The Business of Space Exploration

[dryson]

Most people think that there is not any value in space what so ever but these people are wrong and fit in with the same group that once thought the world was flat and that the Earth was the center of creation and the Universe.

Here is a list of items in everyday use on Earth that create a business for operations on the Moon and Mars that would create two new markets as well as providing the funding to private space agencies and NASA. And for those that say that we are not returning to the Moon or continuing to fund space exploration so why don't you go ahead and and place yourself in the shallow end of the pool with the rest of uneducated people on this planet.

Here is a list that would create a business on both the Moon and Mars:

Masonry: We know that both the Moon and Mars has soil otherwisewe would be able to see the core of both planets. The soil from both planets can be used to create mortars,cement,bricks,concrete,blocks of all shapes and sizes to build with. The soil from both of these planets could also be used to grow crops once the possibility of foreign microbials hiding in the soil had been eleviated.

Mining: Mining both planets would yield large amounts of ore that when refined could be manufactured into the items: Jewelry, eating utensils, golf clubs, structural steels, automobile steels, manufacturing steels, welding electrodes, computer components, fishing hooks, hard currency in the form of coins, imagine that, various types of tools, adult novelty toys, picture frames, anything that os made out of steel here on the planet would be able to be out of the same ores from the Moon or Mars.

Water:There has been water found on both planets which could be made into drinking water here on the Earth .

Then there are the comets and asteroid fields of which we could also mine various ores and water from to create even more business oppurtunities.

 

[edkyle99]

Most people think that there is not any value in space what so ever but these people are wrong and fit in with the same group that once thought the world was flat and that the Earth was the center of creation and the Universe.

The biggest space commerce involves communications satellites. A vast array of earth-bound business depends on GPS signals emitted by a constellation of orbiting navigation satellites. Weather, which depends on weather satellites, has become a bit of a business too. Then there are the commercial imaging satellites.

... for those that say that we are not returning to the Moon or continuing to fund space exploration so why don't you go ahead and and place yourself in the shallow end of the pool with the rest of uneducated people on this planet.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. The fact is that the U.S. is not returning to the Moon, at least not with astronauts. No plans for any U.S. human lunar landing now exist or are projected to exist ever. Constellation is history. Obama said "we've been there" to explain why we're not going back. The idea of human exploration of Mars is decades away if ever.

- Ed Kyle

 

[Booban]

We have soil,mining and water here on earth, where I need them to be. There is no place in the entire universe that is absolutely more perfect for us than where we are right now.

 

[dryson]

Sounds like the anti-space exploration community is trying to shut the door to humanity exploring space. The reason of having everything right here is not the reason to stay on the planet. Exploration is about discovery building new civilizations on different planets. The more that humanity stays on planet Earth the more that wars will continue to erupt eventually ending most life on the planet. If that is what evenyone wants based on their religious faith well guess what, when it happens it will mean the last chapter for religions that believe that fate because once that fate has been delivered and that end has come there will not be any reborn notion to satisfy some delusional half brained ideal of people only wanting to believe thay know without actually knowing or really trying to know the answer. Humanity has not only become lazy in discovering but humanity is becoming lazy in it's thoughts of thinking about the same thing over and over again one side hoping that it changes while the other hopes that it doesnt change which is insanity at wanting to do nothing but sit around and wait just so the ego's of those of the past who are dead and gone can be kept in tack.

The Moon and Mars and plenty of room for inovation and building.

Only the sluggard stays at home while the world comes to him so that the vines will consume him because he has fed the world with his own fear of not wanting to step foward into the unknown.

 

[vulture4]

If space exploration is to be sustainable as a business the cost of human launch has to be vastly reduced, at least by an order of magnitude. That's why Rutan (and even Musk) are looking at fully reusable systems. It's because expendables will always be too expensive for anything but unmanned payloads, political gestures and vacations for a few billionaires. Taxpayers will never foot the bill to send a few astronauts to the asteroids at current prices; that's just fantasy, and in any case at current launch costs any scientific objective can be achieved less expensively with robotic systems.

 

[nimbus]

We have soil,mining and water here on earth, where I need them to be. There is no place in the entire universe that is absolutely more perfect for us than where we are right now.

What's the evidence for this?

 

[Booban]

You're standing on it.

