Astrophysics/Astronomy as a Career

[andyx1205]

I'm an atheist enthusiast that's very interested in Space Science, such as Astrophysics. I'm currently 17 in Grade 12, and am taking Chem/Phys/Math/Calculus/etc in Canada. I will attend University next year and work on getting my doctorate in Physics.<br /><br />I'm a very big fan of Carl Sagan, who was a highly successful popularizer of astronomy, astrophysics, and other natural sciences. Imo the most interesting man to listen to in the past century when talking about Space Science.<br /><br />In the beginning I wanted to become a neurologist or surgeon but over the past couple years I've decided to pursue my career in astrophysics. I'm a big religion enthusiast even though I'm atheist, and know quite a bit about Islam/Christianity/etc. Well, at least more than the average person does, and can understand how people find those religions "inspiring" which is due to the lack of knowledge of other things (that's a different topic).<br /><br />Anyways, I've always been interested in how our Universe works, and how it could possibly have came to be, and how it's so complex. <br /><br />Anyways, I was wondering...what are some career options for me if I try to pursue this career and get my Doctorate at UBC or University of Toronto? (argueably top 2 in Canada). <br /><br />Perhaps I could join a Space Agency? Or start off by transferring to a Professor at one of the top research Universities,etc in the world in the U.S./UK (no offense to Canada, it's space agency even has a smaller budget than India/Germany/Japan/etc).<br /><br />There's just so many more options if you're born in UK or USA, therefore I would like to move to either one. I'm guessing first I would need to have enough research publications to be accepted b Oxford or any other top University in U.S.? I really want to do a lot in my life, and what's better than being in a field that impacts everyone, Science.<br /><br />I'm a big fan of Carl Sagan & Richard Dawkins, though I would say I'm not as stubborn as the latter c

 

[majornature]

Welcome to SDC andyx1205. I don't have the answer cause I'm in college pursuing a Chemistry/Physics...that's right I'm a double major. I'm taking astronomy right now and its a fun class. I want to be an astronomer but Chemistry won me over...<br /><br />I too am a big fan of Carl Sagan. I watch his program every Tuesday on the Science Channel at 8pm central. <br /><br />I'm pretty much interested in how the Universe works and why we can't travel through space...considering I'm from a different galaxy. Can't seem to leave this place...<img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />I'm too am an atheist and agnostic. I don't believe in religion and I don't believe in the invisible man. Ya know what I mean...<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#14ea50"><strong><font size="1">We are born.  We live.  We experiment.  We rot.  We die.  and the whole process starts all over again!  Imagine That!</font><br /><br /><br /><img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /><br /></strong></font> </div>

 

[vandivx]

surgeon or neurologist would make you wealthy and you could make scientific progress on that front too<br /><br />I'd go into astrophysics or physics generally only if I thought I would make some major discovery good for Nobel prize or at least make some impact, otherwise its not worth it for the money you could earn unless you are real enthusiast about science from early years and feel you could make something major in that line and be ok even if that won't happen<br /><br />in the end I suppose if you believe you gonna make some impact then it doesn't really matter what field you go into but it helps to have some naturaly developped interests as you grew up<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[andyx1205]

