Phoenix surface mission

abq_farside · Jun 6, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Andrew, can you help explain this? Posted by bearack</DIV> I saw that and wondered too. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Don't let who you are keep you from becoming who you want to be! </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 6, 2008

Teleconference: http://www.nasa.gov/news/media/newsaudio/index.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

shawneric · Jun 6, 2008

The teleconfernce was fasinating. The science coming out of this is totally awesome.Update on "spring" thingNo one knows or will mention what it is yet. The spokesperson for Lockeheed and the spacecraft did not know what the object is and did not know if it was just something that was suppose to come off the lander when landing or something that just fell off? Sara at U of A still didn't know what the object is to report on?Sent images to Sky and Telescope as they have reporters at the briefings. I will let everyone know. Sure interesting no one yet as confirmed what it is, just that they have seen it as well.

MeteorWayne · Jun 6, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The teleconfernce was fasinating. The science coming out of this is totally awesome.Update on "spring" thingNo one knows or will mention what it is yet. The spokesperson for Lockeheed and the spacecraft did not know what the object is and did not know if it was just something that was suppose to come off the lander when landing or something that just fell off? Sara at U of A still didn't know what the object is to report on?Sent images to Sky and Telescope as they have reporters at the briefings. I will let everyone know. Sure interesting no one yet as confirmed what it is, just that they have seen it as well.     Posted by shawneric</DIV> Are you saying Sara made a staement about it?I did not hear that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

abq_farside · Jun 6, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The teleconfernce was fasinating. The science coming out of this is totally awesome.Update on "spring" thing No one knows or will mention what it is yet. The spokesperson for Lockeheed and the spacecraft did not know what the object is and did not know if it was just something that was suppose to come off the lander when landing or something that just fell off? Sara at U of A still didn't know what the object is to report on? Posted by shawneric</DIV> Seems like it would be fairly is easy to find out where it came from.  But maybe just not a very high priority for anybody yet. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Don't let who you are keep you from becoming who you want to be! </div>

bobw · Jun 6, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Seems like it would be fairly is easy to find out where it came from.  But maybe just not a very high priority for anybody yet. Posted by abq_farside</DIV>I have been searching like mad trying to find a diagram or something showing a possible spring loaded explosive bolt which held the arm down or something.  No luck with that yet but I did come across some really good pictures of Phoenix, the best I have seen so far.  One of them has a picture of springs that look pretty "suspicious"

lots of springs http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/14531.jpg picture of arm http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/14812.gif detail of scoop http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/14534.gif many great big pictures http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/PhoenixMarsLander/PhoenixMarsLanderGallery.html Sorry if these pictures have been referenced previously, I have missed a few of the posts.  Here's a cropped section from 14531.jpg. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/2/97cb7970-5ef3-4208-820e-3f166184f6e2.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="351" height="308" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

shawneric · Jun 6, 2008

The statement Sara made was to me on the phone, not in the press conference.

3488 · Jun 6, 2008

Soil scoop in colour Sol 11.<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/4/387593c8-13bb-4ed0-b4d0-d7b173a4a25e.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Dodo & Baby Bear Trenches. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/9/7ea60342-85ae-47f1-99f7-d0bf9aade4ab.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Soil in scoop poised above TEGA. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/4/1caaac21-271f-4785-b406-f8410494fc51.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 6, 2008

Weather report upto Sol 10. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/10/8626d035-3f2b-4175-8a7d-10cd6788866b.Medium.gif" alt="" />Weather Report for Sol 10. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/1/e05c1b13-e77b-4921-9128-4c854ea5be87.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Sol 10 Weather:Maximum Temperature: -25 C / -13 F. Sunny.Minimum Temperature: -82 C / -115.6 F. Sunny.Wind: 9 KPH from the South.Pressure: 8.45 millibars.Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

