A CIVILIZATION on MARS? 1B/200M Years Ago? (Pt. 5)

[telfrow]

<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />It blew on its own. I swear.<br /><br />Honestly, teaching/training/mentoring is something I really love doing. Believe me, this mess is well below my passion for that. It took quite a while for them to show up, so I gave everyone an extended break, and used jumped on the laptop.<br /><br />Really. No, seriously. That's what happened. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

OIC, you guys can post, I dunno how many pages, of 'DataDawg' crap, but we can't say hello in public after not having spoken for a couple of years..... Spare me.<br /><br />You should be happy Stone,,,, It seems Grrr8's 'CAPSLOCK' button is fixed. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[centsworth_II]

I think its good to have GRR8's relationship to the others clear right up front. I'm sure they'll get down to business now. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[telfrow]

We started down that road once...a long time ago...in a thread far, far away, didn't we? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Packet, with all due respect, I will not repost the source. It's there and the fact that you missed it too, speaks volumes.<br /><br />Someone from your side should find and post it..... At least make an effort to prove that someone on your side is paying attention.

 

[telfrow]

Whoa....I didn't say it did, Colin. I was simply stating that we started to discuss the features of Cydonia - including the weathering and erosion mechanisms - a long time ago. And we never got around to finishing it. <br /><br />As for the civilization, I think you know what my position on that is...it was covered when I answered your questions. But the difference in our positions doesn't preclude a thoughtful and civil discussion of the issue. <br /><br />I wish we could have that discussion. I'm very interested in the terrain and features....i.e., the geology, weathering and erosion. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[a_lost_packet_]

<font color="yellow">Maxtheknife - Packet, with all due respect, I will not repost the source. It's there and the fact that you missed it too, speaks volumes. Someone from your side should find and post it..... At least make an effort to prove that someone on your side is paying attention. </font><br /><br />You are being presumptuous sir. Your opportunistic conclusion is false. <b>I</b> didn't miss it. <b>I</b> read it. However, I did not commit it to memory so I could reference it on-the-fly. I thought, mistakenly, that you would have it close at hand and be generous enough to provide the reference when asked politely. After all, it's your material and you should have a faster method than "sifting through the box" of a few hundred posts to find it. <br /><br />It's your type of combative and ill mannered attitude that bogs down these types of threads. See, if you had said "Sure, I don't mind posting it again, here you go." then we could continue and I would have thanked you for your help. Instead, I get insulted when asking you "nicely." I had the feeling you'd turn around and post some scathing remark in regards to someone requesting information from you no matter how nicely you were asked. It seems that you don't deviate from your MO much do you? <br /><br />IF I have the time today/tonight/sometime, then I will do your work for you and try to dig up the reference for those who are requesting it. I'm trying to facilitate progress here while, it seems, you're trying to hamper it. <br /><br />Ya know, every one of your posts isn't solid gold with oodles of people hanging on your every word and committing your every pixel to memory.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Then post it.... <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

 

[maxtheknife]

<font color="yellow">Ya know, every one of your posts isn't solid gold with oodles of people hanging on your every word and committing your every pixel to memory. </font><br /><br />ROFL! No, not every one is solid gold.... <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /> <br /> <br /><br />

 

[telfrow]

Max:<br /><br />Packet's right. <br /><br />Simply posting the link again would have been considerate. How many times have I posted additional images of objects you and Zen have posted, or looked up information, without being asked? <br /><br />And personally, I resent the snide comment about someone from our side paying attention to what you say and what you post. Your post with the source was directed to Jon...no one else. It was a conversation between the two of you...and you have been carrying on the disagreement over the article for a considerable length of time. Packet simply asked you to repost it so <b>he</b> could take a look at it. I would have thought you'd have been happy to repost it - someone from the other side was actually <i>asking</i> for information concerning your position.<br /><br />For me, your response and the attitude you're displaying is disappointing to say the least. I've watched it build over the past few days....in fact, the "attitude" hacked me off pretty badly a few days ago. You could probably tell from the posts.<br /><br />Bottom line: If you can't respond to a simple, civil request with a simple, civil answer, do you really expect any of us to "work" with you? <br /><br />I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case, don't count on me.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

I completely disagree. I have so much more to resent than you do at this point, but I'm still here, aren't I?<br /><br />This isn't the first post Jon has 'missed' or 'ignored', or 'evaded by me. If you all hadn't been posting so much crap and pattin' yourselves on the back..... oh never mind.<br /><br />Zen, feel free to field this one for me. There is a major point to be made here and you have a way of being far more eloquant than I. I'm feelin' angry and that isn't the best way to post.<br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[zavvy]

This isn't a debate.. it's a psychology experiment..

