The fate of all intelligent species?

[lightwaves]

As humans, a species which just climbed up to another stage of evolution not long ago, we are doomed to be slaves of some tiny molecules called genes. All the emotions such as love, hatred, joy, sorrow, pride, self-esteem, etc. lie deeply, well hidden in the schematic of the genes. It's a dilemma. As these have helped us to survive for millions of years. Yet, as we become more intelligent and more aware of the "black hand" underneath every aspect of our behavior, we get to know that the only way to the ultimate freedom is to declare a war against them. It is going to be a time consuming process and it might take us hundreds of years to get there. However, we will prevail. The day we finally conquer the "evil forces" will also be the day of the end of humanity. We will realize that all the meaningfulness of life once so entangled in our thoughts is nothing but illusion designed as part of the survival plot in the genes. Inevitably, the human species will choose to celerbrate the triumph in the most glorious way, by looking into the stars and saying a last good-bye to the great universe before initiating a painless, bloodless, total self-destruction. <br />EVER WONDERED WHY THERE IS NO HIGHLY ADVANCED ALIEN CIVILIZATION TO BE FOUND?

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">As humans, a species which just climbed up to another stage of evolution not long ago, we are doomed to be slaves of some tiny molecules called genes.</font> Why, can't we control our feelings with just our mind alone? <font color="yellow">All the emotions such as love, hatred, joy, sorrow, pride, self-esteem, etc. lie deeply, well hidden in the schematic of the genes.</font> Yes, but the environment, education, and diet, not the genes, determine the how they are expressed. Trust me, the evidence for that is all around you. From the very moment you are aware that you are hopeless, you maintain hopelessness. From the very moment that you are aware they you are happy, you maintain happiness. It's as simple as that. When we are let down, we let the environment take us down.<br /><br />Let us define "advanced civilization".<br /><br />Civilization is a derviation of the word "civil" not military.<br /><br />An advanced civilization does not destroy "civility". A high level of civility is obviously an ideal goal for those oriented by sanity.<br /><br />The notion of "civil" implies already the existence of desires and emotions. These emotions define what kind of society we have.<br /><br />Obviously, those with the foresight will not choose for society without emotions.<br /><br />Any proposal to rid society of emotions altogether, is doomed to failure.<br /><br />It can easily be conqured by those who have emotions, both positive and negative. Positive emotions allow for positive reinforcement. Negative emotions allow for negative reinforcement. Anything that lacks emotions cannot be reprogrammed by the environment without direct chemical and physical intervention upon the brain. Anything without emotions is intellectually sepreated from their desire to existence. It is quite obvious that intelligent species will not be so dumb as to destroy the meaning of life when they already have it. Step outside your notions of the "mea

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"EVER WONDERED WHY THERE IS NO HIGHLY ADVANCED ALIEN CIVILIZATION TO BE FOUND?"</font><br /><br />Non-intelligent species die out when conditions change and they are no longer capable of surviving. This could happen to intelligent species also. In addition, intelligent species could gain the ability to destroy themselves.<br /><br />But there is a perhaps more optimistic explanation for the failure to find other intelligence in the universe. If light speed is truly a natural limit that cannot be and will never be exceeded, There may be billions of worlds inhabited by intelligent beings that will never know of each other. It may be that no matter how advanced a civilization becomes, it will never be able to break the light speed limit to observation and communication.<br /><br />It must be rare that two worlds are close to each other (maybe within 50 light years -- 10 would be better, but much more rare) and the inhabitants of both worlds develop the ability and the desire to both transmit and receive signals.<br /><br />There may be lucky worlds somewhere in the universe in contact with each other, but we just may not have that luck. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Philotas]

<font color="yellow">It must be rare that two worlds are close to each other (maybe within 50 light years -- 10 would be better, but much more rare) and the inhabitants of both worlds develop the ability and the desire to both transmit and receive signals.</font><br /><br />How about both planets being in the same solar system, both at each edges of the so called 'habitable zone'? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">In addition, intelligent species could gain the ability to destroy themselves.</font><br /><br />Sounds like a OXYMORON to me. Dumb species destroy themselves, not intelligent ones.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">It must be rare that two worlds are close to each other (maybe within 50 light years -- 10 would be better, but much more rare) and the inhabitants of both worlds develop the ability and the desire to both transmit and receive signals.</font><br /><br />An infant in it's third trimester can be heard by the mother, but the mother is rarely heard by the infant. If it does, it has a small attention span, for it lacks an acute awareness. The infant's weakness prevents from harming its mother. Humanity is the same way. We are not ready to see the light yet, we are to be kept aloof for the time being, until we have developed the proper organs so that we can make a healthy contact with the outside.

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"Sounds like a OXYMORON to me."</font><br />Don't get me started. Human existence is replete with oxymorons.<br /><br /><br /><font color="yellow">"Humanity is the same way. We are not ready to see the light yet, we are to be kept aloof for the time being, until we have developed the proper organs so that we can make a healthy contact with the outside."</font><br />Poetic science fiction. Although on the whole, the light speed limit acts as a natural barrier keeping intelligent species throughout the universe from interacting. <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"How about both planets being in the same solar system, both at each edges of the so called 'habitable zone'?"</font><br /><br />I wonder how rare a balacing act that is.<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />My own feeling is that microscopic life is very common throughout the universe, advanced, macroscopic life exists on fewer worlds, and intelligent life on yet fewer. But who knows, maybe once life takes hold, it finds a way to the next level and the next, barring an extreme environmental disaster like that which occured on Mars. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">on the whole, the light speed limit acts as a natural barrier keeping intelligent species throughout the universe from interacting.</font><br /><br />The pioneer effect may indicate the space between our solarsystem and neaby solarsystems is hyperbolic. If so, then perhaps the major distance indicator, parallax of nearby stars, is invalid and distances are exaggerated to look "as though" they are as far as they "appear" to be. Current parallax measures assume that the space between the stars is relatively flat - but what if they are relatively "open" instead? Now that would be the ultimate natural barrier to keep man from exploring other stars, the perhaps dozens of stars that are within 1 light year, which we think are further (based on our limited empirical knowledge gathered only within the confines of our solarsystem).

