Is dark matter just gravity from adjacent universes overlapping into ours?

[ZenDraken]

<p><font size="2">This is my first post and I wasn't sure where best to put it (Ask the Astronomer?&nbsp; Physics?&nbsp; <span style="font-style:italic">The Unexplained!</span>), but this idea keeps buzzing around in my brain and I wanted to get some feedback.&nbsp; Apologies in advance if I mess up the formatting, spelling or whatever else.<br /></font></p><p><font size="2"><br />A Quantum Multi-Universe Interpretation of Dark Matter:<br /><br />Dark matter is really just the gravity of adjacent universes overlapping into our universe.&nbsp; All the multiple universes are superimposed on each other, but separated along a higher dimension.&nbsp; Since adjacent universes are different from ours to varying degrees, the galaxies in them are all in slightly different locations compared to this universe.&nbsp; The result is overlapping gravitational fields that are "smeared out" and appear to us as big blobs of hidden mass associated with clusters of galaxies.<br /><br />Assumptions:<br /><br />1. The many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics applies.<br />2. The other universes branching away to fulfill each quantum possibility physically diverge along a higher dimension.&nbsp; Perhaps it is the 5th dimension, assuming time is the 4th.<br />3. The farther back in time that a universe diverged from us, the farther away it has diverged from us along that dimension.<br />4. Gravity can "leak out" of each universe along that higher dimension.<br />5. There is some inverse scaling law for gravity across the higher dimension.&nbsp; Perhaps it is the same inverse square law that applies in these 3 dimensions.&nbsp; In any case, gravitational strength declines with distance across the dimension separating the multiple universes.<br /><br />Adjacent universes aren't "over there" somewhere, they are all right here.&nbsp; All the universes are superimposed on top of each other, but separated by the higher dimension.&nbsp; The "dark matter" we see in a galactic cluster is actually the myriad gravitational ghosts of that same cluster in other universes.<br /><br /><br />More thoughts:<br />-We will not find any exotic dark matter particles, it's just gravity.<br />-Gravity must extend very weakly across the higher dimension, so it requires the sum of mass of an enormous number of other universes to even be able to see the effect.&nbsp; Or perhaps the other universes are just really far away along that dimension.<br />-The "smearing out" of the overlapping mass is why the effect only becomes noticeable over large volumes in our universe.<br />-The Pioneer anomaly may be the most local manifestation of this effect that we can detect. </font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font size="2">I don't have the time, knowledge, or math to figure out if this is just a silly idea, and I have no clue if this has already been proposed and proven wrong, so I'm throwing this out to any and all *rational* critiques.</font><br />&nbsp;</p><p><font size="2">Your thoughts?<br /><br /><br /></font></p>

 