SpaceKiwi · Jun 6, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Seems like it would be fairly is easy to find out where it came from.  But maybe just not a very high priority for anybody yet. Posted by abq_farside</DIV> Yes, it's become far more interesting that no one on the mission team seems particularly keen to tidy up this loose end, than it is that there appears to be a spring lying in the dirt.  I guess they figure it's out of the way under the lander and everything's working (outside of the filament issue), so nothing to be concerned about. SK  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/1/8d15ce53-d7b9-4974-91b2-eb1b860246c9.Medium.gif" alt="" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Who is this superhero? Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Bring Back The Black! </div>

JonClarke · Jun 7, 2008

http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/06_06_pr.phpDoes anyone know how long it takes to run a sample through TEGA?Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

SpaceKiwi · Jun 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Does anyone know how long it takes to run a sample through TEGA?Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV> The link you provided indicates a few days to a week according to Dr Smith.  An individual heating cycle can be varied but I'm unsure how many cycles can/will be attempted for each sample and oven. (surely a few given the timeframe from Smith)  I found the following, which describes the basic operation :- "TEGA is similar to the instrument that originally was provided for the Mars Polar Lander mission of 1999, which failed during descent. It consists of eight small ovens, each of which can hold a 0.030 ml sample of Mars regolith. The samples will be delivered to the instrument via a robotic arm that digs or grinds the sample from the martian surface. The samples are heated at a programmed ramp rate (typically 5 to 20 K/min) up to 1000° C. As the sample is being heated, the required heat input is monitored to provide calorimeteric data on any phase transitions (This is the thermal analyzer). In addition, the evolved gases that are generated during the heating are analyzed with the evolved-gas analyzer (a magnetic sector mass spectrometer) to determine the composition of the gases released as a function of temperature."http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/sulfates2006/pdf/7065.pdfAdditionally, here's a link to a longer description of the Polar Lander TEGA, which I thought is the same as the one flown on Phoenix :-http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/polar98/pdf/3047.pdf SK  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/7/faf9e65b-aa06-4f77-87fc-ed314bda35e3.Medium.gif" alt="" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Who is this superhero? Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Bring Back The Black! </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/06_06_pr.phpDoes anyone know how long it takes to run a sample through TEGA?Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV> Jon, it's 4 days; but they may not be 4 continuous days, since there's lots of other tasks to do in between.Sample was taken from Baby Bear, just to the right of Dodo. Next sample for microscope will come from same trench so they are examining the same material that goes into TEGA.Commands have been approved to dump material into TEGA oven #1 (there are only 8).The oven is about the size of a pencil lead and about an inch (2.5 cm) long <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jun 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Jon, it's 4 days; but they may not be 4 continuous days, since there's lots of other tasks to do in between.Sample was taken from Baby Bear, just to the right of Dod. Next sample for microscope will come from same trrench so they are examining the same material that goes into TEGA.Commands have been approved to dump material into TEGA oven #1 (there are only 8).The oven is about the size of a pencil lead and about an inch (2.5 cm) long Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Hi Wayne, that's correct. Total time spent on samples in the TEGA is 4 sols. As you said, the TEGA will not be working on the samples 24 / 7 as Phoenix has other important tasks such as weather monitoring & the completion of the high resolution pan, also top priorities. AFAIK the TEGA has to warm up in stages so during each incremental rise, Phoenix could be doing some other important task. However it will not be many sols before we know for sure if it is ice or Magnesium Kierserite in the sample. So really not long now, till we know. It's getting very exciting.I assume Odyssey is back on after the safing event?Below is an interesting image.It is a high res shot of the horizon @ azm 281 degrees & clearly shows hills. These hill are not large enough to show on the lower resolution though still incredible initial 360 degree pan. When the whole thing is down, we will get a full flavour of the geology of the place. I can't wait.Hills on the horizon in the WNW. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/1/c10afc3c-7615-494d-b18d-0fcf26ca9487.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 7, 2008

