Images of Mars Part IV, Victoria Crater/Home Plate and MRO

[franontanaya]

There's plenty of them in the image, though only two show a central crater. <br /><br />I picked some crops here. The first one seems younger. <br />Other mounds seem flattened or eroded, usually more at one side.<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Wow! Thanks.<br /><br />Pingoes are on the list of things I have never seen but would like to. So all I know is from books rather than person experience.<br /><br />It appears that there are lots of odd mounds in the area. If we lable the images you have posted<br /><br />AD<br />BE<br />CF<br /><br />I suggest E might be a young pingo, A and C mature ones (note the tension fractures across the crest?). D is the one you posted before, and might be in late middle age with the first signs of collapse forming the crater. C would be the final stages of collpase with low releif and a large crater. E looks like an impact structure to me, but could be where I pingo once was I guess.<br /><br />With mud and lava volcanoes I would expect to see a crater on the top of all of them, not just a few. <br /><br />What I find exciting is the fact that, if these are pingoes (still a big if), then we have them in various stages of their formation and decay. To me this suggests that they are still active features. Or the system shut down so suddenly that they have been preserved in a snapship fashion.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[silylene old]

I sense the beginning of a nice report on possible Martian pingoes! I hope you two can get this observation published.<br /><br />I learned more geology again today. Thank you Fran and Jon ! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[franontanaya]

Yes, the last one is an impact crater (or should). I picked it because the inner ground looks bumped and has <br />the same stripped texture as the top of A, C and other similar features. It seems connected to the crater wall <br />and the right border shows concentric lines, visible in the full zoom. I wonder if an impact could artificially create <br />an ice lens from molten permafrost, or open a fracture to a subsuface aquifer... but now I'm definitely walking on<br />slippery terrain.<br /><br />I'm curious too about E and B, whose well-defined pits have brighter material inside, while D doesn't.<br /><br />Re: silylene<br />I'm not on geology neither, I'm just a Mars fan. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[bonzelite]

it would kind of make sense for a pingo formation in that mars is fraught with terrain softening of features, namely from craters that have begun to vanish in the perma-frost type of slurry that [allegedly] comprises much of the maritan surface. over time, this material aggregate, if you will, will literally begin to sink back into the slurry mixture. <br /><br />in this way, there is a lot of ice intermixed with regolith. perhaps even more than is thought. entire sheets of "regolith/ice" may be moving in a sort of tectonic-like manner on mars. <br /><br />

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">Having those pebbles does reinforce a possible airfall (or water fall) <br />origin for these sediments. What's the relation of this rock to Home plate?<font color="white"><br /><br />The image was taken near Homeplate. What’s your take on these layered <br />looking rocks at Victoria crater, see enlarged part of this image below. <br /><br />1P225388224EL5M1.5</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

I tried to open the largest image you provided from HIRISE and couldn't because<br />the file was so big, 700mb, and the size was to large 50,000 pixel, I am looking <br />for a plug-in for this in adobe CS - I got to see this stuff up close and personal <br />MRO has such great detail....<br /><br />____________________________________________________<br /><br />Enlarged image from the image above.<br /><br />1P225388224EL5M1.55 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<i>Yes, the last one is an impact crater (or should). I picked it because the inner ground looks bumped and has<br />the same stripped texture as the top of A, C and other similar features. It seems connected to the crater wall<br />and the right border shows concentric lines, visible in the full zoom. I wonder if an impact could artificially create<br />an ice lens from molten permafrost, or open a fracture to a subsuface aquifer... but now I'm definitely walking on<br />slippery terrain.</i><br /><br />As bonzelite mentions in a subsequent post, much of the high latitudes of Mars appear to have undergone "terrain softening", suggestiing nearsurface rebolisation of ice. I agree.<br /><br /><i>I'm curious too about E and B, whose well-defined pits have brighter material inside, while D doesn't. </i><br /><br />Exposed ice perhaps? But we can't rule out simple brigtening by fortuitous surface angles.<br /><br />Jon<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<i>The image was taken near Homeplate. </i><br /><br />Thanks. Remember the "bomb" that was seen on the other side of home plate? <br /><br /><i>What’s your take on these layered looking rocks at Victoria crater, see enlarged part of this image below.</i><br /><br />It looks like very large scale cross bedding. Aeolian perhaps, although you do get such features in river sediments too.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

Thanks<br /><br />1P225489822EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[abq_farside]

RE: 1P225388224EL5M1.5 <br /><br />Notice the "ramp-like" structure that appears to be leading into the crater at the top of the image? It is probably just an illusion and is most likely just the edge of the crater, but from this angle, it does look like a ramp! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em><font size="1" color="#000080">Don't let who you are keep you from becoming who you want to be!</font></em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

The "ramp" is actually the op of a spur between two bays. A slight craterward slope on the top of the spur makes it look like a ramp.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[abq_farside]

After studying it some more, that is kind of what I figured. Just the angle of the image made the illusion look interesting. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em><font size="1" color="#000080">Don't let who you are keep you from becoming who you want to be!</font></em></p> </div>

 

[llad]

Heh ... my first impression was that it looked like a road built by a Martian engineering firm during the Victorian era. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[JonClarke]

Vicitorian era indeed. Groan! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[brellis]

