Seeing the ISS at night?

Cassini12 · Apr 7, 2008

i check the heavens above webiste, I see when and were it is supposes to be "in sight" and i have yet to see it. I may have been looking into the wrong portion of the sky, I have now printed some star sheets and I will look again and make sure that I have the right area. My question is, Is it even possible to see it with the naked eye? do i need to use my telescope? and on the website, it shows<table border="1" cellpadding="5"><tbody><tr><th>Event</th><th>Time</th><th>Altitude </th><th>Azimuth </th><th>Distance (km)</th></tr><tr><td>Rises above horizon

MeteorWayne · Apr 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>i check the heavens above webiste, I see when and were it is supposes to be "in sight" and i have yet to see it. I may have been looking into the wrong portion of the sky, I have now printed some star sheets and I will look again and make sure that I have the right area. My question is, Is it even possible to see it with the naked eye? do i need to use my telescope? and on the website, it showsEventTimeAltitude Azimuth Distance (km)Rises above horizon20:05:210°308° (NW )2,123Reaches 10° altitude20:07:4210°327° (NNW)1,287Maximum altitude20:09:5219°16° (NNE)900Enters shadow20:12:0310°65° (ENE)1,298Drops below 10° altitude20:12:0010°65° (ENE)1,285 So what time frame would be the best view? readhes above 10 alt, max alt? drops below alt? Sorry for being a PITA  thanks.. -J Posted by Cassini12</DIV>No problem. The ISS is so bright, when it's above 25 degrees elevation it would be hard to miss. You must be looking at the wrong spots, at the wrong times, or don't know what to expect.First make sure your watch is accurate to within a minute or so. There's a link on the heaven's- Above page (I recommend using that rather than the NASA page, they seem to update faster-- see the Observing SPacecraft thread in Missions and Launches)It's not critical for most satellites other than the Iridium Flares; since they ask only 5 or 10 seconds, your timepiece must be very accurate.Second, do you know where north is?Do you know any constellations? If you do, we can help you get oriented.Finally, what it looks like... It i very bright stellar object. You can't see the shape.But it's very bright. For a high elevation pass (> 45 degrees) it's brighter than anything in the sky except for the Sun, the Moon, Venus, and Iridium flares.It sort of looks like a plane, but of course doesn't have flashing lights.It moves fast enough it's almost impossible to foloow with a telescope, but that's not the best way...a telescope looks at too small a part of the sky. I am going to bring the observing spacecraft thread back to the top in Missions and Launches...there's lots of good reference material there including a link to the Heave's Above page. Naked eye or binoculars are best. Naked eye to spot it, the binoculars if you want to get a close look, but really you still can't see the shape.I prefer the Heven's Above page because it gives more detailed timing information such as when and where it appears, when and where it is at max elevation, and when and where it disappears To me , that's more useful than the NASA page.Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Cassini12 · Apr 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>No problem. The ISS is so bright, when it's above 25 degrees elevation it would be hard to miss. You must be looking at the wrong spots, at the wrong times, or don't know what to expect.First make sure your watch is accurate to within a minute or so. There's a link on the heaven's- Above page (I recommend using that rather than the NASA page, they seem to update faster-- see the Observing SPacecraft thread in Missions and Launches)It's not critical for most satellites other than the Iridium Flares; since they ask only 5 or 10 seconds, your timepiece must be very accurate.Second, do you know where north is?Do you know any constellations? If you do, we can help you get oriented.Finally, what it looks like... It i very bright stellar object. You can't see the shape.But it's very bright. For a high elevation pass (> 45 degrees) it's brighter than anything in the sky except for the Sun, the Moon, Venus, and Iridium flares.It sort of looks like a plane, but of course doesn't have flashing lights.It moves fast enough it's almost impossible to foloow with a telescope, but that's not the best way...a telescope looks at too small a part of the sky. I am going to bring the observing spacecraft thread back to the top in Missions and Launches...there's lots of good reference material there including a link to the Heave's Above page. Naked eye or binoculars are best. Naked eye to spot it, the binoculars if you want to get a close look, but really you still can't see the shape.I prefer the Heven's Above page because it gives more detailed timing information such as when and where it appears, when and where it is at max elevation, and when and where it disappears To me , that's more useful than the NASA page.Wayne Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>     Ok, Sounds good. thank you very much for your help. Yes i know like 2 constalltions. I am trying to get better at it.. Is the North star the brightest? ALL the time or is sirius brighter?

