POLL - The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

[dryson]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

With the Universe being infinite where only our technology limits our ability to see a finite Universe, there would be intelligent lifeforms in the Universe. These intelligent lifeforms ,when they discovered Earth and humanity, would want to do experiments upon humans to see how alike or different that they were from humans. In order to accomplish their medical experiments they would need to abduct humans without being caught. If the NSE's were caught they would then have experiment's done on them by us to figure out what they were and if we found their technology we then might be able to reverse engineer their technology to find out where their planet was, which would be a security threat.

So yes places like Nome Alaska would be perfect for abductions to occur at. They would be secluded and not readily monitored.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

Science is amazing. However one thing Science fails to grasp, and cannot explain is our creation. We can look at a subspecies and analyze it top to bottom.

Science can do quite a bit in explaining how humans have come to be. Can it explain "Why?" No. Science leaves that up to other disciplines, for the most part. Well, you may get some physicists and cosmologists speaking to that. But, they're usually just interesting thoughts on various observer theories.

This is not a professional science forum, the questions are not either but, WHO cares ! THEY ARE VALID, in the mind of the author(s) participants etc. Who are you as a person a simple being to put them down. In this world, tolerance, apathy, consideration, and kindness is almost extinct.

Is this specifically addressed to me? If so, I don't believe I have put anyone down or have been intolerant here. If you can show me where I have, I will apologize for it if it is true.

Allow those you see as lessor, inferior, and whatever you choose to formulate in your mind to have this freedom. I fought in the Marine Corps, to allow others to have freedom of speech, to critique my opinion freely and disagree with my point of view without harm. We are a free society, and weapons we use do not always have to be physical in nature. If your a genius by your definition you can use mental and emotional insults are strong weapons. So be courteous.

Disagreeing with someone and giving valid reasons for that disagreement, whether or not those reasons are accepted, is freedom of speech as well, isn't it? All disagreements are not insults. If someone makes a claim and others point out what are errors (in their opinion) or have disagreements with it, isn't that a part of "discussion." Isn't learning comprised of such activities? If I said something highly improbable and used concepts that are misunderstood in order to rationalize it, I certainly would like to have someone point out my errors for me.

Sure, post an opinion. Give a personal view. But, if you run into the room and shout "I am Batman" and then jump out of the window, people are going to have questions. They may even disagree. They may even think such behavior is questionable. They're entitled to their opinions as well, right? Or, is it only the would-be Batman that should be allowed to speak? People have a right to share their experiences, their opinions and their ideas. However, that does not make all such experiences, opinions and ideas valid. It doesn't make them credible. It only makes them known.

........What good does it do to understand everything on this planet and have a phenomenal IQ,understanding of the way the world and matter work, if there wont be anyone around to teach or share with, if we wont even be here as a species? Grow your hearts and not just your mind. As bizarre as these stories seem to me, I have to accept them, for a fellow Human has felt the pain and in his mind, in his right, has felt something he cannot understand, and we cannot explain. - we are a sad kind when given power of any kind. JH.

[/quote]

I agree that knowledge without compassion is wrong. Simply speaking to a subject and belittling someone serves no great purpose. But, we're all human and we make mistakes. Sometimes, there's just so much frustration a person can take with a recalcitrant poster that feels it is safe to comment on the physical world and "reality" without paying attention to any of the rules that logic and the physical universe seem to require in order to establish rational thought.

A person who claims they have been abducted by aliens MIGHT be telling the truth - they could have been abducted. But, inevitably, it seems that the stories get more convoluted, more unbelievable and more incredible the more they are examined. At some point, a rational, logical, thinking person would be more inclined to believe that the subject may be suffering from more than just PTSD from an alien encounter. Not all abductees seem insane. But, quite a few (In my opinion) do not seem very stably connected with reality.

PS - Welcome to SDC!!

 

[mds2u]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

What I don't understand is this. These aliens are supposedly a very technologically advance group, by our standards. Why is it then, that in most of these obduction cases, the humans reproductive organs are the focus of so much attention?? Wouldn't you think that after a few exams, they would have gather the knowledge the were seeking and would not have to re-examine the genitals of practically every person who claims to have been obducted??? It's all in the mind.....we are the ones who are are so centered with sex.

 

[doublehelix]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

OT -

What I REALLY want to know is how the heck this thread got so many hits from registered users who voted...

That's a bunch of hits. It'd be worth figuring out.