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">This isn't the first post Jon has 'missed' or 'ignored', or 'evaded by me. </font><br /><br />That's not the point, Max. This isn't about your relationship with Jon, or whether or not he answered your questions to your satisfaction. It's about Packet. And it's about being civil. <br /><br />Packet made a civil request for more information. Plain and simple. He wanted to look into what you and Jon were discussing. Your response to Packet was out of line. Again, just posting the information would have resulted in a "thank you." <br /><br />You took the other route. It's sad that you did. <br /><br />You have so much more to resent than I do at this point? I beg to differ...go back and look at the language and the assertions made in the past - what? - seven threads...by you, Zen, Geos, naz, etc. I have every bit as much right to be filled with resentment as you do. But I rose above it and tried to work with you guys anyway.<br /><br />And I'll say it again...I would venture to guess that you've never gotten the degree of cooperation, information, input and debate anywhere else that you've gotten here. So why try and destroy that relationship? Why not just post the information for Packet? Why burn your bridges?<br /><br />So, my friend, I'll adopt the same attitude....and suggest that all other SDC 'old guard Data Dawgs" do the same. And don't complain...you're the one who set the bridges on fire.<br /><br />"Posting so much crap and pattin' yourselves on the back"? We were having fun with it, Max. Remember Zen's blast at me in the Iapetus thread that I had no sense of humor and I was always "on"? That I was the guy who took the fun out of science? Who's that guy now? And remember Zen's defense of his own use of humor? Something to the effect that if he didn't laugh about it, he'd cry? Same goes for us.<br /><br />Feeling angry? Why? Because someone asked you for information? Because of the "Data Dawg" posts? Why not take a deep breath and answer yourse <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

You got that right, Zavvy.

 

[bobw]

I probably did miss something. <br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br />Monuments, Jon.... Monuments. It really doesn't make a difference, does it?<br /><br />Please comment on Fiertek too.... Yet another test that you failed to think of..... Does his analysis lend credence to AOC or not?<br /><br />You're free to elaborate, but please,,,, somewhere in there, directly answer the question.<br /><br />Edit... The Fifth edition of Monuments..<br /><br />Edited by Maxtheknife (06/05/05 09:40 AM)<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />I read that answer during the 4 1/2 hours between the post and the edit. It didn't click that "Monuments" means "The Monuments of Mars: A City on the Edge of Forever by Richard C. Hoagland" Sorry.<br /><br />The best I could find was that it also seems to be a chapter or something in "The Case for the Face: Scientists Examine the Evidence for Alien Artifacts on Mars by Stanley V. McDaniel (Editor), Society for Planetary Seti Research (Corporate Author), Monica Rix Paxson (Editor)" as it said in the google search link at cyberweb1/21stcenturyradio . That was the one I meant when I suggested he wrote it as a lark for a woo-woo book. It looks like that stuff has been "published" a lot. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Thank you, Bob..... thank you.

 

[maxtheknife]

Oh gee, looks like someone else was posting angry.....<br /><br />Next time you want to try and lecture me, Telfrow, <i>don't</i>.<br /><br />How easy it must be for you to have, I dunno, how many friends on board? <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <br /><br />BTW, I hardly ever ask Zen for help. I'm doin' alright with or w/o him.... But I'll take ONE Zen over 50 DataDawgs any day.