[weeman]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This is my first post and I wasn't sure where best to put it (Ask the Astronomer?&nbsp; Physics?&nbsp; The Unexplained!), but this idea keeps buzzing around in my brain and I wanted to get some feedback.&nbsp; Apologies in advance if I mess up the formatting, spelling or whatever else.A Quantum Multi-Universe Interpretation of Dark Matterark matter is really just the gravity of adjacent universes overlapping into our universe.&nbsp; All the multiple universes are superimposed on each other, but separated along a higher dimension.&nbsp; Since adjacent universes are different from ours to varying degrees, the galaxies in them are all in slightly different locations compared to this universe.&nbsp; The result is overlapping gravitational fields that are "smeared out" and appear to us as big blobs of hidden mass associated with clusters of galaxies.Assumptions:1. The many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics applies.2. The other universes branching away to fulfill each quantum possibility physically diverge along a higher dimension.&nbsp; Perhaps it is the 5th dimension, assuming time is the 4th.3. The farther back in time that a universe diverged from us, the farther away it has diverged from us along that dimension.4. Gravity can "leak out" of each universe along that higher dimension.5. There is some inverse scaling law for gravity across the higher dimension.&nbsp; Perhaps it is the same inverse square law that applies in these 3 dimensions.&nbsp; In any case, gravitational strength declines with distance across the dimension separating the multiple universes.Adjacent universes aren't "over there" somewhere, they are all right here.&nbsp; All the universes are superimposed on top of each other, but separated by the higher dimension.&nbsp; The "dark matter" we see in a galactic cluster is actually the myriad gravitational ghosts of that same cluster in other universes.More thoughts:-We will not find any exotic dark matter particles, it's just gravity.-Gravity must extend very weakly across the higher dimension, so it requires the sum of mass of an enormous number of other universes to even be able to see the effect.&nbsp; Or perhaps the other universes are just really far away along that dimension.-The "smearing out" of the overlapping mass is why the effect only becomes noticeable over large volumes in our universe.-The Pioneer anomaly may be the most local manifestation of this effect that we can detect. &nbsp;I don't have the time, knowledge, or math to figure out if this is just a silly idea, and I have no clue if this has already been proposed and proven wrong, so I'm throwing this out to any and all *rational* critiques.&nbsp;Your thoughts? <br />Posted by ZenDraken</DIV><br /><br />Here's how I understand it: Many theoretical physicists, in search for an answer as to why gravity is so weak, are speculating that it's due to the fact that gravity exists in multiple universes all at once, therefore meaning it leaks into our universe, and is otherwise very weak since it is spread out over these multiple universes. </p><p>Brane theory deals a&nbsp;lot&nbsp;with this. The theoretical physicists suggest that gravity exists in the higher dimensional universe of branes from which our big bang was&nbsp;created. So, as gravity&nbsp;leaks from that universe into&nbsp;ours, it is weakened because it doesn't actually exist in our universe. </p><p>As for your last statement, don't stress over not having the knowledge or math! This is very recent theory and is&nbsp;entirely all speculation. &nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Techies: We do it in the dark. </font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>"Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.</strong><strong>" -Albert Einstein </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Dark matter is really just the gravity of adjacent universes overlapping into our universe.&nbsp; All the multiple universes are superimposed on each other, but separated along a higher dimension. <br /> Posted by ZenDraken</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Sounds like you are describing Brane Theory.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>[Edit:&nbsp; Sorry Weeman.&nbsp; I thought I saw no mention of Brane Theory in your post, hence my mention of it.&nbsp; Don't know how I missed that (unless, of course you edited after the fact)]&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[DrRocket]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Here's how I understand it: Many theoretical physicists, in search for an answer as to why gravity is so weak, are speculating that it's due to the fact that gravity exists in multiple universes all at once, therefore meaning it leaks into our universe, and is otherwise very weak since it is spread out over these multiple universes. Brane theory deals a&nbsp;lot&nbsp;with this. The theoretical physicists suggest that gravity exists in the higher dimensional universe of branes from which our big bang was&nbsp;created. So, as gravity&nbsp;leaks from that universe into&nbsp;ours, it is weakened because it doesn't actually exist in our universe. As for your last statement, don't stress over not having the knowledge or math! This is very recent theory and is&nbsp;entirely all speculation. &nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by weeman</DIV></p><p>NOBODY understands all of the math for branes.&nbsp;&nbsp;That is a big problem.&nbsp; Witten et al have been unable to fully develop the necessary mathematics.&nbsp; They also have been unable to come up with any new, testable, predictions.&nbsp; It is speculation indeed.&nbsp; In fact, lacking any new physical predictions it is more mathematics than physics at this point.&nbsp; And the mathematics has proven extraordinarily difficult, so that the mathematical theory is not complete.</p><p>Maybe I have missed something, but so far as I know the higher dimensions for strings, branes, etc. are part of this universe.&nbsp;If they exist, we don't see them because they are small and rolled up at a very tiny scale.</p><p>Essentially by definition I think it is impossible for anything outside of the universe to affect the universe.&nbsp; if something affects the universe then it simply is part of&nbsp;the universe&nbsp;-- perhaps not part of the observable universe (that which&nbsp;is close enough for light signals to have reached us since the Big Bang).</p><p>This higher dimensional stuff is not like the description in comic books.&nbsp; It is not some place that is kinda like our little place but inhabited by spirits or something.&nbsp; A dimension is just a degree of freedom for some physical action.&nbsp; But if the universe has higher dimensions they are just part of the package.</p><p>If the string theorists have something, then the Big Bang was not created from branes, but rather the branes came into existence at the Big Bang.&nbsp; The Big Bang was created from anything.&nbsp; It is the theoretical starting place for space, time and everything else (if there is anything else).</p><p>That last comment was not as flip as it sounds.&nbsp; There has been speculation that one could build the universe out of space-time itself. basically geometry or even out of information.&nbsp;&nbsp; When you start talking about speculation on the edge of what is known (past the edge) it can be pretty strange.&nbsp; But, quantum theory and general relativity can be pretty weird too.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ZenDraken]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Here's how I understand it: Many theoretical physicists, in search for an answer as to why gravity is so weak, are speculating that it's due to the fact that gravity exists in multiple universes all at once, therefore meaning it leaks into our universe, and is otherwise very weak since it is spread out over these multiple universes. Brane theory deals a&nbsp;lot&nbsp;with this. The theoretical physicists suggest that gravity exists in the higher dimensional universe of branes from which our big bang was&nbsp;created. So, as gravity&nbsp;leaks from that universe into&nbsp;ours, it is weakened because it doesn't actually exist in our universe. As for your last statement, don't stress over not having the knowledge or math! This is very recent theory and is&nbsp;entirely all speculation. &nbsp;&nbsp; <br /> Posted by weeman</DIV></p><p>Thanks, and this brings up some more questions:</p><p>So *if* Brane theory is correct:</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -There really is no dark matter?&nbsp; <br />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -Could the Pioneer Effect then be a test of Brane theory?<br />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -If the LHC finds no dark matter particles, would that tend to support, or at least not disprove, Brane theory?<br />&nbsp;</p>

 

[ZenDraken]