One doesn't have to be registered to VOTE in the poll, but you must be registered to comment.

-dh

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

OT -

What I REALLY want to know is how the heck this thread got so many hits from registered users who voted...

That's a bunch of hits. It'd be worth figuring out.

One doesn't have to be registered to VOTE in the poll, but you must be registered to comment.

-dh

AH! Well then, I get it now.

(edit - Still.. a nice number of responses and fairly new posters.)

 

[brandbll]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

So, when I was a kid I loved watching Project UFO on TV, which was based on Project Blue Book (my brother and I especially liked the whole "Ezekiel's Wheel" bit in the opening credits). The other day, my boyfriend and I were talking about Close Encounters, trying to figure out what the different "kinds" are. Turns out in 1972, a scale of measurement was established for alien encounters:

• When a UFO is sighted, it is called an encounter of the first kind.
• When evidence is collected, it is known as an encounter of the second kind.
• When contact is made with extraterrestrials, it is the third kind.
• Abduction, is the fourth kind. This encounter has been the most difficult to document, obviously.

Apparently, the new movie, The Fourth Kind, talks about, well, the fourth kind! Alien abductions in (the middle of nowhere) Nome, Alaska, where since the 60s, a disproportionate number of the population has been reported missing every year.

The movie stars Milla Jovovich, playing a psychologist who videotapes sessions with traumatized patients and in process discovers some crazy disturbing evidence of alien abduction. Kind of like District 9, they mix archival footage and original dramatic footage, and the movie showcases revelations of multiple witnesses. Their accounts of being visited by alien figures are freakily similar, the validity of which is investigated throughout the film.

I am pretty interested in seeing this film - love Milla Jovovich (I especially liked her in The Fifth Element and then Zoolander), and the alien thing is definitely a hook for me. I've never met anyone abducted or anything, but it is intriguing.

-dh

I already posted a thread about this movie, and the whole thing is a joke and some what offensive if you look at it from the victims families perspective. This Abigail whatever her name is, is not real. These cases are not real. Yes, many people dissappeared in Nome, Alaska; but its due to an Alcoholism problem in one of the few wet harbor cities in Alaska. Here's a site that sums up the whole movie:

http://community.adn.com/adn/node/143292


It's a freaking ruse. I was really hyped about this movie when i first saw the preview. So i thought, "maybe i'll look into some of these 'real life cases'." Well i looked into them only to find the whole thing is a bunch of made up Hollywood BS. I hate it when movies say," Based on real events" when in fact they are hardly base on anything real at all. It'd be like Peter Jackson posting a "Based on Real Events" before his District 9movie simply because the movie takes place in South Africa where they use to force native people into "Homeland" tent cities where conditions were comparable of where the aliens lived in District 9.

Oh and another thing, i think its pretty sad that they muddy up a town like Nome, Alaska with their movie only to go half way across the world to film it in some town in Bulgaria, at the same time spending probably millions of dollars in that town boosting its economy meanwhile Nome reaps none of the benefits while taking a PR beating.

 

[netdragon]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

Since I gave my personal experience, I'll now discuss science. Most arguments against ETs being here are not valid scientifically:....

Uh... All of your counter-arguments rely on unverifiable assumptions. How does that make them any more "scientific?"

They were meant to show weaknesses versus being scientific statements. The fact we don't know is we don't have any truly refutable peer-testable ways to ascertain the presence of ETs is really the only true scientific statement that can be made. Everything else is opinion, which is fine as long as it's not framed as fast. Using the sleep paralysis research as some type of argument is the best example of this since we don't know enough about cognition and the nature of reality to say whether or not what someone experiences in that state is real. Skepticism doesn't equal science. By the way, many or all of my statements can be refuted scientifically someday, just not with our current level of understanding. Not being currently testable doesn't make a statement irrefutable. If it did, general relativity would have been thrown out immediately as nothing but philosophy. All that's required is to be able to envision an experiment with a control, following proper scientific method.

I'll also note that some of the arguments you quote against ETI visitation are, indeed, a bit shabby. But, at least they're trying to speak to knowledge we already possess.

First off, I would argue that many arguments don't put into consideration much of the latest science. For instance, deterministic statements talking about time as linear, etc, are contentious. Then even there, our level of understanding is extremely inadequate for some of these tough questions. It's like using the argument that the world looks "flat" to say it isn't round, or that the sun seems to orbit the earth as an argument we are in the center of the universe. We don't know much and even more dangerous is the fact that we don't even know a lot of what we don't know.

