned.

 

[Catastrophe]

I suggest post #20 concludes the question.

Cat

 

[Dragrath]

In general the "big bang" is more or less a phase transition of the universe we can't know what if anything was there before the big bang since the phase transition has effectively to our current theories obscured by our ignorance as quantum mechanics and general relativity break down at the plank scale.

Inflation is a popular model that tries to explain the apparent uniformity but it is a hypothesis that is currently untested. It should be kept in mind as inflation is the model which generally leads to multiverse assumptions as inflation is a process that if it existed it wouldn't have stopped everywhere. As an example of an alternative explanation to inflation it could for instance represent a phase transition reducing the amount of of dimensions of "spacetime" these both would largely result in the same uniform CMB barring a few minute differences that might be able to be perceived with sufficient resolution of the CMB.

 

[Catastrophe]

I don't know whether you have seen my posts, but I believe that the "BB" was a nexus between two phases. There was no singularity. There is no infinite anything. It is cyclic.

Cat

P.S. I should have added that after 'BB' there is expansion then contraction to point above. Approaching singularity but new 'BB 'before 'infinite' density etcetera is reached. But I think you knew that anyway.

 

[IG2007]

I don't know whether you have seen my posts, but I believe that the "BB" was a nexus between two phases. There was no singularity. There is no infinite anything. It is cyclic.

Cat

Cat, with all due respect, you know, you are kind of disagreeing with yourself. A universe that is cyclic and something that has been cyclic forever must be infinite. I mean, at least, logic says so.