This is gonna sound crazy...well it is crazy.

[Seager1991]

I know that this is probably impossible but I've been giving it a lot of thought. Would it be possible to create say a different planet like habitat (not habitat but you'll get what i mean) say in an aquarium with all the sides sealed and some how only introduce the elements that would play a part on the planet. Then introduce some new ones to see how it effects them....yep i know sounds crazy.

 

[csmyth3025]

I know that this is probably impossible but I've been giving it a lot of thought. Would it be possible to create say a different planet like habitat (not habitat but you'll get what i mean) say in an aquarium with all the sides sealed and some how only introduce the elements that would play a part on the planet. Then introduce some new ones to see how it effects them....yep i know sounds crazy.

It sounds to me like your describing what people commonly think of as a terrarium. An experiment of this sort was tried on a large scale in Oracle, Arizona in the early 1990's. It was called Biosphere II.

Although this eperiment didn't seek to emulate the environment of other planets, it probably could have been adapted to do so.

You idea isn't crazy at all. The problem is that there just aren't very many people (or organizations) with lots of money placing a high priority on pursuing this type of research.
Chris

 

[a_lost_packet_]

I know that this is probably impossible but I've been giving it a lot of thought. Would it be possible to create say a different planet like habitat (not habitat but you'll get what i mean) say in an aquarium with all the sides sealed and some how only introduce the elements that would play a part on the planet. Then introduce some new ones to see how it effects them....yep i know sounds crazy.

Absolutely!

It's not crazy. In fact, it's done all the time. The most often cited experiment is the "Miller-Urey" Experiments. They spawned from the idea that the Earth was a rich, primeval "soup" and life got its kick-start from a variety of interactions including ancient lightning.

Life Soup

 

[CalliArcale]

To explain the seemingly contradictory replies above, ALP is describing small-scale experiments, often done to probe questions of the origin of life, or to study the interaction of chemicals in an alien world's atmosphere. csmyth3025, meanwhile, is describing large-scale experiments attempting to create a self-sustaining biosphere. I'm aware of two biosphere attempts (the other was Soviet), both of which were ultimately rather expensive failures. But the idea is to work out how to get a colony or space station to live independently of resupply without hauling along a truly ginormous amount of materiel.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

I thought the request was to design a small scale environment that could be scientifically tested for the effects of introduced substances.

 

[csmyth3025]

I thought the request was to design a small scale environment that could be scientifically tested for the effects of introduced substances.

Your right, of course. I read into the original post my own fascination with artificial habitats for human exploration of space.

Chris

 

[a_lost_packet_]

I thought the request was to design a small scale environment that could be scientifically tested for the effects of introduced substances.

Your right, of course. I read into the original post my own fascination with artificial habitats for human exploration of space.

Chris

But, I think it is worth noting large scale, real world comparisons. After all, both are experiments but one is more immediately practical and has immediate real-world applications. Biospheres are extremely important experiments. However, sadly, I don't think there has been one significant one yet that was entirely successful. (I'd love to learn differently though!)

One of the problems is keeping everyone from going at eachother's throats. The other is limiting the effects of "contraband" (Sneaking in candy bars is a no-no). But, the biggest is dealing with unplanned consequences. After all, that's what they're all about. A biosphere tries to mimic a self-enclosed ecosystem. What is becoming abundantly clear is that even the most seemingly minor problem can quickly spiral out of control. The impact of "minor" problems is magnified and exaggerated due to the very small sampling of resources. When an otherwise "minor problem" actually ends up impacting 50% of your biosphere or critical systems, that is suddenly a MAJOR problem. Even lower impacts in the barely significant, 5% range could seriously impact a real world mission. And, being a biosphere that is supposed to be self-contained, there are no additional resources to draw on...

I'm not sure if there have been any controlled experiments with biospheres. Most of the problem has focused around getting them stable and controlled to begin with. Until then, experiments might not yield usable information.

 

[csmyth3025]

Certainly "small scale" environmental experiments would be very useful in exploring the possible interactions that might occur in alien environments. Such environments might range from the possible sub-surface or even subterrainean (e.g., lava tubes) habitats that might have existed on Mars for eons to similarly long-lived oceanic ice covered habitats on the moons of Jupiter and Saturn. To model these possible habitats, though, I think we would need to learn a lot more about the likely chemistry and conditions that might exist. As far as I know, our current data is pretty sketchy.

Regarding "large scale" enclosed human habitats, I firmly believe we need to demonstrate our ability to manage such closed-loop, full-scale environments here on Earth over a significant period of time (a year or more) before we attempt to establish a Lunar base (or other permanent space presence). The on-going Mars 500 experiment in Russia is a step in this direction.

One thing to remember about these experiments is that even when they seem to fail, they're successful if we can learn something from them (even if what we learn is what not to do).

Chris

 

[a_lost_packet_]

...One thing to remember about these experiments is that even when they seem to fail, they're successful if we can learn something from them (even if what we learn is what not to do).

Chris

Absolutely!

After all, even Newton wasn't completely right but, we certainly learned a lot from his ideas.