MeteorWayne · Apr 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>     Ok, Sounds good. thank you very much for your help. Yes i know like 2 constalltions. I am trying to get better at it.. Is the North star the brightest? ALL the time or is sirius brighter? Posted by Cassini12</DIV>The north star is rather dim, the 20th or 30th brightest star in the norther sky.Do you know the big dipper?What other constellations do you know.Sirius is always the brightest star in the sky, though Venus and Jupiter can get brighter than it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Cassini12 · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The north star is rather dim, the 20th or 30th brightest star in the norther sky.Do you know the big dipper?What other constellations do you know.Sirius is always the brightest star in the sky, though Venus and Jupiter can get brighter than it. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> Yes I do know the big dipper. I dont know were venus and jupiter are. I know were Saturn is alsmost all the time.

MeteorWayne · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Yes I do know the big dipper. I dont know were venus and jupiter are. I know were Saturn is alsmost all the time. Posted by Cassini12</DIV>Well, if you know the big dipper, you can find the north star.If you follow the two stars at the end of the bowl from the bottom of the bowl to the top, about 5 times that distance away is the north star. Here's an experiment. If this comes out, here's a shot of the northern sky at midnight. The big dipper is upside down near the top, a dotted line from the bowl stars points to the north star which I circled. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/13/ef54f0c5-0141-4c2a-bd36-2c7019ca4a07.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Cassini12 · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well, if you know the big dipper, you can find the north star.If you follow the two stars at the end of the bowl from the bottom of the bowl to the top, about 5 times that distance away is the north star. Here's an experiment. If this comes out, here's a shot of the northern sky at midnight. The big dipper is upside down near the top, a dotted line from the bowl stars points to the north star which I circled. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>  I'm trying to see this now, So at the "bottom" of the "handle" of the bid dipper, i would just imagine the line being longer and this points to the North star?

MeteorWayne · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>  I'm trying to see this now, So at the "bottom" of the "handle" of the bid dipper, i would just imagine the line being longer and this points to the North star? Posted by Cassini12</DIV>That didn't come out too good. Can you see the big dipper updside down near the top of the image?The bowl is on the top left spilling it's contents. The leftmost two stars of the bowl point at the north star, which is dead center near the bottom. Let me try it again with a brighter color for my pointers; it seems whe the image is shrunk down, the red I used is hard to see.Here's take 2. Sorry I'm not very good at making the images the way I want yet, hope this is better. I picked an earlier time, around 9PM so the Big Dipper is in the upper right, I drew in a yellow arrow pointing from the bowl to the north star, Polaris.Another thing you can do on the Heaven's-Above page (another reason I like it) is if you click on the date of the pass, it will bring up a map showing the path of the ISS across the stars planets and moon in the sky. That helps a lot too.Just be sure you set your location properly, either by selecting your town from the database or from the new google map function they've added <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/11/fa94a766-0ee1-47f1-9bdf-f55adf3a103a.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Apr 8, 2008

If you can tell us what town you live in, I might be able to give better advice...can also keep an eye on the wether then too to see which passes you'll have the best chance to spot. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Cassini12 · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If you can tell us what town you live in, I might be able to give better advice...can also keep an eye on the wether then too to see which passes you'll have the best chance to spot. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>  I live in Billerica, MA 01821 Looking at that second map. It looks to me like the "north star" (which is that also called polaris?) it looks like it points to the "little dipper"? or am i completely wrong..?

