Phoenix surface mission

[l3p3r]

<p>It seems not so strange that the latching mechanism would be a spring, rather that it would be designed to detach from the vehicle entirely... I hope we find out soon, curiosity will destroy me!</p><p>&nbsp;WHY did this mission have to arrive in the middle of my exams!?&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[shawneric]

<p>I took the object into photoshop and played around with it which was very interesting.</p><p>I really believe it is segmentated and hollow. I have a hard time&nbsp;believing it is ice that formed in a segmentation pattern like that really.</p><p>It does also look partly covered in soil. Also nothing in the picture of other material looks like it.</p><p>I have been into astronomy and rock hounding for a long time now over thrity years. I keep a skeptical outlook&nbsp;on things and highly believe in the scienctific method. But this is one odd object.</p><p>Isn't the spot they landed believed to be an ancient seabed?&nbsp;Maybe it is a possible crystal or rock formation of some sort as well, but it really looks man made or organically formed.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I took the object into photoshop and played around with it which was very interesting.I really believe it is segmentated and hollow. I have a hard time&nbsp;believing it is ice that formed in a segmentation pattern like that really.It does also look partly covered in soil. Also nothing in the picture of other material looks like it.I have been into astronomy and rock hounding for a long time now over thrity years. I keep a skeptical outlook&nbsp;on things and highly believe in the scienctific method. But this is one odd object.Isn't the spot they landed believed to be an ancient seabed?&nbsp;Maybe it is a possible crystal or rock formation of some sort as well, but it really looks man made or organically formed.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /> Posted by shawneric</DIV></p><p>I see it as being partially covered, too.&nbsp; This leads me to believe it was there prior to landing.&nbsp; I certainly won't rule out a spring from the Phoenix, but I tend to think it was there prior.&nbsp; What it is?&nbsp; No clue.&nbsp; I have no doubt, however, that there is a logical, non-woo woo explanation for it. </p><p>In other words... It's not a snail shell <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>But what if it is <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif" border="0" alt="Tongue out" title="Tongue out" /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" />. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

<p><font color="#666699"><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I see it as being partially covered, too.&nbsp; This leads me to believe it was there prior to landing.&nbsp; Posted by derekmcd</DIV></font></p><p>The footpads are also partially covered with soil, yet they were not there prior to landing.&nbsp; It seems that the area is covered by a thin layer of soft, powdery material. That is evident in the tracks of the rolling/sliding rocks and the scoop's touch mark.&nbsp; An object falling from the lander could easily have partially embedded itself in the surface. &nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[shawneric]

<p>This is at 200% and small trying to keep the resolution.</p><p>http://www.webpotential.com/falcon/marsobject/</p>

 

[derekmcd]

Ok.&nbsp; I'm sold it's most likely a spring. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /><br /><br /><br />http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/080528-phoenix-arm-flex.html<br /><br /><em>"The first step of unstowing the arm, expected to occur this afternoon, involves moving the scoop towards the arm with the wrist joint, which will release a <strong>spring-loaded pin</strong> that kept the arm restrained during Phoenix's August launch and Sunday landing, Goldstein said."</em><br /><br />I still wouldn't mind some confirmation, though.&nbsp; Doesn't seem right that they would want it to fall off.&nbsp; But, alas... I'm no engineer. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[nimbus]

It's just a spring or other bit from the craft. It would have been mentionned by now, if it wasn't. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[efron_24]

<p>That does indeed look like parts of that ice evaporated away.. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[phaze]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It's just a spring or other bit from the craft. It would have been mentionned by now, if it wasn't. <br />Posted by nimbus</DIV><br /><br />So this image of a Martian under the soil with a really long straw isn't likely to be reality?&nbsp; Darn!