Therefore, I would argue that they are far overreaching because our level of scientific understanding of cognition, space travel, and the universe is too incomplete for their statements to be much more above opinion or philosophy. If trying to frame the statement as scientific, based on inadequate knowledge, then it's misleading. They should frame it as philosophical. Furthermore, not only do they overreach based on our inadequate knowledge, but they also probably don't even consider some of the implications of quantum mechanics and string theory. As long as they frame what they say as opinion, I have no issues. A good parlor room discussion? Sure.

There is one valid argument at the moment: We have no proof that alien ETIs exist.

Yes, you're right. That's exactly my main point. Just to be as scientific as possible, I would actually rephrase it to talk about refutability rather than proof.



mds2u: Heh, perhaps they think our women are hot (just kidding). I agree our whole society is centered around sex though in my opinion, it is centered around the repression of sexuality and harnessing the tension caused for productive purposes versus actually being centered around sex in a healthy way. Probably a different discussion though. I have personally been on an ET ship and never had my genitals examined. Perhaps the problem was I wasn't female? (of course I'm just kidding ;-) ). I actually have a hard time believing the ones I met do that to other people and they definitely denied it. There are many possible explanations for those memories: (1) They were really tested on by ETs (2) The government tested and injected false memories with the help of truth serum and hypnotism (2) People had visitations that were pleasant experiences but fear caused them to remember other experiences. (3) Hallucinations and such.


Gerrit_smit_br: If the first question were "Scientifically, we know that people are visited", I agree that totals should be 0. However, the question was phrased in more of an opinion-based format. Since I experienced going aboard a ship myself, after stepping out of my car, then I chose "I know they are" since at least my experience was real to me just as you know what color your hair is (assuming that's not a hallucination). I don't need to prove it to vote for that option. Note that I wouldn't call what happened to me an abduction since I was both consciously and subconsciously open to the idea of meeting with ETs and in fact I had communicated with them in the past. However, that was the closest choice to my views.

netdragon (i think that was your handle) and others - if you are into this stuff i cannot recommend DMT: The Spirit Molecule by the aforementioned Dr. Strassman any higher. it describes the first U.S. gov't sanctioned psychedelic research in this country in 20-odd years. fascinating stuff, when the compound is administered, the 'trip' reports all contain imagery that is strikingly related to encounters with omniscient alien, demi-godlike presences. see excerpt below from wiki:

Not sure why you don't recommend it (or did you mean "can recommend"). I'm always open to debate (when I feel like it). I'd probably find so many holes in the logic in the book that I could write my own book about the holes in the logic.

For now, that research is simply just inconclusive. As mentioned before regarding sleep paralysis, we cannot make assumptions that the experiences are not real simply because a specific altered state of consciousness was brought on by a hallucinogen. What if instead of seeing things people were able to move objects through the air because of the drug? Would the interpretation of the results have been different then? So why are people so quick to discount things that others in that state don't see as unreal? A valid interpretation is that "drugs cause a similar state to some accounts of abduction". However, a writer without an agenda should also add, "This doesn't say whether or not the experiences are real, it's just interesting". Then it ends there, for now, until we can truly test what consciousness is.

Science has not yet succeeded to grasp an understanding of what reality truly is or isn't and doesn't understand consciousness. Ontological discussions and the mind/body problem are philosophical pursuits right now simply because science has not yet reached the maturity it can tackle these questions. I think quantum mechanics could be a step in the right direction, since it has pretty much been the death knell for determinism (physical state transitions are probabilistic, not deterministic) and also will allow us to test whether the brain is in fact a quantum computer. We still need to be able to quantitate consciousness somehow to be able to answer whether the brain has enough "stuff" to explain our intelligence. Quantum mechanics may also lead us in the right direction for understanding reality. However, saying that observations/measurements appear to collapse states is a far cry from understanding how physicality was constructed (is it mind-constructed or just there, etc). We need to come up with experimental methods to look into this and we are probably missing some pieces necessary to do these kinds of experiments. Perhaps the pieces will fall into place someday.