 

[steve82]

There is no business of space exploration. There is a case for a business of space transportation but transportation is an elevator ride along a fixed pre-determined path to a known destination. Exploration is a trip along an estimated course to an unknown destination. Part of the irrationality of the current space discourse is the way the politicians keep using the terms interchangeably.

 

[nimbus]

You're standing on it.

The Earth is evidence that no analog for Earth environmental conditions exist anywhere else in a universe that could be dozens of orders of magnitude larger than the observable universe?

 

[sftommy]

There is no place in the entire universe that is absolutely more perfect for us than where we are right now.

The business of space exploration and space transportation is built upon the hope that there is a more perfect place for all of us and for the multitudes of us yet to come. How can I look at the sufferings here daily world wide and not hope for a more perfect place?

Beyond the existence of happiness as a perfect "place", there is the pursuit of knowledge and abilities that can also be said to be "the perfect place". A lot of us get edgy when we think we've reached some perfect place as our spirit screams for some new challenge!

So if you're happy to contemplate earth-bound dirt-clods I would invite you to enjoy your happiness (I grew up in farmland-America it is cool to grow!), if you think your life should be a space-bound-pursuit or that the rewards of happiness are still boundlessly unknown then I invite you to look at the stars and reach for them with all your might...tell me that's not absolutely perfect!

 

[dryson]

The reason why we would have to use the Martian and Lunar soil to be used as building materials is because of the emotional value that would come from swinging a golf club made from Martian ore or looking at the foundation or terraced walls of your landscaping that come from the Moon and Mars. Imagine walking into a room where there are gorgeous ladies and all of the other men are really rich but you are not. The only item that you have is the ring that is made of Martian and Lunar ores. Who do you think the women will come flocking to when you begin to talk about the ring on your finger? Business pursuits in space can accomplish alot for this planet. Think about drinking a beer that was fermented or distilled in space on the Moon or Mars.Still another market to capitilize on. Let alone capturing a frozen asteroid and bottling the water up to drink. Another market to build. The real problem is the humanity has become lazy. You can bottle up spring water with many labels and market it thousands of ways but at the end of the day it is still just a bottle of spring water. You bottle up water from an asteroid only one way which makes the product a unique commodity for the market. Just think of growing tomatoes with Martian, Lunar or even asteroid water. It would bring an uniqueness to the product that not a single grower on Earth could use in their marketing.

 

[Booban]

You're standing on it.

The Earth is evidence that no analog for Earth environmental conditions exist anywhere else in a universe that could be dozens of orders of magnitude larger than the observable universe?

It really is a pity I have to spell it out. We have evolved specifically for this planet which has in turn evolved and formed through millions of years. This planet is unique as we are. Finding another planet more perfect for us would be like finding another planet with your twin on it.

 

[nimbus]

No pity required, the argument is bunk.
All we need is breathable air and manageable landscape (incl useful resources, H2O, metals, etc). Missing resources on that planet could be found in nearby space rocks or moons, since getting to that planet would require space transportation ability (interstellar in fact) in the first place. Perfect doesn't matter, only manageable enough.
Also, where's the math that guarantees there isn't a negligibly different planet out there? There isn't one. You just assert it from baseless intuition.

 

[Booban]

Intuition? Math? Why do I need math when I have proof and you don't?

Just breathable air and its all good? Like even that is so simple. Anymore oxygen in the air and it'll explode. Anymore gravity on the planet and we'll be tired all the time. Maybe the other planet has trees, but we can't even eat tree's on this planet! Will the other planet have edible vegetables? Creatures that taste any good? Pollen that won't make us sneeze constantly? Bacteria that won't kill us out right? Every detail counts.

Do I need maths to convince you that evolution has made us to fit exactly this planet?

Perfect does matter, which is what I am talking about. Small differences in 'habitable' planets would make living very difficult. Why would you leave this planet for a second rate one? There is one obvious reason, its because we are killing this one. And we are seeing 'small' changes have drastic affects on our possibility to continue living on this planet.

 

[nimbus]

It's intuition because you're applying general principles to specifics.
Man isn't anything special. It's anthropomorphic to pretend that stuff like water or oxygen or our range of ambient temperatures on Earth aren't all mostly present on even a single planet out there. It wasn't long ago that water was considered exceedingly rare in the universe... How'd that turn out?