<p>I see there are experiments going on looking for non-Newtonian gravity effects at short ranges:</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; http://flux.aps.org/meetings/YR04/APR04/baps/abs/S690.html</p><p>It's not clear that these are really tests for Brane theory, but they are linked from the Wikipedia entry on Brane theory.</p><p>But these experiments are only looking at really small scales, under 1mm.&nbsp; Seems to me that gravity leaking in from nearby universes would only be noticable on larger and larger scales, where you only start to see it with, for instance, the Pioneer probes, and it becomes much more obvious on a galactic-cluster scale. </p><p>The assumption being that the closest universes, having just split from ours, are almost exact copies of our own, becoming more different with increasing distance.&nbsp; The different quantum copies of the solar system all following slightly different paths would make their very weak overlapping gravity fields to appear fuzzed out to our perspective. </p>

 

[DrRocket]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thanks, and this brings up some more questions:So *if* Brane theory is correct:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -There really is no dark matter?&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -Could the Pioneer Effect then be a test of Brane theory?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -If the LHC finds no dark matter particles, would that tend to support, or at least not disprove, Brane theory?&nbsp; <br />Posted by ZenDraken</DIV></p><p>So far as I know "brane" theory is hung up trying to find a theory that is mathematically consistent with gravity (general relativity), quantum mechanics and itself.&nbsp;&nbsp;It is not well defined and includes several competing theories.&nbsp; I don't know if there is any prediction within those theories, as yet, with respect to the apparent acceleration of the expansion of the universe.&nbsp; If there were some prediction that was reflected in the Pioneer anomaly (if it really is an anomaly) then that might serve as an experimental test.&nbsp; However, so far as I know neither brane theory nor anay of the string theories has yet produced any new testable hypothesis.&nbsp; Those theories have produced more hype than physics.&nbsp; Some very fine mathematics relating to the structure of 4-manifolds has come from it, but no new testable physics.&nbsp; Until there is a new testable prediction it cannot be proved or disproved.&nbsp; In fact brane theory defies even clear definition as to what it really is.</p><p>If you are interested in this sort of question, I recommend Lee Smolin's books, The Trouble with Physics and Three Roads to Quantum Gravity.&nbsp; Brian Greene's The Elegant Universe is also highly recommended.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[pradipta]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This is my first post and I wasn't sure where best to put it (Ask the Astronomer?&nbsp; Physics?&nbsp; The Unexplained!), but this idea keeps buzzing around in my brain and I wanted to get some feedback.&nbsp; Apologies in advance if I mess up the formatting, spelling or whatever else.A Quantum Multi-Universe Interpretation of Dark Matterark matter is really just the gravity of adjacent universes overlapping into our universe.&nbsp; All the multiple universes are superimposed on each other, but separated along a higher dimension.&nbsp; Since adjacent universes are different from ours to varying degrees, the galaxies in them are all in slightly different locations compared to this universe.&nbsp; The result is overlapping gravitational fields that are "smeared out" and appear to us as big blobs of hidden mass associated with clusters of galaxies.Assumptions:1. The many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics applies.2. The other universes branching away to fulfill each quantum possibility physically diverge along a higher dimension.&nbsp; Perhaps it is the 5th dimension, assuming time is the 4th.3. The farther back in time that a universe diverged from us, the farther away it has diverged from us along that dimension.4. Gravity can "leak out" of each universe along that higher dimension.5. There is some inverse scaling law for gravity across the higher dimension.&nbsp; Perhaps it is the same inverse square law that applies in these 3 dimensions.&nbsp; In any case, gravitational strength declines with distance across the dimension separating the multiple universes.Adjacent universes aren't "over there" somewhere, they are all right here.&nbsp; All the universes are superimposed on top of each other, but separated by the higher dimension.&nbsp; The "dark matter" we see in a galactic cluster is actually the myriad gravitational ghosts of that same cluster in other universes.More thoughts:-We will not find any exotic dark matter particles, it's just gravity.-Gravity must extend very weakly across the higher dimension, so it requires the sum of mass of an enormous number of other universes to even be able to see the effect.&nbsp; Or perhaps the other universes are just really far away along that dimension.-The "smearing out" of the overlapping mass is why the effect only becomes noticeable over large volumes in our universe.-The Pioneer anomaly may be the most local manifestation of this effect that we can detect. &nbsp;I don't have the time, knowledge, or math to figure out if this is just a silly idea, and I have no clue if this has already been proposed and proven wrong, so I'm throwing this out to any and all *rational* critiques.&nbsp;Your thoughts? <br />Posted by ZenDraken</DIV> <span style="font-size:10pt;color:black;font-family:Verdana">Everything has a limited shape. Our universe has also a limited shape.</span><span style="font-size:10pt"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana">Since the ancestral time, world space research is progressing on wrong concept<span>&nbsp; </span>because we unknown about space mirror which is a great mystery and creator of lots of mysteries viz. milk ways, galaxies, supernovas, nebulas, white dwarfs, black holes etc. Hence without study of space mirror the space research has no future.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana">&nbsp;</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana">It can not explain in short. Therefore it invites to visit http://www.spacemirrormystery.com to know the logic and original truth. <span>&nbsp;</span></span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>pradipta</p> </div>