Looks like some soil has missed TEGA & a little has dropped on to the Messages from Earth DVD.Not surpising as the scoop is large & is horizontal, where as the TEGA doors are narrow & vertical. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/11/7355ae13-33a6-4c3d-bbbc-d9c8ca8dfe2a.Medium.jpg" alt="" />I've had a go at enlargening & contrast enhancing the hills in the WNW.Very amatuerish really as compared to Anthmartian, rlb2 & Swampcat.It looks like that boulders are visible on the hills & a hint of some striations. It's a bit dusty so difficult to tell. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/12/56c996da-6161-488b-ac5b-1ebd80f5b2f7.Medium.jpg" alt="" />At the bottom centre of the frame is what looks like a small impact crater, complete with layering?????? Cant' wait to see more of the high res images come back.It's interesting to see how Phoenix is composed of spare components from other missions. The SSI is really a spare from Mars Pathfinder (has been uprated a bit, but sill essentally a clone of IMP Imager for Mars Pathfinder), the sampler arm & TEGA from the ill fated Mars Polar Lander. I guess that's why this mission did not cost a lot of money. Howver, its proving to be extremely effective. Very well done to all involved.http://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/WNW horizon Sol 12 Phoenix.htmlAndrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 7, 2008

Colour image of soil on deck of Phoenix. Sol 11. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/3/531cb27c-633d-494b-b3cb-aefcfed3024f.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Soil on top of TEGA. Sol 11. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/3/7f9c863e-05b0-492b-8342-7bae0f3a0823.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Just received the following:MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PASADENA, CALIF. 91109 TELEPHONE 818-354-5011 http://www.jpl.nasa.gov Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster@jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown@nasa.gov Sara Hammond  520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond@lpl.arizona.edu NEWS RELEASE: 2008-102                                         June 7, 2008   NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Checking Soil Properties TUCSON, Ariz. -- The arm of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander released a handful of clumpy Martian soil onto a screened opening of a laboratory instrument on the spacecraft Friday, but the instrument did not confirm that any of the sample passed through the screen. Engineers and scientists on the Phoenix team assembled at the University of Arizona are determining the best approach to get some of that material into the instrument. Meanwhile, the team has developed commands for the spacecraft to use cameras and the Robotic Arm on Saturday to study how strongly the soil from the top layer of the surface clings together into clumps. Images taken Friday show soil resting on the screen over an open sample-delivery door of Phoenix's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA, an instrument for identifying some key ingredients. The screen is designed to let through particles up to one-millimeter (0.04 inch) across while keeping out larger particles, in order to prevent clogging a funnel pathway to a tiny oven inside.  An infrared beam crossing the pathway checks whether particles are entering the instrument and breaking the beam. The researchers have not yet determined why none of the sample appears to have gotten past the screen, but they have begun proposing possibilities. "I think it's the cloddiness of the soil and not having enough fine granular material," said Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, the Phoenix team's science lead for Saturday and digging czar for the mission. "In the future, we may prepare the soil by pushing down on the surface with the arm before scooping up the material to break it up, then sprinkle a smaller amount over the door," he said. Another strategy under consideration is to use mechanical shakers inside the TEGA instrument differently than the five minutes of shaking that was part of the sample-receiving process on Friday. No activities for the instrument are planned for Saturday, while the team refines plans for diagnostic tests. Phoenix's planned activities for Saturday include horizontally extending a trench where the lander dug two practice scoops earlier this week, and taking additional images of a small pile of soil that was scooped up and dropped onto the surface during the second of those practice digs. "We are hoping to learn more about the soil's physical properties at this site," Arvidson said. "It may be more cohesive than what we have seen at earlier Mars landing sites." The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit:  http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix  and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. -end-Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 7, 2008