 

[jim48]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

Author James Lynch chats about UFOs

Lynch: I don’t know why but that still amazes me! I will ask someone “Do you believe that UFOs are alien ships?” and very often this is what I get for a response: “Well, uh, no, not really, but I think that just from the mathematical probabilities there has to be intelligent life out there somewhere.” Fair enough. Then I ask “Do you think it is possible that UFOs are alien ships?” And I get: “Well, um, they could be. I mean just the mathematical probabilities, like I said.” And I say “So it would no longer be a UFO. It would be an alien ship.” And I get: “Well, no, it would still be a UFO. How do you know it’s an alien ship?” So I ask: “If the mathematical probabilities are high that advanced alien civilizations exist, then why rule out UFOs being alien ships?” And I get: “Because that doesn’t make any sense. Just because they’re out there doesn’t mean they’re coming here.” D’oh!!! So I make one last stab: “It’s not hard to connect the dots. High probabilities of advanced alien civilizations, weird, unexplained things seen in our skies for decades by credible people.” And I get: “Well, yeah. I mean there has to be life out there somewhere. Sure!” And I say “Thank you very much!”

Parkins: It sounds like you’ve had that discussion more than a few times.

Lynch: (wearily) If you only knew. In my opinion UFOs being alien craft is the logical extension to lots of life out there. Look at all of the probes we send around our own solar system and to land on other planets. A couple have made it out of the solar system, and our technology is primitive compared to that of an alien race that has overcome the time barrier. If we had that technology we’d be all over the galaxy as well. It’s in our nature. So many people will readily concede that there is intelligent life out in the galaxy and beyond, but link that to UFOs and they simply cannot make that leap of faith, regardless of the logic.

Parkins: Leap of faith. Like believing in God?

Lynch: That’s a valid analogy. Some people will believe in aliens before they’ll believe in God. It seems that most of us have the need to believe in something, a kind of universal constant, if you will, pun intended. There has to be more to the universe than just us. So there is God. Or aliens.

Parkins: Or both.

Lynch: Yup. I don’t see the two as being mutually exclusive. As I wrote in the book, 15 billion years after He did it, God is sitting on the other side of the Big Bang, occasionally peering at us through His telescope, and when we screw up badly that’s when we hear the thunderclaps, God’s of way of expressing his displeasure, the heavenly equivalent of D’oh!!!

 

[Ken_Forees_Forehead]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

netdragon - i edited to put "cannot recommend the book any higher" (no pun intended). i believe you'd find it enthralling, he's a medical doctor, not a phd, and the research was gov't funded. i believe this gives the work some extra legitimacy and if the mind is indeed a quantum computer as you describe, then the natural production/regulation of DMT in the brain would appear to play a major part in its functioning. i've had my own experience related to this discussion (not drug- induced i might add) and indeed as i "came to" i felt my ego-less "self" processing a million-billion questions and answers while hurtling in a eye-filled void, totally empty of emotion. it's an experience i'll never forget and has fundamentally changed me. i would call what i saw my god, it was (trying desperately not to over-dramatize here believe me) that profound. anyway, if nothing else, i'd call strassman's book a small signpost toward fundamental research into the nature of consciousness so i think it's worth checking out. whether these experiences are 'real' is moot at this point, yes, although i'll note that all the subjects commonly used the language "more real than real" when describing the (god i hate to use this word, so flippant) trip. don't want to get sidetracked here, but the commonalilty subjects experienced with meeting these entities - and their variety - was compelling and startling.

 

[cjd411]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

Intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is a mathematical certainty... but that intelligent life visiting earth is a mathematical impossibility...

 

[araxmas]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

Intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is a mathematical certainty... but that intelligent life visiting earth is a mathematical impossibility...

That doesn't make sense, I was always told that you can never be 100%, thus rather than a mathematical impossibility, its more of a mathematical improbability.

Anywho my opinion is that although possible it is very unlikely that aliens have abducted us.
Simply from the reason of technology. A species capable of traversing light-years to reach us (and thus likely go faster than light) might be capable of researching our planet from a distance, or if they do need samples It is reasonable that they wouldn't actually do it themselves, more like a small automated probe, more-so one that can perform the tasks on site rather than retrieval.
HOWEVER, I am not an alien so who am I to make assumptions about something I am not, nor know anything about.
They could very well of abducted people, in fact everyone could be an alien made robot except me and the whole earth is one big elaborate alien experiment to test me. Making opinions and assumptions about most subjects relating to extra-terrestrials will always have a degree of bias and misinformation.

The only 'correct' answer that can be given to the question is "It's possible" which is due to the "Can never be 100%".

