What does the Orion neighborhood see in our direction?

[R1]

I've been watching a lot of you tube videos on the Giza pyramids,<br /> and I'm wondering if anyone has a map (or link) of how the sky would<br />look to Orion in our direction, either now or 10000 yrs ago.<br /><br />It seems that scientists would have started making such map as soon as it<br />was discovered that the Giza pyramids map Orion's belt. Not that Sol, our Sun,<br />would appear outstanding, since the Orion Belt stars are massive blue-hot stars,<br />but wouldn't anyone wonder what constellations might be seen looking from Orion's<br />belt in our direction?<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[R1]

right, ok<br /><br />just the belt alone, <br />I think the 3 big blue giants are all within a 1500 light yr distance from us(approx),<br /><br />so from that region, for example the blue giant in the center, is there a certain<br />appearance or constellation which someone there would see when looking <br />exactly in our direction 10,000 yrs ago?<br /><br />(in other words, and for example(just as example,since I know Orion is not part of the north star group,)<br /> if someone in the north pole sees orion above, which constellation<br />would someone be seeing in the south pole looking up at the same instant? and is that what <br />someone in the center orion belt star would have seen when looking in our direction 10,000 yrs ago?)<br /> <br /><br />edit/ ps: I did wonder if I should post this in phenomena.<br /> However, I'm only wondering about the specific astronomical appearance from <br />that perspective and location, and I understand our 3 d maps of the universe are finally<br />getting more accurate and advanced. (my question is strictly about astronomy maps,<br />no hocus-pocus, no ET's <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />)<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[adrenalynn]

Workin' on it right now. 5 mins. <br /><br />[edit]<br />Wow. 15mins? I'm getting slow in my old age. . . <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[adrenalynn]

Ok - this is a view of Sol from Alnilam (The middle star in Orion's belt. Also approx the middle distance from Sol at about 1500ly)<br /><br />The date is 10/19/4713 BCE - as far back as I can go in this version.<br /><br />Is this what you're looking for?<br /><br />http://www.jlrdesigns.com/sol-orion1.jpg <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[robnissen]

That's pretty cool. I had never heard of the Giza/Orion hypothesis before. A quick google found this debunking web site:<br /><br />http://www.ianlawton.com/oc8.htm<br /><br />I must say, however, as debunking web sites go, I don't find this one overly persuasive. With my three minutes of knowledge on the topic, it seems possible to me that maybe the pyramids were trying to replicate Orion's belt.

 

[R1]

Adrenalynn that's awesome, thanks so much, <br />maybe some versions will go further back in time someday.<br /><br />what does that image look like zoomed out some more, in other words what are some other large stars<br />around the perimeter?<br /><br />(RobNissen, thanks for your input (you know the nearby river (Nile?) also<br />mimics the Milky Way to the left of Orion)<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[adrenalynn]

To answer that question, I'm going to need to pull up some more serious tools on a more serious computer - might as well try going back to your desired time period at the same time.<br /><br />If I zoom out too far with the fairly small atlas that StarryNight has*, I start getting a lot of empty sky.<br /><br />I do have far far larger atlases, though. I've never tried loading them into any of the higher-ended planetariums. Sounds like an interesting project for this evening when I can divert one of the Quads with a fast RAID to the project.<br /><br />*StarryNight is, IMHO, one of the coolest pieces of software around. It may not have the most comprehensive dataset when you start asking it to do "non-standard" stuff, but it is screamingly fast, even on an old laptop. I can't emphasize enough: If you're interested at all in astronomy, you need a good atlas/planetarium software package. StarryNight's "backyard edition" is still on my laptop even though I have the "pro" versions. It's inexpensive, super fast, and incredibly feature rich. Highly recommended! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[adrenalynn]

Ok - how about this?<br /><br />Oct 19, 8000 BCE<br /><br />Including stars to limiting magnitude 23<br />Further including proton stars, emission nebula, etc.<br /><br />http://www.jlrdesigns.com/sol-orion2.jpg <br /><br />[edit to add:]<br />From 1372.6ly from Sol, in orbit around Anilam (middle bright star of Orion's belt) facing Sol. Bright stars seen are Sirius, Capella, Procylon, etc. Same bright stars in our sky - just more inline from that vantage and tighter grouped from that distance. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[R1]

yes, that's wonderful, thanks so much<br /><br />what are the names of the stars near the center? <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[adrenalynn]

Sirius, Regulus, Procylon, Capella (which would be off center, up and left. Should be a bright star up there, I'd have to look at it again), Betelgeuse. <br /><br />[edit] Yup - Capella is up and left at a nearly 45deg angle. Brightest thing up that way. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[R1]

thanks so much for your assistance, Adrenalynn.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I have labeled some of these stars, the link is below, could you or anyone help me <br />know which stars these are that I have marked?<br /><br /><br />http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc283/john777r/sol-orion2C.jpg<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[R1]

