SETI? We may have to SETL for less.

[bobvanx]

Here's a detail from that pair from my previous post, at the full MI resolution.<br /><br />

 

[CalliArcale]

Cool. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />I saw some images somebody else had made like that, back before the Uplink crash. Basically, it's evidence that Mars has wind. It's blowing around the lighter material. I think it's absolutely fascinating to watch, because we tend to think of Mars as being just this dead, static, unchanging place. But then when you see dust particles and very small pebbles moved or disturbed by the breeze, it seems much more real. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[abq_farside]

Re: <i>Here's a detail from that pair from my previous post, at the full MI resolution. </i><br /><br />Very interesting. But notice how the lower left quadrant has less motion then the other parts of the image. Specifically the larger rock centered in that quandrant is not showing much movement.<br /><br />And notice how as you move out, the movement of the rocks increase dramatically to the point in the upper right quardrant the rock is really zipping back and forth.<br /><br />Is that because when you make the pairs, they seem to be centered around the lower left. (I am not really sure how stereo pairs are created).<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em><font size="1" color="#000080">Don't let who you are keep you from becoming who you want to be!</font></em></p> </div>

 

[bobvanx]

Here, I slowed it down and added an tween frame.<br /><br /> /> the point in the upper right quadrant the rock is really zipping back and forth. <br /><br />Yes, unfortunately for the effects I'm looking for, the MER team hasn't yet imaged the same area with the same camera postion at the same time of the Martian day on consecutive days.<br /><br />I'm excited when I get overlap of 30% of a raw frame. I line them up as best I can, but I don't have an algorithm to linearize the image, so there is always some residual wackiness.<br /><br />Even so, the images show some motion that I don't think is wind, or thermal cycling, or those sorts of things. By looking at the "rock... zipping back and forth" you can train your eye to see that motion as "stationary," i.e., although you can clearly see it move on screen, it's camera motion.<br /><br />Then you look at the other particles and you can see their motion against this background of camera motion. <br /><br />And as Calli mentioned, it shows a surface that is very dynamic!<br /><br />I think the particles that are rotating in place are especially indicative of life's action, in this pair. If you watch the dirt above earthworms or sow bugs (that's pillbugs to some of you) the particles show this sort of motion.<br /><br />

 

[centsworth_II]

<i>A couple of things to keep in mind:</i> <br /><br /> The grains are all on a rock surface which may have a slope of 15 or 20 degrees.<br /><br /> The broken up , flat rocks (such as the one these grains are sitting on) lining the slopes of Endurance crater have sometimes moved under the weight of the rover. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[bobvanx]

<font color="yellow"> rocks... have sometimes moved under the weight of the rover.</font><br /><br />That's for sure! You can see at the margins of pancam images, the soil/rock interface gets disturbed very often.<br /><br />However, we can be pretty sure the rover didn't drive between these two images, since the MI is pointing very successfully at the same general area.<br /><br />So something besides the weight of the rover is moving these grains.<br /><br />We're at the bottom of a crater, with sand dunes that show small ripples that suggest recent aoelian (sp?) activity. Martian air is very thin, how strong does it have to blow to move sand-sized particles? It picks up fines at even the lowest speeds, but on Earth wind has to be moving pretty good for (what's the word? A quick google and we have...) saltation.

 

[centsworth_II]

I wonder if between micro images, the APXS or Mossbauer was used, moving the grains. Both instruments have contact collars which touch the surface being investigated. The collars leave an impression when used on soil, but when used on a rock they wouldn't leave a mark but could move grains on the rock surface. <br /><br />Just fishing for an explanation. I'm sure the grains are not alive. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[bobvanx]

I'm not sure how I could find out if the other intruments on the IDD get used between times. I've made these pairs from images that the contact collar has clearly disturbed the soil. Grains get pushed into the soil. On a rock, I don't know what would happen.<br /><br />In this pair, these particles are sitting in a little hollow, so the collar couldn't reach them.<br /><br />I wonder how much vibration the rover induces, just moving its arm and Pancam? If this bit of rock has good positive contact with a rover wheel, and the thing vibrates like a power sander, then this could be a visual record of that.<br /><br />Questions like that one are why, during conjuction, it'd sure be nice if they'd just image the same bit of soil over and over, so we could build a good movie out that.<br /><br />PS I don't think the grains are alive, either. I think they are recording the motion of something that IS alive, that we haven't seen and/or don't recognize.

 

[bobvanx]

Here, we've got a nice reference pair from Oppy. Images 1M147801845EFF35CCP2905M2M1 and its neighbor. The camera overlaps about 25% of the frame, the images are seconds apart, so we have all the same parameters (camera motion, shading changes, etc) except this pair of images is separated by tens of seconds rather than an entire sol.<br /><br />And guess what? You can see the surface is roughly the texture of a sponge, or an SOS pad, but there's none of the movement of particles and surface features that shows up when you compare images from overnight.<br /><br />Therefore, something happens on the timescale of hours that "churns" the surface.