 

[Andrey992]

When are they going to start digging the soil? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Philotas]

In how many hours is the downlink? Is it shifted each day? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[efron_24]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>When are they going to start digging the soil? <br />Posted by A3ndrey992</DIV></p><p>31 may.. yesterday..</p><p>http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/news/phoenix-20080601.html<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>In how many hours is the downlink? Is it shifted each day? <br />Posted by Philotas</DIV><br /><br />Yes, the downlink and uplink occur an average of 40 minutes later each day (Sol vs Day), although it depends on the availability of the relay satellites, MRO or Odyssey. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#ff0000">Yes, the downlink and uplink occur an average of 40 minutes later each day (Sol vs Day), although it depends on the availability of the relay satellites, MRO or Odyssey. <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</font><font color="#000000"></DIV></font></p><p><strong><font size="2">Thanks Wayne,</font></strong></p><p><font color="#ff0000"><strong><font size="2" color="#000000">That's what I thought, owing to Mars's 37 minute longer sol than Earth's day. Every 35 sols, Mars completes one less rotation than Earth.</font></strong></font></p><p><font color="#ff0000"><strong><font size="2" color="#000000">So approx every 17 sols, Mars will be facing the other way with respect to Earth (sort of).</font></strong></font></p><p><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#000000">Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'></font>31 may.. yesterday..</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Posted by efron_24<font color="#000000"></DIV></font></font></p><p><font color="#ff0000"><font size="2" color="#000000"><strong>The scoop has already made the first impression on Sol 6, which was yesterday. 31/05/08.</strong></font></font></p><font color="#ff0000"><p><strong><font size="2" color="#000080">http://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/Scoop%20impression%20in%20soil%20sol%206%20Phoenix.html</font></strong><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/10/e34fbcac-41ac-45a3-9adf-591bfaa40d8e.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></p><p><strong><font size="2" color="#000000">Hopefully will will get some more imagery later to see what else has happened & hopefully some of the high resoluton panorama should be coming back also.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2" color="#000000">Andrew Brown.</font></strong>&nbsp;</p></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[Philotas]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yes, the downlink and uplink occur an average of 40 minutes later each day (Sol vs Day), although it depends on the availability of the relay satellites, MRO or Odyssey. <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV><br /><br />So, it's <em>delayed</em> each day; I wont bother to stay up for it tonight then. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /></p><p>&nbsp;Thanks ~</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<p>OK, I see it, it does look like a spring.&nbsp;Thanks for pointing this out.&nbsp;Whether it is or not is a different story.</p><p>I don't see why spring actuation&nbsp;should not be used on the lander, it is a simple, priven method.&nbsp; Just as the lander legs use coil springs!</p><p>Jon</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#3366ff">And it begins....</font> <br /><strong>Posted by jonclarke</strong></DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Jon, I apologise for my comment which resulted in the above observation.&nbsp; My suggestion of the 'shell-like' patterning was meant in jest and I expected it to be taken in such a spirit.&nbsp; I certainly have confidence in the general common-sense of contributors to this discussion that they would not put any store in such a 'sensationalist' conclusion.</p><p>That said, I tend to agree with recent opinion that it certainly looks like a common spring.&nbsp; It's had to imagine ice being thruster-blasted or melting in such a uniform pattern.&nbsp; It wouldn't take much for the so-called 'spring' to be partially buried during the impact of landing.&nbsp; Question is, what is it off?&nbsp; If it is part of thruster system then no harm-no foul, as they have completed their work.&nbsp; Could it be something to do with the helium venting after landing?&nbsp; I wouldn't be surprised if it is involved in spring-loading one of the arms though.&nbsp; You'd want to operate under the KISS principle where possible, given the location of this piece of hardware and the impossibilty of a service-call.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>SK&nbsp; <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/15/198ff90f-23d0-4e77-af2a-a9c80c881b88.Medium.gif" alt="" /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[dagas]

<p>why mars there where phoenix is have a thin layer of dust and a massive chunk of ice beneath?&nbsp; its weird... it looks like if a hard wind comes there it should blow that dust away and leave just the ice exposed... but thats not the case.</p>

 