MeteorWayne · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>  I live in Billerica, MA 01821 Looking at that second map. It looks to me like the "north star" (which is that also called polaris?) it looks like it points to the "little dipper"? or am i completely wrong..? Posted by Cassini12</DIV>The north star (polaris) is at the end of the handle of the little dipper. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The north star (poalaris) is at the end of the handle of the little dipper. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> OK, so tonight's pass for you will be going from left to right, below polaris and below the handle of the big dipper. It will be brighter than any stars in that part of the sky visible from about 8:29 PM to 8:33 PM. At about 8:31:15 it will be directly below the north star.Looks like the weather should be superb tonight for both of us (I'm in NJ). It's a bit harder for me to see tonight since it's only 19 degrees above the horizon, in my worst direction where the ridge is that the NJAA observatory is perched on, but should just clear the trees.I notice tomorrow, you have a beautiful overhead pass from 8:50 to 8:53, that will be even brighter, since it's closer. For you it's 84 degrees (90 degrees is straight up) for me it's only 40 dehrres up, about the same height as the north star. But that's tomorrow, you should have no trouble catching it tonight.Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Guanaco · Apr 8, 2008

I just read your thread and am looking forward to hearing about your first sighting.  If you look tonight you should get a double treat, since the Soyuz spacecraft carrying the new crew is currently chasing down the ISS.  Several times I've watched docking / undocking procedures from my backyard.  You will probably be able to see BOTH spacecraft flying together in formation tonight. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I just read your thread and am looking forward to hearing about your first sighting.  If you look tonight you should get a double treat, since the Soyuz spacecraft carrying the new crew is currently chasing down the ISS.  Several times I've watched docking / undocking procedures from my backyard.  You will probably be able to see BOTH spacecraft flying together in formation tonight. Posted by Guanaco</DIV>Good point, thanks for bringing that up.I'm not sure how close the Soyuz will be by this evening, but if you see  a dimmer object on the same general orbit, that would be it. The ISS will be FAR brighter <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif" border="0" alt="Cool" title="Cool" />If I can dig up any details as to which will be leading, and which trailing, I'll post it here.Heavens Above has not included it yet, nor has the NASA sighting page.They are scheduled to dock at 9AM tomorrow (EDT) so should be pretty close.MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Cassini12 · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Good point, thanks for bringing that up.I'm not sure how close the Soyuz will be by this evening, but if you see  a dimmer object on the same general orbit, that would be it. The ISS will be FAR brighter If I can dig up any details as to which will be leading, and which trailing, I'll post it here.Heavens Above has not included it yet, nor has the NASA sighting page.They are scheduled to dock at 9AM tomorrow (EDT) so should be pretty close.MW Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> Thats awsome, Thank you all Very much.. I cant wait.. Hopefully i can figure this out for tonights sighting, I will for sure keep you updated

Cassini12 · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Thats awsome, Thank you all Very much.. I cant wait.. Hopefully i can figure this out for tonights sighting, I will for sure keep you updated Posted by Cassini12</DIV> Just noticed something you said. So 90* is directly up above my head? which makes me looking almost at were the big dipper will be tonight?  i dont know about this degree stuff..