 

[CosmosSagan1]

Someone way up there ^.....stated a quote from Carl Sagan " Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". However, Carl Sagan also said, "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". I, too saw some sort of alien type space craft when I was a teenager, and two of my friends saw the same thing. It was a sort of large, round ball that appeared to be on fire (almost like a ball of fire) and was hovering just about 6 feet above the ground in a small pasture just accross street from my house (out in the country in Tennessee). It was a very clear night, without a cloud in the sky and all the stars were shining very bright. And, no, I'm not trying to be a poet here! There was a slight hissing type sound coming from the craft. After about 1 minute, this fireball looking object/craft started rising up in the air rather slowly at first and then shot up in the sky at an extremely high rate of speed. The night was completely clear and I could see the craft against the night sky very clearly. It split into two fireballs and then into 3 as they all finally reached a faraway distance and faded away. I have no idea what this was, but I do know what it "was not". It "was not" anything that was from this planet, period. Now that everyone reading this thinks I'm a complete idiot, or space case, I'll move on with my comments.
The universe is constantly expanding, and in this universe are literally billions of galaxies which each consists of billions of stars. In other words, there are likely many, many more solar systems out there than we could even imagine, each with their own sun and orbital planets. Scientists have a general idea of how long our planet "Earth" has been around, but no idea of how long any of these other solar systems have been around, mainly because we don't have the technology to view and/or study them yet. So, you may ask, "What's the bottom line here"? Well, the answer to that is quite simple. We would be complete "fools" to think, for even one moment, that "we" are the only existing form of intelligent life in the universe and/or that simply because "we" do not have the technology to travel the universe that it's unlikely that any alien species would have this technology either. So, think about that for a moment...... Exactly how "stupidly rediculous" does that really sound? If we do not know how long another "galaxy" has been around, then how can we specify how much technology any intelligent life on a planet within that galaxy might have? I think the only way that the human race will ever start looking at the universe with their "eyes open", and give in to the likelihood of life on other planets (in other galaxies) is when they finally realize that this universe we all live in was not created "only for us". One would be awful self-centered to think that.
Now, for the scientific argument everyone is waiting on... Well, the fact is that some people either "believe" that they were abducted by aliens, while others may be simply making up stories to get attention or some sort of publicity. A very smart scientists once asked a student if they believed in intelligent life somewhere else in the universe. The student answered, " I do not believe in intelligent life anywhere else in the universe siimply because if they did exist, they would have visited us by now". The scientists replied, "I do believe in intelligent life elsewhere in the universe and for the same reason". I can assure you it is there. Have they abducted anyone? I have no clue, nor can it be proven either way. So, where's the argument? Well, there really is none!

 

[okeechobeeman]

I was abducted while I was exploring the deserts of Arizona. When I woke up I was sitting in a little cafe with a tortilla in one hand and a cerbeza on the other. I found out later that I was south of the border, in Tijuana! My god, they were aliens alright, and illegal, too.

No, I don't believe in space alien abductions. Nothing will survive the million lightyear travel from one star system to another, not even alien robots. If they did survive, I think they will say "hello" and not hide and abduct earthlings for some grissly experiments. Don't you think they will be very glad to see creatures like us who are capable of conversation after millions of years boxed in their spaceships?

 

[peterthesagafan]

The real question is do you accept the possibility that some UFOs represent spacecraft from other planets visiting the Earth? If you think this is an impossible proposition then, end of story.... abductions are just a product of the imagination. If on the other hand, you contemplate that UFOs may indeed be visitors from other star systems then abductions are very likely caused by these visitors.

If UFOs are extraterrestrial indeed, this information would be instantly classified. Why? It would be extremely politically destabilizing and would represent the highest level of technology known to mankind. This would overrule the importance of mankind's discovery regarding "are we alone?" It would be in the government's interest to classify the information to the highest possible level.

The government's actions regarding UFOs has been an intriguing one to say the least. One of the explanation for the bizarre bahavior is that it is classified. There are numerous documents and memos dating to '50s where different branches of the military acknowledge that UFOs "are real" and are "interplanetary".