[efron_24]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>why mars there where phoenix is have a thin layer of dust and a massive chunk of ice beneath?&nbsp; its weird... it looks like if a hard wind comes there it should blow that dust away and leave just the ice exposed... but thats not the case. <br />Posted by dagas</DIV></p><p>Wind that removes dust, also brings dust..</p><p>and I thought that ice&nbsp;exposed to the mars atmosphere in spring summer was not&nbsp;stable... even at -33 celcius, it would evaporate</p><p>I thought the dust would protect it&nbsp;a bit from evaporating. The Ice that is now clearly visual could dissapear over the coming weeks.</p><p><br /><br />&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[lucaspf]

I've been in the field over the weekend and it seems a lot has happened! That bright deposit under phoenix is pretty tantalizing! Glad to see the arm is in working order. Does anybody know when the first soil sample will be analyized? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[3488]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#ff0000">I've been in the field over the weekend and it seems a lot has happened! That bright deposit under phoenix is pretty tantalizing! Glad to see the arm is in working order. Does anybody know when the first soil sample will be analyized? <br />Posted by lucaspf</font></DIV></p><p><strong><font size="2">Hi Lucas,</font></strong></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Looks like the first dig has been made.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2" color="#000080"><strong>http://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/First%20dig%20Phoenix.html</strong></font><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/4/c9f885ab-a391-45e8-a4dd-c8ffadf7f4f1.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Trench from Robotic Arm Camera.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2" color="#000080"><strong>http://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/First%20dig%20RAC%20Phoenix.html</strong></font><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/9/87620aee-6bd0-4df9-b9b4-f94d2522e175.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></p><p><strong><font size="2">Scoop with soil in.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2" color="#000080">http://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/Scoop%20with%20soil%20RAC%20Phoenix.html</font></strong><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/7/73439d93-2df8-4445-b7dd-bcba8cb8f67e.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></p><p><strong><font size="2">Andrew Brown.</font></strong></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;Jon, I apologise for my comment which resulted in the above observation.&nbsp; My suggestion of the 'shell-like' patterning was meant in jest and I expected it to be taken in such a spirit.Posted by SpaceKiwi</DIV></p><p>So was mine!&nbsp; Sorry for the misunderstanding!&nbsp; I will check what the woo woo sites are saying....</p><p>regards </p><p>&nbsp;Jon<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[efron_24]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>So was mine!&nbsp; Sorry for the misunderstanding!&nbsp; I will check what the woo woo sites are saying....regards &nbsp;Jon <br />Posted by jonclarke</DIV><br /><br />if i am correct we finally get a NASA TV broadcast again tonight (Euro time 20.00h)</p><p>there will be a lot to learn from it !</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ThereIWas2]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Wind that removes dust, also brings dust.</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The smooth rounded and pitted appearance of the exposed ice suggests a series of melt-and-refreeze sequences over time, which would be consistent with being periodically uncovered.&nbsp; Here in New England we see a lot of that around March on our driveways. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif" border="0" alt="Undecided" title="Undecided" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>What is the melting and evaporation points of H2O and CO2 ice at a pressure of 6 millibars?&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><span class="postbody"><span style="font-style:italic"><br /></span></span></p> </div>

 

[bearack]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;Jon, I apologise for my comment which resulted in the above observation.&nbsp; My suggestion of the 'shell-like' patterning was meant in jest and I expected it to be taken in such a spirit.&nbsp; I certainly have confidence in the general common-sense of contributors to this discussion that they would not put any store in such a 'sensationalist' conclusion.That said, I tend to agree with recent opinion that it certainly looks like a common spring.&nbsp; It's had to imagine ice being thruster-blasted or melting in such a uniform pattern.&nbsp; It wouldn't take much for the so-called 'spring' to be partially buried during the impact of landing.&nbsp; Question is, what is it off?&nbsp; If it is part of thruster system then no harm-no foul, as they have completed their work.&nbsp; Could it be something to do with the helium venting after landing?&nbsp; I wouldn't be surprised if it is involved in spring-loading one of the arms though.&nbsp; You'd want to operate under the KISS principle where possible, given the location of this piece of hardware and the impossibilty of a service-call.&nbsp;SK&nbsp; <br />Posted by SpaceKiwi</DIV></p><p>I wonder if this might be part of some of the technical difficulties that has been reported by NASA?</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><br /><img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /></p> </div>