MeteorWayne · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Just noticed something you said. So 90* is directly up above my head? which makes me looking almost at were the big dipper will be tonight?  i dont know about this degree stuff.. Posted by Cassini12</DIV> Actually, at the time of the ISS pass, the bowl of the big dipper will be at 60 degrees altutude, the bowl is upside down, and the two stars at the end of the bowl furthest away from the handle point downward to the north star.I'm not sure how old you are, but you know a 90 degree angle?If so it's simple to think about, but harder in practice. The horizon is 0 degrees altitude, straight overhead is 90 degrees. Halfway up in the sky is 45 degrees. Forunately for us, we have a good marker for halfway up, the north star!For me, it's at ~ 41 degrees high, for you, about 42.5 degrees high. That's one reason the north star is a key.The other is that Polaris is your friend. Unlike everything else in the sky, it's always at the same spot. Noon, Midnight, 6 o'clock Winter,Spring, Summer, and Fall. Always. (Just to be accurate, it does wobble a little, but too little to be concerned about for this discussion.If you face the north star, and stick your arms out straight to your sides, your right arm points 90 degrees east, behind you is South 180 degrees, and your left are is 270 degrees due west.On the first day of spring the sun rises from your right hand direction, passes behind you over your head, and sets in your left hand direction. The north star, of course does not move.For us, the Big Dipper is circumpolar, which means it never goes below the horizon, It spins around the north star; where it is in that circle depends on the season and the time of night. Sometimes (like tonight at midnight) the bowl is perfectly upside down at about 75 degrees altitude. Same with Cassiopea, a W (or 3 or M or E) shape of bright stars the same distance away from the north star.At 8:30 it's about 60 degrees high at about 45 degrees to the right of the north star. So Polaris, the North Star is your friend. Find it (it will always be in the smae spot) and learn it. Remember, the north star is the only thing that doesn't move. I can walk out my house in the middle of the afternoon and point to where the north star is, because I've nearned where that spot is in relation to the trees on the hillside, and how far above the ridge it is.You should do the same thing. You'll never regret it, if you are interested in the sky.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Cassini12 · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Actually, at the time of the ISS pass, the bowl of the big dipper will be at 60 degrees altutude, the bowl is upside down, and the two stars at the end of the bowl furthest away from the handle point downward to the north star.I'm not sure how old you are, but you know a 90 degree angle?If so it's simple to think about, but harder in practice. The horizon is 0 degrees altitude, straight overhead is 90 degrees. Halfway up in the sky is 45 degrees. Forunately for us, we have a good marker for halfway up, the north star!For me, it's at ~ 41 degrees high, for you, about 42.5 degrees high. That's one reason the north star is a key.The other is that Polaris is your friend. Unlike everything else in the sky, it's always at the same spot. Noon, Midnight, 6 o'clock Winter,Spring, Summer, and Fall. Always. (Just to be accurate, it does wobble a little, but too little to be concerned about for this discussion.If you face the north star, and stick your arms out straight to your sides, your right arm points 90 degrees east, behind you is South 180 degrees, and your left are is 270 degrees due west.On the first day of spring the sun rises from your right hand direction, passes behind you over your head, and sets in your left hand direction. The north star, of course does not move.For us, the Big Dipper is circumpolar, which means it never goes below the horizon, It spins around the north star; where it is in that circle depends on the season and the time of night. Sometimes (like tonight at midnight) the bowl is perfectly upside down at about 75 degrees altitude. Same with Cassiopea, a W (or 3 or M or E) shape of bright stars the same distance away from the north star.At 8:30 it's about 60 degrees high at about 45 degrees to the right of the north star. So Polaris, the North Star is your friend. Find it (it will always be in the smae spot) and learn it. Remember, the north star is the only thing that doesn't move. I can walk out my house in the middle of the afternoon and point to where the north star is, because I've nearned where that spot is in relation to the trees on the hillside, and how far above the ridge it is.You should do the same thing. You'll never regret it, if you are interested in the sky.  Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>  Ok, yes that helped tremendously. I did understand what a 90* was, just not in relation to the sky. but now it is MUCH clearer. Thanks...

MeteorWayne · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>  Ok, yes that helped tremendously. I did understand what a 90* was, just not in relation to the sky. but now it is MUCH clearer. Thanks...   Posted by Cassini12</DIV> Hopefully I helped. Let us know after the 8:30 pass how you make out.We'll both be watching at the same time, so we can post afterward to see if you succeeded. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Cassini12 · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hopefully I helped. Let us know after the 8:30 pass how you make out.We'll both be watching at the same time, so we can post afterward to see if you succeeded. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> I absolutely will. I thank ALL of you very much for your help. I cannot wait to try this

Cassini12 · Apr 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> I absolutely will. I thank ALL of you very much for your help. I cannot wait to try this Posted by Cassini12</DIV> I just got back from the school parking lot that I went to to try to find the ISS. I brought my fiancee with me and I tell you it was one of the greatest things we have ever seen. Even she was very impressed. I cant thank you all enough, that was incredible.From my home i was getting a little nervous, thats why i went to the school parking lot which is luckily only 1min from my house,I think either it was a littly cloudy/foggy or just not dark enough, as I could see the big dipper, but could not get anything else to click in my head, I could not see the little dipper at all. I just found the big dipper and tried to best guess, which area I should be looking in.  Then at 8:29 we seen it clear as day, bright and fast, it was awsome. Then too absolutely make it 100% that we were looking at it, it disappeared right out of nowere, we are both looking VERY forward to doing this tommorow night also, this time with binoculars..I did not see the "ship" chasing it., maybe it was further behind or not bright or maybe it came first and I missed it. But I thank you all SO MUCH...