Many scientists disregard the phenomenon as the product of an undereducated populace (only 39% of Americans accept evolution). While many in our country are uneducated and ignorant, most of the solid UFO evidence come from astronauts, military personell, pilots and other people of impecable education credentials. Just imagine what a million years of technology looks like compared to 300 years of technology? Magic. Just compare our present technology to the technology of the 80s? Magic


If UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft visiting the Earth, is it really a stretch to consider the possiblity that they are taking people and study them over time.? Search Dr. Roger Leir on youtube. He is a doctor that has removed about 12 implants from people that said that these objects appeared in their bodies after experiencing "missing time" following UFO sightings. Intriguing....

 

[jimbo1smith]

I voted "No Way" because in the absence of verifiable proof, at the very least - seeing is believing - and I've never seen anything I would associate with visitors from outer space. I've seen lights buzzing about in the night sky, but I have to assume that they are all airplanes.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Re: POLL: The Fourth Kind, Alien Abductions

...We don't know much and even more dangerous is the fact that we don't even know a lot of what we don't know...

While you're busy expounding upon what you believe we do not know, don't drop everything we do know by the wayside.

Not all human knowledge can be truly insubstantial or meaningless when compared to that of some hypothetical, yet-to-be-proven-to-exist intelligent, space-faring species.. can it? Or, does every hypothetical intelligent and space-faring species out there use a different set of natural laws and a different reality where our observations of the physical world are meaningless?

Surely, there must be some continuity in the Universe, some underlying set of principles that can be applied equally. If not, then the Universe is chaos and I'm not quite sure we'd even wish to be a part of it.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

....If UFOs are extraterrestrial indeed, this information would be instantly classified. Why? It would be extremely politically destabilizing and would represent the highest level of technology known to mankind. This would overrule the importance of mankind's discovery regarding "are we alone?" It would be in the government's interest to classify the information to the highest possible level. ..

That is assuming they "know" about it. You know, the government is a really efficient entity for running a collective organization of millions, even billions of people. It "works." But, the government is not some all-knowing, all-seeing diety. It is staffed by government workers. Usually, these are people with specializations that are so obscure they can't find sufficient work in the private sector or they're simply people who have no choice that would afford them the same job security. Projects are frequently carried out by those who have the singular qualification of being the lowest bidder. The ranks of the elite in government service are staffed by ticks who have successfully buried themselves in the flesh of Federal Funding to such an extent that it would cost more to remove them than to put up with their inefficiencies. Lastly, the government is frequently directed by people who's sole claim of suitability is that they were able to win a popularity contest on television.

THIS is the organization that MUST know the secrets of alien visitation if there are extraterrestrial craft flying around our skies and these are the people we would depend upon to keep it secret for years, decades or longer?

I admit, the government has the collective resources to discover certain things. But... I'm not going to be so quick to suggest they are particularly adept in certain areas.

If UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft visiting the Earth, is it really a stretch to consider the possiblity that they are taking people and study them over time.?

It's a stretch that they would need to do so in such claimed quantities or even at all. The practicality of such an effort makes no sense and only lends itself to being attributed to assumed "mysterious projects" by supposed alien species. Logic is logical and this "abduction" behavior doesn't form a logical train of behavior. I suppose they could be doing it for cultural, religious or philosophical pursuits that we'd have no way of making sense out of. But, assumptions are worth exactly the same as the credible effort that went into making them.

Search Dr. Roger Leir on youtube. He is a doctor that has removed about 12 implants from people that said that these objects appeared in their bodies after experiencing "missing time" following UFO sightings. Intriguing....

Only intriguing in that none of these objects can be shown to be evidence of any extra-terrestrial origins or highly advanced, technological gimcrackery. I hear "laboratory" analysis has been carried out but, I wonder if its the same labs that repeatedly botch crop-circle investigations? Further, I haven't seen any actual analysis, just claims of "Wow, it's magically delicious!." Let's have Leir send some of his samples of staples to an accredited and very well respected and well known laboratory group (Not some backstreet environmental lab that tests groundwater or soil conditions but a fully accredited, multi-discipline testing laboratory specializing in metallurgy and technology.) and let them feel confident enough in their analysis to put their chop on it. Heck, let's send them to three and get a good, broad analysis done. We could even include some reverse engineering consults in that, just to see what we'd have to do in order to create them. Surely, with his book deals and such, 10 grand a pop or so for all that isn't too steep of a price? I'm sure the UFO community would cough up the bucks to have these claims examined and verified, right? A bunch of fat scientific papers would come out of that, gaining many some prestige in their own segments of the scientific community. Yet... all I hear are crickets and new guest spots on Coast-to-Coast and some book deals coming from this "research" and "amazing revelations."