 

[telfrow]

Feeling angry? No. That wasn't an angry post. I could write another one, and make it angry if you like. It's was honest open advice. A lecture? Maybe. Maybe it was just friendly advice.<br /><br />This was moving along pretty well, Max, and I was actually enjoying it. But something set you off. I don't know what it was, and I don't really care. <br /><br />You are burning bridges, whether you care to admit it or not. And, given your response to me, you've lost the one "friendly adversary" you had on the board.<br /><br />As for friends on this board...I'll make you a little bet, Max. You get me on the "pay to post" TEM board, where all your friends are, and I guarantee I'll never treat a request for information the way you did with Packet. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">But I'll take ONE Zen over 50 DataDawgs any day.</font><br /><br />I'm sure you would... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[zenonmars]

<font color="yellow">"This isn't a debate.. it's a psychology experiment."</font><br /><br /><i>Actually</i>, zavvy, you are quite right.<br /><br />Now, friends, let's all take a deep breath. <br /><br />I have noticed, over these months, a propensity of mine is to get "spooked" sometimes: to percieve ridicule when, after some considered thought, it dawns on me that the ridicule in question was actually humor, or "chiding" at best.<br /><br />Ya know, what zavvy says is pretty right on. The issues we span here are more than intellectual games. Even more than politics, even more than our religious beliefs, the "sides" we take on these issues go to the very <i>nature</i> of who we are, or who we <i>think</i> we are.<br />They are cemented to what we see as our <b>identity</b>.<br /><br />And we wake up in the morning, and we look in the mirror, and we say, <i>"Ya know, it is so obvious, that stuff I think!"</i> And we look in the mirror, and we say, gosh, yes I made some mistakes in my life, but generally I think I've done pretty well. I <b>passed</b> life's tests, mostly. Figured stuff out.<br /><br />And then we come here and...........<b>oh sweet Jesus!!!</b> And, the "Dawgs" say, my God, these guys are not illiterate! They <i>MUST</i> be brainwashed! Or at least, they must be the biggest ball-busters to come here and foist that crap on us!!! <i>They will not listen to any reason!</i><br /><br />And the TEMers come here, and say, "Gosh these guys are skiddish! They act like we're recruiting for Satanism!! Can't they at least <i>pretend</i> to have an imagination? We pop in here, and talk about ideas that rival <b>SEX</b> in how it ignites our imaginations!! And it is like they are lying in wait for us! They <i>must</i> be planted NASA spies, bent on undoing the damage that Art Bell has done over the years.<br /><br />And no amount of arguing will ever resolve these feelings we all have. The Cydonia "data challenge" was getting close, but notice that not <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Nor will you ever find someone on the TEM board trying to post a pic that, in effect, was trying to flip you the bird.<br /><br />Great words as usual, Zen. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[telfrow]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that one heck of a long time ago? And didn't he explain...and apologize if it offended anyone? Any you're still holding a grudge?<br /><br />Nice post, Zen. MA said about the same thing, in a much simpler way, earlier. I'd agree with it. I was enjoying it...but it changed. <br /><br />And judging from Max's post that followed your statement (a bitter irony, IMHO), the anger is still there and isn't going away anytime soon. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Care to get back on topic?<br /><br />We were talking about margin of error and seeing if the orthorectified Cydonia data is available....whatever the cost may be. <br /><br />BTW, Telfrow.... I do own a machine shop.... lathes, bridgeports, CNC's, etc.... +/-3 means 3 on either side. About that, there can be no debate. All I asked for was 5-7%, therefore, RCH's measurements are still OK. You haven't proven him wrong just yet. The apex remains in the same place, in spite of our margin of error.... How about that?<br /><br />Ortho photos can be obtained from TEM, but I'm sure you all would prefer to get it right from NASA, no? Why don't a few of you email NASA and try? It should be readily availble, right Yevaud?

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">Care to get back on topic?</font><br /><br />No, not really.<br /><br />And here's why:<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Ortho photos can be obtained from TEM, but I'm sure you all would prefer to get it right from NASA, no? Why don't a few of you email NASA and try? It should be readily availble, right Yevaud?</font><br /><br />I'm not going to play games, or waste any more of my time producing illustrations that are going to be dismissed out of hand because they don't use the data you believe supports your case. Will I use that data? Yes. If it's available at TEM, tell me where it is, I'll down load it, and we'll begin. But if you're going to jerk me around with the availability of the data, forget it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Telfrow,,,, I'm not jerking you around. I just want to see if the data actually 'is' available from NASA, as Yevaud says it ought to be. <br /><br />There is a point to the challenge, and it has nothing to do w/ doing more measuring..... I promise.