 

[Philotas]

<font color="yellow">I wonder how rare a balacing act that is.</font><br /><br />When you think of how big the universe is, it has probably happened quite a few times. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"When you think of how big the universe is, it has probably happened quite a few times."</font><br /><br />Yes, in terms of life evolving on two neighboring planets. Heck, I'm still harboring hope for Mars! The question then becomes, how often does life on a planet evolve into intelligence? Your statement may hold true for this as well, who knows? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Philotas]

<font color="yellow"> Your statement may hold true for this as well, who knows? </font><br /><br />That was what I thought, at least.. <br /><br />Now the question is: could life somewhere even evolve into an intelligent form at one of those planets moons, hence leaving us with 3 civilzations in one solar system? Again, think of the greatness of the universe.. <br /><br />The best we can hope for, is a civilization on a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri that has not yet developed technologies for radio communications, such that we have not been able to detect them yet. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[mlorrey]

Actually, the Nemesis companion star, which could be either a brown dwarf or a red dwarf, could have one or two planets in its habitable zone. Given as its predicted to be less than 1 ly from Earth, it could be a stepping stone to elsewhere while also being home to intelligent species.

 

[mikeemmert]

lightwaves said:<br /><br />"All the emotions such as love, hatred, joy, sorrow, pride, self-esteem, etc. lie deeply, well hidden in the schematic of the genes. It's a dilemma"<br /><br />Wha**@!! What "dilemma"? What are you talking about? All these things are woven into the tapestry of the joy of life.<br /><br />"Yet, as we become more intelligent and more aware of the "black hand" underneath every aspect of our behavior, we get to know that the only way to the ultimate freedom is to declare a war against them."<br /><br />Try going with the flow, instead. You might enjoy it.<br /><br />"It is going to be a time consuming process and it might take us hundreds of years to get there."<br /><br />Well, you go ahead on the journey of denying your humanity. Don't ask me to come along.<br /><br />" Inevitably, the human species will choose to celerbrate the triumph in the most glorious way, by looking into the stars and saying a last good-bye to the great universe before initiating a painless, bloodless, total self-destruction. "<br /><br />I recoil at this repulsive thought. This is some kind of Jihadist philosophy, antithetical to sanity, the product of perhaps manic depression or some other neurological disorder. I would suggest you see a psychiatrist on an emergency basis.<br /><br />I would agree with the poster who says that suicide is not intelligent, and neither is your post. Good day, sir. <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /><br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[kmarinas86]

<div style=""><br /><font size="7" color="yellow">YES!!!!!!!!!!<br />NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT</font></div>

 

[neutron_star69]

WOW, you got a lot of time on your hands

 

[Philotas]

Well, first I have my doubts about Nemesis; such a big object should have been detected by now. <br />Secondly, brown dwarfs cannot have a habitable zone, can they? Same is for red dwarfes; I imagine their habitable zone would be so small that even a single planet would have problems fitting in it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

There are two types of habitable zone. One is a zone around a star where a planet can have liqid water on the surface. The other is a zone <b>inside</b> a planet where, due to geothermal, or tidal, heating, liqid water can exist. This second type of habitable zone does not require heat from a star. Of course there's no way to know now if life could originate in the second type of zone. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Philotas]

Yes, I am considering that possibilty. <br />A such zone is not related to a star at all, wich is why I assume that brown dwarfes and red dwarfes do not have habitable zones. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

"...brown dwarfes and red dwarfes do not have habitable zones."<br /><br />Which is not to say that they don't have planets orbiting them that do have habitable zones (in their interior). <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[telfrow]

<b>A Planet With Planets? Spitzer Finds Cosmic Oddball</b><br /><br />From: http://www.physorg.com/news8623.html<br /><br /><i>"The little brown dwarf, called Cha 110913-773444, is one of the smallest known. At eight times the mass of Jupiter, it is even smaller than several planets around other stars. <br /><br />Yet, this tiny orb might eventually host a tiny solar system. Spitzer's infrared eyes found, swirling around it, a flat disk made up of dust that is thought to gradually clump together to form planets. Spitzer has previously uncovered similar planet-forming disks around other brown dwarfs, but Cha 110913-773444 is the true dwarf of the bunch. <br /><br />"Our goal is to determine the smallest 'sun' with evidence for planet formation," said Dr. Kevin Luhman of Pennsylvania State University, University Park, lead author of a new paper describing the findings in the Dec. 10 issue of Astrophysical Journal Letters. "Here, we have a sun that is so small it is the size of a planet." <br /><br />Brown dwarfs are born like stars, condensing out of thick clouds of gas and dust. But unlike stars, brown dwarfs do not grow large enough to trigger nuclear fusion. They remain relatively cool spheres of gas and dust. <br /><br />Astronomers have become more confident in recent years that brown dwarfs share another trait in common with stars - planets. The evidence is in the planet-forming disks. Such disks are well-documented around stars, but only recently have they been located in increasing numbers around brown dwarfs. So far, Spitzer has found dozens of disk-sporting brown dwarfs, five of which show the initial stages of the planet-building process. The dust in these five disks is beginning to stick together into what may be the "seeds" of planets (See http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/starsgalaxies/spitzer-20051020.</i> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>