LOL @ "Victorian Era". I don't know if I have the "Endurance" to withstand that humor <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /><br /><br />In this NASA report on Martian clouds there are two excerpts that grabbed my attention, and bring back a cupla questions.<br /><br /><font color="orange">NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity captured a view of wispy afternoon clouds, not unlike fair weather clouds on Earth, passing overhead on the rover's 956th sol, or Martian day (Oct. 2, 2006). With Opportunity facing northeast, the clouds appear to drift gently toward the west in this movie taken with the rover's navigation camera.<br /><b>The 10 frames, taken 32 seconds apart</b>, show the formation and evolution of what are likely mid-level, convective water clouds. Such clouds are common near Mars' equator at this time of the Martian year. They have been observed by both of NASA's Mars Exploration Rovers, by <b>satellites orbiting Mars</b>, and by the Hubble Space Telescope.<br /><br />...both rovers now have the ability to <b>autonomously detect clouds</b>...</font><br /><br /><br />I wonder, to what extent can these software upgrades be translated and uploaded to MRO and Odyssey? To what extent can the satellites and the rovers 'share' observations on a moment-by-moment basis?<br /><br />For instance, let's say Odyssey spots turbulence, clouds or a dust storm heading toward a rover's locale. The rover could get a ping from Odyssey that warns it to stop rolling and look for dust devils or clouds. <br /><br />Does anyone know how fast the orbiters can click their cameras? Can Mission Control tell MRO to take several pics during one pass over a site recognized to be recently active? Imagine having a 10-frame "movie" of an outflow!<br /><br />As the orbiters are accomplishing systematic mapping of the entire planet, can they get smarter as they go? Is it possible for the crafts thems <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[vandivx]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br />I tried to open the largest image you provided from HIRISE and couldn't because<br />the file was so big, 700mb, and the size was to large 50,000 pixel, I am looking<br />for a plug-in for this in adobe CS - I got to see this stuff up close and personal<br />MRO has such great detail....<br /><br />_________________________________________<br />Enlarged image from the image above.<br /><br />1P225388224EL5M1.55<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />how much RAM you have on your machine, just curius<br /><br />those loose ribbed rocks are sedimentary rocks if I have seen one, in fact all rocks in that picture are sedimentary<br /><br />question is though if you can get such sediments in dry conditions, simply by dust accumulating and settling over aeons<br /><br />if I was to bet my money, I'd say there was definitely ocean rolling about on Mars at some point in time, just my two cents<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">Notice the "ramp-like" structure that appears to be leading into the <br />crater at the top of the image?<font color="white"><br /><br />This might help visualize it.</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">how much RAM you have on your machine, just curius<font color="white"><br /><br />1 Gig. <br /><br />1P225490189EL5M1</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[abq_farside]

It sure does - kind of figured it was like that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em><font size="1" color="#000080">Don't let who you are keep you from becoming who you want to be!</font></em></p> </div>

 

[vandivx]

1GB is too little, 2GB is normal amount these days IMO and for <br />people working with images like these you should have much more<br /><br />I wonder why are those exposed rocks so broken up, even large <br />ones have big cracks splitting them, that's some big erosion <br />there, the undersoil must be giving away sliding down the <br />slopes and soon these rocky promontories will fall down and <br />expose new fresh rock, same as this got exposed, the 'crater' or <br />what is is must have gotten much bigger over time by such <br />erosion<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[brellis]

<font color="yellow">1GB is too little, 2GB is normal amount these days IMO and for<br />people working with images like these you should have much more </font><br /><br />For all the great views rlb2's been digging out of the raw data, we should pool our resources and send him some RAM! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[vandivx]

yeah, its not just slower if you don't have enough memory<br /> (writing to virtual memory on HD) but you simply won't be able<br /> to open the raw humungous pictures over certain size, it <br />normally requires several times the amount of RAM to open a<br /> picture in a program over the space that it takes on a disk<br /><br /><br />I just opened a 17KB pic and it takes 382KB footprint in RAM,<br /> once I tried to open bitmap picture many hundred MB in size<br /> and that was when I learned the limits of computer and why <br />people have many gigabytes of RAM, its not just about speed<br /> but being able to open a pic in the first place<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rlb2]

Thanks for the advice, with MRO it looks like I have another good reason to upgrade...<br /><br />1P226541816EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">Martian caves have long been considered the best potential havens <br />for life, since they would be sheltered from the harsh radiation hitting <br />the surface, as well as wild temperature shifts and brutal dust storms. The <br />researchers acknowledge in their paper that they're talking about something of <br />more than academic interest:<br /><br />"Besides general geological interest, there is a strong motivation to find <br />and explore Martian caves to determine what advantages these structure may <br />provide future explorers. <br />Furthermore, Martian caves are of great interest for their biological possibilities <br />because they may have provided habitat for past (or even current) life.<br />"Preserved evidence of past or present life on Mars might only be found in caves, <br />and such a discovery would be of unparalleled <br /><br />Martian caves have long been considered the best potential havens for life, since <br />they would be sheltered from the harsh radiation hitting the surface, as well as <br />wild temperature shifts and brutal dust storms. The researchers acknowledge <br />in their paper that <br />they're talking about something of more than academic interest:<br /><br /><br />That area is prone to geological phenomena known as collapse pits, in <br />which surface material falls into a depression or subsurface void that is generally <br />created by seismic activity. Chains of such pits have been spotted on Mars <br />many times before. But the researchers say these seven dark features are different, <br />because they don't appear to have sunlit walls or floors. They say the features <br />don't look like impact craters, because there aren't any raised rims or blast patterns. <br />And they say that the way the black spots retain heat appears to rule out <br />the idea that they're merely surface features of a different color.<br /><br />Putting all this together, the research team concludes that the seven black <br />spots are actually "skyli</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>