Eating trees is reaching. Native veggies too, all we need is manageable environment for lots of hydroponics. If you're going to an exoplanet, you can afford this. Pollen is reaching. Bacteria I can see, but that's probably manageable if you just raze/sterilize some territory and work from that patch. Poison ivy and other nasty flaura&fauna certainly hasn't stopped us on this planet.

Evolution making us to fit exactly this planet: By the time we're going to exoplanets, natural genetics will be old history.

Perfect doesn't matter. Unless you're arguing for the sake of arguing. It's not the reality of colonization.

There is one obvious reason, its because we are killing this one.

Sounds like greenie Luddite rhetoric. We're not killing this one yet, and because we'd manage to kill this one is no guarantee we'd kill the next one. More likely there'd be a lot of backlash and resurgence of green tech and policy.

And we are seeing 'small' changes have drastic affects on our possibility to continue living on this planet.

Small in quotes because it's another intuitive assertion. Climate change isn't nearly understood enough to make that conclusion. The Earth isn't going to hell in the near future.

 

[Booban]

Wheres your maths to prove what you are saying? I am not using intuition, I am using logical arguments. But it makes it far easier to dismiss other peoples arguments by demanding that they back it up with volumes of scientific research doesn't it? How can you say man isn't anything special? Not like I said he was, I said special for THIS planet.

I don't care if water is or is not exceedingly rare in the universe, I am not talking about that, why are you using false comparisons for?

Why is eating trees reaching? Where is your maths to say we don't need vegetables on the planet? What are you kidding? You want to go to some shitty planet with no food when we have that we need here? Do I have to bring up every single possible friggin detail which allows us to absolutely thrive on this planet. It just just the right distance from the sun, the sun is just the right size so we all don't get fried, even the moon is just the right size so we can see at night and not cause tidal waves. I noticed you didn't even bother to bring up gravity. Our planet is JUST RIGHT for us to the finest details. YOU do the maths on the chances of finding another planet out there with just the right air mixture to not explode or make us high and dizzy all the day or short of breath, the exact same gravity and more.

But it really doesn't matter for you, these are small problems, in fact, any problem is a small problem for you because all you want to do with colonize other planets no matter what.

Forget it, no point arguing with someone full of themself yet uses FANTASY when he is standing on the proof.

 

[dryson]

Here is another business that would provide revenue for aspiring space firms and agencies that would back their projects gold prospecting. A week ago I watch an episode on the history channel called "How the Earth was made." The episode centered around gold. During the episode the hosts made the comment that gold does not bond with any other atom and cannot have been formed here on Earth. This notion makes gold an exo-metal meaning that it comes from a source other than being formed on a planet over millions of years and under millions of pounds of pressure. The show stated that gold must come from a star deep inside the galaxy that after the star exploded sent billions of gold nuggets in random directions throughout the galaxy. The gold nuggets then impacted Earth where they lay dormant form millions of years. The show even went on to explain how gold veins form. Now given the fact that gold is distributed in this manner would mean that the Moon, Mars and quite possibly the solid outer planets and asteroids and asteroid belts in this solar system may have gold trapped in the layers of the planet. After all if only 166,000 tons of gold have been discovered on Earth and the African gold mind is two miles below the surface can only mean one thing for the other planets of the Sol System, that there is gold in them theire planets. Since the African gold mine is two miles below the surface of the planet and is the most abundant source of gold on the planet then perhaps at the same depths on planets like Mars, Titan the Moon etc. we will find large deposits of gold the most valuable non-earth metal in the Universe.

 

[BurgerB75]

Still cheaper to mine it here on Earth as Gold is very dense (19,300kg per cubic meter) and would be expensive to transport back to Earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Characteristics

 

[aaron38]

We have soil,mining and water here on earth, where I need them to be. There is no place in the entire universe that is absolutely more perfect for us than where we are right now.

So was the crib you used to live in. So was your parent's house where mom and dad did everything for you. You had everything you needed, why did you leave? Because you outgrew that environment, hopefully. And humanity is outgrowing this planet. We need a frontier. The human spirit needs new challenges, new environments we can grow into. New things to explore, research, create. Places where we can do new highly powerful things without destroying the only biosphere we have in the known universe.