MeteorWayne · Apr 9, 2008

Excellent, sounds like we have another convert to the reflected sunlight side.I managed to spot it, though we had some Cirrus clouds, so it was quite challenging, especially because of the low altitude. I did not see the soyuz, but because of the thin clouds, probably couldn't have anyway.Now that we've got you hooked, the next project is to finish learning your way around the sky better so you can spot the Iridium Flares. For 5 seconds or so, they can be bright enough to cast shadows on the ground. Want to impress your fiance? Point at a blank spot in the sky and say watch this as a tiny point of light in the sky becomes blazingly bright. The brightest are as a 20% lit moon concentrated into a single point. It's awaesome. As I said though, you need a very accurate location and a very accurate watch.Another good thing to do is, on the Heavens-Above page click on and print out theDaily predictions for all satellites brighter than magnitude:(brightest) 3.5. These are the brightest satellites and once you get the hang of it are fairly easy to spot once you know your way around. To help with the paths, click on the time of max altitude, and you will see a map of the path across the sky. Even in a somewhat light polluted area, it can be done. I once aw Genesis 1 standing just outside the entrance of a baseball stadium; I could only see a few stars, but since I knew where the directions were (found the north star

) I managed to spot it.Then once you're really hooked you can work down to the fainter satellites + 4.0 and +4.5. But start with the +3.5 list, there are less and they are easier to spot.Glad we could help you. Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Cassini12 · Apr 9, 2008

Yes I will certainly be learning more and more as the warmer weather comes in.How about tonights pass? Any advice on seeing this one. My initial reaction would be to find the moon, then look North from there? will this be brighter since its so close to the moon, or is it really not close at all?

MeteorWayne · Apr 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yes I will certainly be learning more and more as the warmer weather comes in.How about tonights pass? Any advice on seeing this one. My initial reaction would be to find the moon, then look North from there? will this be brighter since its so close to the moon, or is it really not close at all? Posted by Cassini12</DIV> Well, it will be a bit darker tonight, so maybe you can find the north star?Actually, If you face the bowl of the big dipper, stick your arms out straight to the side. It will be rising from the horizon where your left hand is pointing (to the right or north of the moon as you said), then heading directly overhead. What's interesting about tonight's pass for you is that shortly after it passes overhead it will be heading into the earth's shadow and will fade out. Sometimes it changes color as this happens....good night to have binoculars, since you can then follow it longer after it starts to fade out.This will be a brighter pass since when it is overhead it is actually closer to you and goes the shortest distance through the atmosphere.When it's lower, it's not only further away, but the light passes through the atmosphere at an angle, so passes through more air, which dims it. Much like at sunset you can look at the sun, because the long distance through the atmosphere dims it enough that it doesn't fry your eyes. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Cassini12 · Apr 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well, it will be a bit darker tonight, so maybe you can find the north star?Actually, If you face the bowl of the big dipper, stick your arms out straight to the side. It will be rising from the horizon where your left hand is pointing (to the right or north of the moon as you said), then heading directly overhead. What's interesting about tonight's pass for you is that shortly after it passes overhead it will be heading into the earth's shadow and will fade out. Sometimes it changes color as this happens....good night to have binoculars, since you can then follow it longer after it starts to fade out.This will be a brighter pass since when it is overhead it is actually closer to you and goes the shortest distance through the atmosphere.When it's lower, it's not only further away, but the light passes through the atmosphere at an angle, so passes through more air, which dims it. Much like at sunset you can look at the sun, because the long distance through the atmosphere dims it enough that it doesn't fry your eyes. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> Oh ok, I get it.. So tonights will be at close to 90* rather than about 60-70* like last nigh?

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