Thanks eburacum45.<br />That's quite opposite extremes on the data, I don't understand why, though.<br /><br />I tried to run the 2.0 dataset version (in case it wasn't running on it) but I can't figure out<br />how to run the program with the different data sets. Currently from the starting page it seems to<br />only have about 40 star options in the range 100-999 light yrs.<br /><br />These are really interesting programs, though, and I understand the most up to date datasets are<br />huge and a lot more accurate. I'm also starting to learn more about the starry night programs, though<br />I'm not sure how many years that one can calculate. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[adrenalynn]

I'll go back tonight when I get back from this observing session, and lable all the high-mag stars.<br /><br />I have nearly 400GB of star catalogs. [boggle] I use a lot of astrometics software and good star catalogs are a must. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[adrenalynn]

Here ya go! Oct 23, 8000 BCE - with lables.<br /><br />http://www.jlrdesigns.com/orion-8kbc-stars.jpg <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[adrenalynn]

Mine stretches out a bit further than your box. You'll see outside of your box area you have Rigel. Rigel is contained nearly in the center of the area you boxed on the one I generated. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[R1]

thanks, everyone, this is really a lengthy project, I think the proper motions would<br />matter, given more than 10,000 years, wouldn't it? Here's a link to a nice but short video about the <br />Egypt pyramids, it's a real nice sight right after the 7th minute, when the Milky way<br />and the Nile river meet.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsofKUDXds4<br /><br /><br />Anyway, I may have to go back another 2,500 years or so, and it may from an orbital position. <br /><br />Adrenalynn, your 2nd picture may have been from closer to the right location, in orbit.<br /><br />Anyway I really appreciate all your input as you have time, I hope you find the video interesting too,<br />it's these recent ideas and projects that have me thinking more about all these world- astronomical wonders,<br />and now I think the time to explore is more like 12,500 years ago (thousands of years before what we <br />used to think)<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[R1]

well you're welcome to agree, I used to, myself. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />I do think the sphinx was built long before, though, as many are starting to think<br />from the way it eroded. But when it was built and when the pyramids were built exactly I don't know.<br /><br />But it's a wonderful mystery, more so if you think it's coincidental, and throw in the Nile river matching up to the<br />milky way too into the bag of coincidences, as well as all the geometric sense that is being found.<br /><br />(There is one thought too that the sphinx originally had a different head, or at least not the head it has now, <br />and come to think of it it's also coincidental that a suitable head is seen on Mars, or at least a duplicate,<br /> whether it's naturally made or not. On this one I am still agreeing that it's just a coincidence as of now,<br /> though it's just astronomically phenomenal how many coincidences the coincidence-style subscribers must be finding.)<br /> <br />edit: this thread may be fringing into the highly phenomenal and unexplained here from, this may be<br /> transplanted to phenomena. That is not to say that there's no astronomical science in phenomena, because<br />IMO there is a lot (and vice versa). Personally, I was just exploring wonders with a modicum of pattern recognition,<br />but there's a lot that remains unexplained .<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[adrenalynn]

Humans are stunningly good at recognizing patterns.<br /><br />They are so stunningly good at recognizing patterns that they frequently recognize them even when they don't exist.<br /><br />I'm not saying that that's the case here, just to make triple certain you quadruple check your work. Overlaying on top of simulations, scaling and overlaying the milkyway on top of the Nile, accounting for bank drift, etc.<br /><br />It's really easy to see a great conspiracy of pattern, even as a sceptic. <br /><br />The hardest thing about getting my instrument rating as a pilot was learning to trust my instruments no matter what my gut and butt were telling me. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[R1]

eburacum45,<br /><br />I would think asking a panel of astronomers would be vital.<br /><br />There is no question in my mind that astronomy was extremely important to the scientists<br />of the pyramid era worldwide,no perceptive archeologist would probably deny that,<br />whether or not he or she is reputable yet.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[R1]

<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />also, I need to clarify, I'm not stating as fact that the pyramids were built 12,500 yrs ago,<br />I'm in fact not stating that at all, but the point of my interest is probably<br />from thinking that<br /><br /><br />A) ancient scientists were into astronomy,<br /><br />B) various structures from ancient times have patterns that point<br />to astronomy patterns as they appeared around 10,500 BC (around 12,500 yrs. ago)<br /><br />C) and it's not just the 3 pyramids<br /> <br />so whether they were built around 10,000 BC or 5,000 BC would probably interest<br />the historians and archealogists more than me. I'm more interested by the time to<br />which many of these arrangements point, in terms of astronomy first. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>