Thanks for the response vanDivX!<br /><br />To start off, the reason I wanted to become a surgeon or neurologist in the beginning was because they get paid a lot. But when you think of it, unless you have a lot of free time which is rare being a doctor, then the money is useless. Money is a bad inspiration when choosing a career as a doctor, and that is what I concluded.<br /><br />Nonetheless, I must say I have a strong passion in astrophysics. It's not easy getting a Nobel Prize or anything, but guys like Richard Dawkins and Carl Sagan didn't win any Nobel Prizes (though they won many others) but they have quite a lot of publications/books.<br /><br />Seeing TV and how dumb...harsh word...rather ignorant many popular/rich people are, being 17 I could certainly say I know more than them, whether it's to do with science or religion. Well...maybe watching that idiot Bill O'Reilly on FOX made me feel smart, hah (that guy's is hilarious in a sad way, cough evolution is fake he says).<br /><br />But anyways...perhaps my religious side is my inspiration, even though I'm atheist. In my opinion I have a more tolerant view of religion, even Islam (heck more tolerance for Islam than Christianity no offense) than others. I guess my inspiration is to attempt to either prove or disprove the supernatural. Really makes you think how the world is so perfect (the laws that govern the world) and the secret beyond this is just so mind-boggling.<br /><br />Oh...and astrobiology is also very interesting <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <br /><br />*Concerning religion, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Imo religion can be a good thing, but can also be a bad thing. Science has been helped by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Pagans, Atheists,etc. However, today since we know more, there's more atheists coming out. I myself was considering Islam, until I learnt a bit more about Greek philosophers and smacked myself across the head.

 

[alokmohan]

Being atheist not the sole qualification.Carl Sagan is too well known.Read John Wheeler if you want to know the real thing.

 

[andyx1205]

I didn't mean to categorize myself by mentioning that I'm an atheist. I just wanted to show that my inspiration is how the Universe came to be and to know the mysteries that are within it.<br /><br />I've heard of John Wheeler, and after looking him up, I also share his idea that "the laws governing the Universe went through an evolutionary process". <br /><br />Basically, my sole question for this whole thread, was where can I go after recieving a Doctorate in Physics in UBC or University or Toronto? (top 2 in Canada argueably).<br /><br />How can I make my way into working for NASA in the U.S.,etc.

 

[PistolPete]

My best advice to you about choosing a college or university is not to be concerned with name-brand recognition. It seems today that everyone is obsessed with getting into Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Oxford, MIT or some other name brand institute. There are plenty of other good schools doing top research that don't have name brand recognition, at not least outside the field. I would put the educational and research value of any state funded university against any of the more obvious contenders any day of the week. Take for example the University of Hawaii. You would never think that the university of such a laid back state would have such a serious Astrophysics program, but because of the Keck Observatory it's one of the best in the country. I'm in Arizona right now, and you practically can't look at a mountain around here without a major observatory on top of it. There's Kitt Peak west of Tuscon, the Whipple observatory south of Tuscon, and the famous Lowell observatory in beautiful Flagstaff (within driving distance of the Grand Canyon, bonus! (in case you can't tell I love Flagstaff <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> )) just to name a few. This place has got more scopes than you can shake a stick at! My best advice: do a looooot of research on the places that teach what you want to learn. And don't take the stuff that they say on their web sites at face value either. Dig deeper to find the truth.<br /><br />As far as choosing a career, you're doing it for all of the right reasons. You should pick something because you enjoy doing it. I myself am majoring in Film Studies, not because I think I can make a lot of money at it (you don't normally make much money as an independent filmmaker), but because I want to be a storyteller and I love the process of making movies. I have always more than a passing fascination with science as well and am thinking about turning my minor in Physics into a major after I'm done with Film Studies. What I would love to do i <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[vandivx]

"How can I make my way into working for NASA in the U.S.,etc."<br />---<br /><br />I think people make their way into US by starting to study here and in their third or fourth year they do some stint at US university or else go study there as postgraduate students and eventually they end up staying there and get jobs there too, its just an idea you might look into<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[andyx1205]

Thanks for the suggestions guys! How do I possibly attempt to be a Professor/research (start career) at a top research place/University from Canada after getting my Doctorate? Do I have to publish enough papers and be more known at a local place until jump-shipping to somewhere else?<br /><br />And how exactly does NASA recruit for it's astrophysicists,etc?

 

[fatal291]

Will the "usual" methods of getting into NASA change now? They are ending the shuttle program and it seems like it is entering a new era after that. They make it seem as if the Moon then Mars is next, will this cause an entire change of who they hire? Won't they need people who want to go to the moon later to study more advanced things now?

 

[alokmohan]

But mars is a good research topic.You may contact Robert Zubrin.