I've had a go @ enlargening suspected impact crater near the WNW horizon. <a href="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Forums/#" title="Click to view a larger photo" onclick="return gSiteLife.LoadForumPage('ForumImage', 'plckPhotoId', '0bbf0afd-7328-4655-b8a1-2e9feb857edb', 'plckRedirectUrl', gSiteLife.EscapeValue(window.location.href));"><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/8/0bbf0afd-7328-4655-b8a1-2e9feb857edb.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> </a>Also tallest 'hill' on WNW horizon.  <a href="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Forums/#" title="Click to view a larger photo" onclick="return gSiteLife.LoadForumPage('ForumImage', 'plckPhotoId', 'a3be5f87-cc48-4e29-b682-08164b3f3873', 'plckRedirectUrl', gSiteLife.EscapeValue(window.location.href));"><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/6/a3be5f87-cc48-4e29-b682-08164b3f3873.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></a>Andrew Brown.http://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/Hill WNW horizon Sol 12 Phoenix.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I've had a go @ enlargening suspected impact crater near the WNW horizon.Posted by 3488</DIV> Just wondering if you're overprocessing a few wayward bits? Time will tell! <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

freya · Jun 7, 2008

May be a problem with sample delivery. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

JonClarke · Jun 8, 2008

The aperture of the experiments is so small, 1 mm, that the tiniest oversize fragment will clog them.  The trouble is that many soils are composed of aggregates of grains that exceed 1 mm, and even whole grains.  Just look at your garden soil to see this.  Try passing e soil through a kitchen sieve (which is roughly 1 mm) and you will see the problem.  Any soils, ices or moisture - all of which Phornix might find, and probably has found, will make the problem worse.Using the scoop to "crush" the sample is aa work round, but it seems clumsy.  Ideally there should have been a small crusher, I can't remember if there was one with Viking.Jon  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

wubblie · Jun 8, 2008

Wow, 1mm. I was never really sure about the common sense in making these ovens so small, but that mesh size seems even worse. Even the electrostatic attraction between soil grains could cause them to clump up, and/or the electrostatic attraction between the grains and mesh may cause the grains to just "sit" on top of the mesh (especially plausible at 1/3 g). It doesn't look as though Viking passed the soil through a mesh, at least in this NASA schematic (courtesy of NASA).   <img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Neal/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-3.jpg" alt="" /><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Neal/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-4.jpg" alt="" /> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/0/637e587f-1825-4d79-a054-9a8eaf2c7665.Medium.png" alt="" width="225" height="240" />

JonClarke · Jun 8, 2008

Unmanned space missions are all about limited resources, specifically volume, mass and power.  Phoenix is worse of than Viking in this regard, being as much smaller lander (348 vs 572 kg) Everything has to be miniaturised, just to make it on board.  So far few (if any) missions have had  experiments suffer overtly because of this (as far as I know), although the limited sample size and number of repeats does mean that precision is lower than it could be. But maybe this time we have been caught out.  Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Unmanned space missions are all about limited resources, specifically volume, mass and power.  Phoenix is worse of than Viking in this regard, being as much smaller lander (348 vs 572 kg) Everything has to be miniaturised, just to make it on board.  So far few (if any) missions have had  experiments suffer overtly because of this (as far as I know), although the limited sample size and number of repeats does mean that precision is lower than it could be. But maybe this time we have been caught out.  Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV> If I was betting, they'll find away around the problem Spacecraft science is all about overcoming difficulties, IMHO <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jun 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Just wondering if you're overprocessing a few wayward bits? Time will tell!Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Could well be my friend. I saw what appears to be a small circular depression with layering near the WNW horizon. So you know me, I had to crop it out, enlarge it, etc. We will know for sure when the full product for that scene is released officially. I find the martian landscapes fascinating, we have not had a boring one yet, with any of the six successful landers to date. Mind you I find any planetary body landscape fascinating.Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If I was betting, they'll find away around the problem Spacecraft science is all about overcoming difficulties, IMHO Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>I agree completely. NASA have overcome far more difficult problems with effective solutions, such as the loss of the Jupiter Galileo High Gain Antenna, that was far more difficult to solve than the soil samples getting through the mesh of TEGA on Phoenix IMO. This will be solved, I have absolutely no doubts, it will just require a bit of thought & some trial & error. I wonder if the soil is more heavily compacted, due to the weight of the Winter CO2 ice pressing on it?Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> I wonder if the soil is more heavily compacted, due to the weight of the Winter CO2 ice pressing on it?Andrew Brown. Posted by 3488</DIV> Interesting idea, Andrew. Cheers! and good morning/afternoon.<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

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