Images of Mars Part IV, Victoria Crater/Home Plate and MRO

[bonzelite]

that MRO image that you re-colored looks like it was carved and shaped by water, ie, the layered and scalloped terrain.

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">that MRO image that you re-colored looks like it was carved and shaped by water, ie, the layered and scalloped terrain.<font color="white"><br /><br />I agree, there may be several explanations for it but alluvial type flow should be at the top of the list...<br /><br />1P221842300EL5M1</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

2P222328367EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[robnissen]

Breathtaking!!

 

[rlb2]

New, Opportunity rover, new raw images finally posted.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P223439302EFL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P222554097EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[JonClarke]

The sand blasting on those walls is really quite extraordinary. the wind must really whistle round the crags.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">The sand blasting on those walls is really quite extraordinary. <br />the wind must really whistle round the crags.<font color="white"><br /><br />Extraordinary is a good word to use to describe it. Considering how much <br />less dense the Martian atmosphere is to Earths it is still quite amazing how much <br />energy it would take to just pick up one little grain of sand to do that. The winds <br />would have to get over 50 meters per second for an extended period of <br />time to do that much sand blasting.<br /><br />To me this is another good example of a denser atmosphere in the not to <br />distant past. The physics just doesn't match up with what we are finding <br />unless global dust storms with extremely high winds come close to the surface. <br /><br />Note: Global dust storms do create a denser atmosphere and can last for months <br />as a result can create a favorable condition with less wind speeds to pick up a <br />grain of sand. Although it would be colder on the surface it would also be more <br />favorable for water to stay in a liquid form on the surface longer....<br /><br />2P224991373EL5M1<br /><br /><br /></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[silylene old]

<font color="yellow">Considering how much less dense the Martian atmosphere is to Earths it is still quite amazing how much energy it would take to just pick up one little grain of sand to do that. </font><br /><br />Agreed. I was also amazed at the recent pictures of eroded rock faces from Candor Chasma region of Mars' Valles Marineris canyon system. Such extensive wind-based erosion !<br /><br />But then I am reminded that many Martian surface features have been exposed to the (thin) sand-blasting of the Martian winds for staggering <i>billions</i> of years. So much time - perhaps pre-dating the first single-celled lifeforms on earth 'til modern man, these cliffs were just standing there, ever so slowly eroding away. Just amazing. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">But then I am reminded that many Martian surface features have <br />been exposed to the (thin) sand-blasting of the Martian winds for staggering <br />billions of years.<font color="white"><br /><br />That brings up an interesting question – What is the age of Endurance crater? <br />I doubt that it is over 10 million years old because of all the jagged edges <br />around its crest. <br /><br />Will they take a carbon dating instrument on future rovers, then again you <br />need to find some carbon to do that???<br /><br />2P225169146EL5M1</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

And carbon dating's no good for millions of years. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">And carbon dating's no good for millions of years.<font color="white"><br /><br />Your right after reading up more on carbon dating I found that it is only <br />good for 60,000 years because of the half life of the dating material, carbon-14,<br />is 5730 years. <br /><br />There are some other dating type techniques that can be used in conjunction <br />with Carbon dating (Carbon dating can be used for more recent material), <br />such as Uranium-lead dating that is good for billions of years.<br /><br /><font color="orange"><br />Uranium-lead is one of the oldest and most refined radiometric dating <br />schemes, with a routine age range of about 1 million years to over 4.5 billion years,<br />and with routine precisions in the 0.1- 1 percent range.<br /><br />One of the great advantages of uranium-lead dating is that any sample provides <br />two clocks, one based on the decay of uranium-235 to lead-207 with a half-life of <br />about 700 million years, and one based on the decay of uranium-238 to lead-206 <br />with a half-life of about 4.5 billion years. If the sample is old enough – more than <br />about 400 million years – significant loss (leakage) by the sample of its <br />uranium-generated lead will cause discordance between the two uranium-lead ages.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium-lead_dating<br /><br /><font color="white">There would undoubtedly be some other unforeseen issues in using a <br />dating technique on Mars that would have to be addressed first such as scalability <br />of the instruments to fit on the rover, the mass of the instument, the Martian <br />atmosphere, etc...<br /><br />By using some known acceptable dating techniques we will be able to eliminate <br />some of the guess work however I'm sure that an acceptable dating technique must have <br />been thought of extensively in the past and currently thought about by future and <br />past rover team scientist</font></font></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[franontanaya]

A "mudcano"?<br /><br />Located at the lower right part of PSP_001503_2180.<br />Unlike other mounds that can be seen at the area, this one has a central hole. Excuse the poor coloring. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Re 2P225171986EL5M1:<br /><br />Those look like pebbles weathering out <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

MRO is going to realign our understanding of Mars. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">Those look like pebbles weathering out <font color="white"> <br /><br />I agree almost like they were evolving out of the rock.<br /><br />1P225388124EFL5M1</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

2P225615648EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Re PSP_001503_2180.:<br /><br />Quite possibly. Other options include a pingo (quite likely at this high latitude) or even a small volcanic cone. But certainly a constructional landform of some type. How big is it?<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Having those pebbles does reinforce a possible airfall (or water fall) origin for these sediments. What's the relation of this rock to Home plate?<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[franontanaya]

Re PSP_001503_2180.: <br /><br />It's a full zoom on the image, which is projected to 25 cms/pixel, so around a hundred meters Ø for the mound itself (the whole crop should be around 178 m x 148 m).<br /><br />You are right, it really seems a pingo. It looks like this one in Alaska. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Since I had to look it up, thought I'd share <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />"The Inuvialuktun word pinguryuaq refers to a hill with a core of ice. Pingos, as they are known in English, are formed in areas of permafrost when ponds or lakes are drained. When the wet lake bed freezes, the ice below expands and is forced upwards. "<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

That's the definition of a closed pibgo. The open pingoes, AKA hydrolaccoliths - try that at a party) are formed by springs when artesian waters are forzen in the subsurface causing an ice lens. Melting of the ice at the top causes the crater in both types.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Thanks - it's a nice size for all of the landforms we have suggested. Mud volcanoes and pingos are sociable beasts - any sign of others in the area?<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Thanks for the clarification Jon. You learn something new every day here at SDC <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>