Images of Mars -- Part 2

rlb2 · Feb 22, 2005

Enlargement of the center of the above image. 2P162233683EFFAL5M1.19 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Feb 22, 2005

Enlargement of the bottom right of the above image. 2P162233683EFFAL5M1.17 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

claywoman · Feb 22, 2005

Okay, I'm not a geologist, heck, I'm not even a scientist, I am however someone who has seen stuff and this picture looks to me like a mud flat. 2P160727193EFFAL2M1.5 I know, some of you will give me a million reasons why I'm wrong, but please, do it gently.... It sure looks like mud to me and I know that can't be right because I doubt if its rained on Mars in millions of years, but it still looks like mud to me!

alpha_taur1 · Feb 22, 2005

I think I've been through just about about all the arguments on this subject many times. NASA have again and again said that the surface of Mars is dry, except perhaps for minute traces of moisture, yet people look at a picture and make up their own minds. People are conditioned to see wet material. It comes from living on a soggy planet. Many people think it looks like mud. Maybe what might help is to simulate this using dry materials and take a picture of it. I might do that. If it's mud, why does it behave like dry powder when you trench it?

chew_on_this · Feb 22, 2005

I think it's mostly because this "dirt" has been blown around for so long and reduced down to such a fine level, it's electrostatically "sticky" which makes it appear wet. I think this was discussed earlier in the missions.

rlb2 · Feb 22, 2005

Actually for the above image it does look more like fine grain material like talcum powder or flour. Get some flour out and role it without adding moisture and you can get the same effect. One scientist even suggested bacterial mats, like exist at Yellowstone National park. There is a difference however of these tracks and some of the other tracks. Some of the other tracks have more of a smoother shiny running mucky look. What that is I don't know - in those images it sure looks like muck to me. What type of process other than some form of liquid would do that I don't know. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

Swampcat · Feb 23, 2005

From Spirit, Sol 404 (L2, L5 & L7 filters): Full-size image (1024x1024, 317kb) BTW, I'm trying something a little different with this image. Feedback welcomed.<img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Feb 23, 2005

Spirit image from Sol 404 showing Mars' moon transit of Sun (colorized). From Unexplainable.net: <blockquote>"Deimos crosses the sun's disc in only about 50 to 60 seconds. Phobos moves even more quickly, crossing the sun in only 20 to 30 seconds."</blockquote> Images were taken 10 seconds apart, so this is likely Phobos, but haven't found anything yet from JPL about the event. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

alpha_taur1 · Feb 23, 2005

Erm Firstly the colour is not accurate, since it's a false colour composite, secondly magnesium sulfate is actually white. Now ferric sulphate is brown.

Swampcat · Feb 25, 2005

"Firstly the colour is not accurate, since it's a false colour composite..." Which image are you referring to? I've seen some of the published renditions of the Spirit images supposedly showing indications of salts and they are clearly simple RGB composites made from the raw images without any additional processing. In those images, some of the regolith appears white (leftmost image below). IMO, this does, indeed, give a false impression of what are likely the actual colors one would see if they were being viewed by the naked eye (OK, at least as viewed through a helmet visor). It's also true that some of these images use the infrared and ultraviolet filters instead of red and blue. Though this has an effect on the resulting image, it isn't all that much (compare the rightmost two images below). JPL has used both combinations of filters in the past and called the result of both "approximate" true color...not "false" color. Of course, I can't say that the colors are perfectly accurate, but IMO it is incorrect to call them false. I'm no chemist (though I did impersonate one in college chemistry labs a few years back <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />), but as can be seen in the images I posted, the material that appears white in the raw composite shows up in the processed image as a color that might result from yellowish sulfur mixing with reddish ferric oxide...or the ferric sulphate you mentioned. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

alpha_taur1 · Feb 25, 2005

As far as the image is concerned, you're doing a good job at carrying out an empirical colour correction, and I realise that you can use algorithms to get a reasonably acceptable colour, even using L2,4 and 7 as you have done. I think you must know the issues with raw RGB images and must accept that these are approximations without using exposure data for each filter. Of course sulfur is yellow, but native sulfur is unlikely in this situation, especially given the mineral assemblages we have seen up to now. Sulfate minerals, such as Jarosite and Kieserite have been confirmed. These clearly show a correlation between magnesium and sulfur levels, and other corraborating data strongly indicate that the sulfur is present in the +6 oxidation state, which is consistent with the environment. I'm also a chemist from way back, but I'm trying to quit the habit <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> You may claim to be alpha canis majoris, but you cannot be Sirius /safety_wrapper>

Swampcat · Feb 25, 2005

"I think you must know the issues with raw RGB images and must accept that these are approximations without using exposure data for each filter." Exactly. That's why I prefer the term "approximate true color" for the results of my processing. I was just a little concerned about your use of the term "false color"and wanted some elucidation. Thanks.<img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> I realize that without the exposure data I am pretty much flying blind from the start, but that's just something I've had to deal with since I'm not privy to that information. Sometimes I think I get it right, sometimes I don't. Oh, well...I suppose I'd worry about that if I was getting paid to do it <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Feb 25, 2005

From Oppy, Sol 379 (L3, L5 & L6 filters): <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Feb 28, 2005

From Spirit, Sol 406. Another transit, probably Phobos. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Feb 28, 2005

Oppy, Sol 367 (L3, L5 & L6 filters): <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Feb 28, 2005

Oppy, Sol 389 (L2, L5 & L7 filters): <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Feb 28, 2005

Oppy, Sol 389 (L2, L5 & L7): Full-size image (724x724, 107kb) Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Feb 28, 2005

Oppy, another from Sol 389 (L2, L5 & L7 filters): <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

rlb2 · Mar 1, 2005

rlb2 your image of the meteorite is exactly the same color as one would expect to see on earth of a nickel / iron meteorite. JPL's images had it looking like a painted red and blue rock. Thanks. All of us here is trying to create what we think is an accurate representation of the Martian surface by combining the different channels to come up with a color images of Mars as we see it. I've stated many times before on how I come up with my images. Remember the color you see from our postings will not be the exact same as our images because every monitor or screen color is set a little different. Here is some interesting oppy images.. 1P162715517ESFL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Mar 1, 2005

1P162715984ESFL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Mar 1, 2005

1P162717854ESFL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Mar 1, 2005

1P162718086ESFL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Mar 1, 2005

1P162717417ESFL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

anoolios · Mar 1, 2005

There are some new press release images of Opportunity's heat shield scene up on the NASA MER website. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20050228a.html Of particular relevance to this thread are a couple of images of which it is stated: <hr />"This is the panoramic camera team's best current attempt at generating a true-color view of what this scene would look like if viewed by a human on Mars. It was generated from a mathematical combination of six calibrated, left-eye panoramic camera images acquired around 1:50 p.m. local solar time on Opportunity's sol 322 (Dec. 19, 2004) using filters ranging in wavelengths from 430 to 750 nanometers." <hr /> It would be interesting to get an overview of the process that the pan cam team uses to generate these images. Does anyone know if they have published something on this?

rlb2 · Mar 1, 2005

Thank you. Some of my images of the heat shield taken at the same time of day as those mathematical modeled images are pretty darn close to what they showed. Considering that I do more than just process the images by adding contrast and sharpening them it is gratifying knowing that I am on the right track. This helps me to prove out my color scheme for Oppy.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

Images of Mars -- Part 2

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