The artifacts could EVEN be real but the actions of those who claim discovery raise serious doubts as to the credibility of many involved. 2+2 must equal 4 and one of these variable ain't adding up. It could be both...

 

[Stargate_Man]

I have never seen an interview with an Alleged Abductees who describes seeing any kind of computer systems on these alien space craft. I can't imagine a space craft that can travel throughout the galaxy without a computer. Maybe the aliens are so smart they do all the math themselves, or maybe they have voice or even telepathic user interfaces instead of the traditional mouse, keyboards and monitors we humans use. Anyway the abduction interviews you see on TV always seem to describe something similar to a visit to the dentist.

 

[old_buck]

Whenever I am confronted by a strange or "out of the norm" idea I always like to remember that for centuries Man held the common belief that the world was flat, and if you ventured out too far - - you'd fall off. All it will take is some tangible proof that is commonly available to the general public to change minds.

 

[Smersh]

Whenever I am confronted by a strange or "out of the norm" idea I always like to remember that for centuries Man held the common belief that the world was flat, and if you ventured out too far - - you'd fall off. All it will take is some tangible proof that is commonly available to the general public to change minds.

Absolutely. I mentioned this recently in another thread as well, but the analogy of Galileo and the Roman Catholic Church might well apply here, imo.

I voted "it's possible, yes." I don't believe we have anything like sufficient scientific knowledge to form an opinion on whether it's a definite "no," or a definite "yes."

As for having doubts, I ruled that out as well, because I have done quite extensive research now into the history of UFO sightings (and seen something myself at very close quarters that I still cannot explain) and am open-mided about the possibility that we are being visited by ETs (partcularly given the size of the known universe and the gazillions of stars and planets) so it doesn't really take a great stretch of credulity for me to consider the possibilty that they might also abduct people sometimes, for whatever reason.

So the only vote left for me was "it's possible, yes."

 

[mediadawg]

There is always the theory that these are time travelers or even inter dimensional travelers that are not alien at all but of human kind who are returning to this time and or dimension for research purposes...of course all theoretical...BTW with all of the cameras in cell phones today, we have no further photographic proof than before this proliferation of cameras...what does that tell ya? Just sayin.

 

[Erevna]

"Do you believe alien abductions are real?" is like asking "Do you believe Jesus Christ died for your sins?". There are layers of questions. First, do you believe that there ARE self-aware sentient beings in the universe? Second, do you believe they have the means of traveling our planet? Third, do you believe these beings have an interest in hiding themselves from the general public and cause agony to helpless unarmed civilians? Fourth, do you believe that no agency would be aware of this situation enough to help those unarmed civilians? Or fifth, do you believe these are aliens and not some other kind of entity; such as demons, angles or higher evolved beings primarily residing on a different plan of existence? (GO TO the first question...)

I agree with some that "extra-ordinary claims deserve extra-ordinary evidence". I'm found of saying "Faith (or belief) is a roll of the dice, but truth is eternal."

 

[yevaud]

Interesting thread.

I have a past experience involving John Mack myself. Without going into the long and gory details, when I was an Undergrad (in my 30s though, with years of electronics and military experience behind me already) here in Boston, I was approached by him to volunteer with his institute at Harvard (courtesy of an acquaintance from MITSFS - the MIT Science Fiction Society - who happened to mention me to one of his assistants). He wanted me to assist in looking at "abducted-drawn" pictures of vehicles, and try to determine if they were feasible and/or reasonably sensible as manned craft (eh, I am still skeptical they were good designs - the typical disc shape, frequently with radial lights or ports all around).

I declined, as to be a hard-science major and work for Doctor Mack would have been a sort of professional death; talk about obtaining the taint of "oh, he's one of those "woo-woo" types. Still, it would have been a hoot.

I DO recollect in my one and only visit (meeting him briefly), there were interesting aspects to these drawings (I was shown about 40-50). The craft were always of a similar shape and nature, as were the drawings of the alien abductors (e.g., the "Asgard" image from Stargate).

 

[Craig024]

I have my doubts. The simple fact that almost all of the evidence from abductions is shady at best. Until theres solid proof you wont be able to convince me that "beings from another planet who have managed to bypass relativity, find us and travel across the universe to abducted us and probe us" is a more plausible explaination to the sightings and cover-ups than "Test jet we dont want the communist to know about" :lol:

 

[yevaud]