Otherwise we will simply stagnate as a species just like we would if we were all still living in our parent's basement. Now no one's saying you have to go, just don't stand in anyone else's way.


And note, Booban's attitude is precisely why I want space exploration privatized. I want the funding for space taken out of the hands of politicians who are always going to hear from the Boobans of the world telling them that space is a waste of money.

 

[aaron38]

A week ago I watch an episode on the history channel called "How the Earth was made." The episode centered around gold. During the episode the hosts made the comment that gold does not bond with any other atom and cannot have been formed here on Earth. This notion makes gold an exo-metal meaning that it comes from a source other than being formed on a planet over millions of years and under millions of pounds of pressure.

Is that how far dumbed down these shows are now? There is no nuclear fusion occuring anywhere on Earth, or any planet, including Jupiter. No elements are formed here, not counting radioactive decay. All metals are "exo-metals" from the primordial nebula. It's true for all elements, not just gold. And an element's chemical bonding has nothing to do with it's formation via nuclear processes.

 

[Valcan]

Booban and others,

Why is it when people talk of colonization they say PLANETS!!!!! THE MOON!!!!!!?

You dont need to colonize planets first really. Mars i can see it can be made quite habitable. The moon is just a materials source in my opinion.

To me the most common future habitate of man would be space habitats. You can have one 3 miles long and 4 miles wide or 300,000 mi.'s long and 100,000 miles wide. Or a Halo (minus flood).

So Booban others one day if we arent flooded by the ******** EARTH FIRST!!!!!!!! crowd we will reach the point we can build the next best thing to perfect. We can eventually reach near god hood. Who knows maybe one day millions upon millions of years from now we could be the "builders"- "ancients" etc who built all imaginable wonders and maybe even build a new species.

Maybe we are just the latest in a chain going back to the first life in the universe and maybe before that.

Gen. 1: 28 KJV
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

 

[dryson]

That is true about the Earth not creating any metals. What I meant to say was that gold is the least abundant of metals that we have on the planet that we mine for profit which makes it extremely valueable. The rest of the metals that comprise the planet like iron, silver, platinum, titanium ect. are in more abundance than gold is. The differance between gold and the rest of the metals is that it is used for many applications but is in such a short supply here on Earth that other planets might hold larger veins than the ones here on Earth do. The show even discussed how one company mines I think ten tons of rock just to extract a few grams of gold that cannot even be seen until the gold is refined into gold bars. So mining for gold on the Moon and Mars would be a very good business venture to begin since gold would have been distributed to almost every solid planet outside of golds melting point that is created by the sun.

 

[MeteorWayne]

That is true about the Earth not creating any metals. What I meant to say was that gold is the least abundant of metals that we have on the planet that we mine for profit which makes it extremely valueable.

sigh...

 

[Valcan]

That is true about the Earth not creating any metals. What I meant to say was that gold is the least abundant of metals that we have on the planet that we mine for profit which makes it extremely valueable. The rest of the metals that comprise the planet like iron, silver, platinum, titanium ect. are in more abundance than gold is. The differance between gold and the rest of the metals is that it is used for many applications but is in such a short supply here on Earth that other planets might hold larger veins than the ones here on Earth do. The show even discussed how one company mines I think ten tons of rock just to extract a few grams of gold that cannot even be seen until the gold is refined into gold bars. So mining for gold on the Moon and Mars would be a very good business venture to begin since gold would have been distributed to almost every solid planet outside of golds melting point that is created by the sun.

Gold isnt the only thing rarer here. There are a ton of metals that are very hard to get like only a few hundred tons a yr to a few hundred pounds. Many of them are quite easy to find in asteroids and other NEO.

Isnt platinum rarer than gold?

I just figure if we can get off this ball for anything but research we can eventually move most of the industry up to orbit.

Meteor you need to cheer up im writing this with a bad hangover right now and im not all depressed. Be happy.

 

[BurgerB75]

Gold isnt the only thing rarer here. There are a ton of metals that are very hard to get like only a few hundred tons a yr to a few hundred pounds. Many of them are quite easy to find in asteroids and other NEO.

Isnt platinum rarer than gold?

Iridium is one of them. And yes, Platinum is very rare. 0.003ppb in the Earth's crust (per wiki).