 

[erioladastra]

"Thanks for the suggestions guys! How do I possibly attempt to be a Professor/research (start career) at a top research place/University from Canada after getting my Doctorate? Do I have to publish enough papers and be more known at a local place until jump-shipping to somewhere else? "<br /><br />As someone who has done both... There are a lot of mottled thoughts in this thread. Let me see if I can help.<br /><br />First, I would only go into it if you are passionate about it. It is freaking hard. Plus jobs are very limited. Money is very limited. You mention becoming a professor at a top place - well that is only after many years of hard work. Many who get an astronomy/astrophys degree never make it that route since there are so few jobs. You would need to do a post doc, then start out at a lower position (depending on school or country it can be assistant professor, instructor...). full professor takes getting tenure and many years beyond that of hard work. Except for a few cases, even then there is not a whole lot of money.<br /><br />Ok, you keep also talking about NASA like places. There are a few places where academics work "for NASA" like at the Space Telescope Science Telescope (HST) or the Joint Institue of Laboratory Astrophysics. However, these are usually soft money and require again a LOT of hard work to keep publishing and getting grants. Many who work for NASA do so as telescope operators or people like at STScI. If you want to work on space probes or manned space ops, you can do something at JPL, though many are engineers. For manned space ops, astrophys is not very useful and actually will disqualify you for many positions (not right but amazingly true).<br /><br />One final thought - publishing is VERY hard. It generally takes years to write a proposal, get data, maybe get some money, analyze it and publish (oh and you don't get paid like a book deal - you PAY to publish your aticles so get lots of grants!). And very rarely does anyone

 

[andyx1205]

Well, it seems like it may be pretty hard to get popular in the Scientific Community.<br /><br />But how exactly did Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins become what they are today? They had gotten their doctorates, and then had a chance to teach at a University and that is where they started their research. <br /><br />Their outspoken opinions on certain things is what made them popular, as they published many books. They weren't necessarily Nobel Prize winners or Einsteins, but popularized Science incredibly. Carl Sagan had his TV Show Series, called the Cosmos which made him popular,etc.<br /><br />I guess it's simply hard work, commitment, and time that helped them become as great as they are?

 

[adrenalynn]

<font color="yellow">There's Kitt Peak west of Tuscon, the Whipple observatory south of Tuscon, and the famous Lowell observatory in beautiful Flagstaff (within driving distance of the Grand Canyon, bonus! (in case you can't tell I love Flagstaff )) just to name a few.</font><br /><br />This is primarily echoing you, PistolPete...<br /><br />I spent my most formative years in Williams, Az. Lowell Observatory (where the <i><b>planet</b></i> Pluto was discovered) was where my love of astronomy first formed and blossomed - I worked there as a jr. docent for five years, as well as with the Museum of Northern Arizona - a world-class archaeological institution. NAU (Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff) has excellent astro* programs. I attended NAU for a couple years before moving to California. Their programs don't get nearly the attention that the south-state universities do though.<br /><br />Kitt Peak has (had? Been awhile) one of the better solar observation platforms in the country, IMHO. But the skies are far darker and more transparent at night with the elevation and low population that Lowell has going for it.<br /><br />One additional advantage to Kitt Peak that really got me started in natural event photography - during the monsoons you can photograph the most amazing lightning storms I've seen anywhere on earth. I've caught upwards of twenty full ground strikes in a single five second exposure! <br /><br />There's a lot to be said for Arizona - including great cost-of-living - the downside is finding work. Flagstaff area is pretty much right out. Southern Arizona is continuously depressed. If I were to do it all again, I'd have spent more time at NAU, finished my two masters there, then transferred to one of the name-brand schools. Of course, if I were to do it all again, I think I might have stuck with the astrophysics track regardless of the work. Computer Science in Silicon Valley has been good to me financially, but there is a definite <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[fatal291]

so wait did you just say taking physics will d/q you from being able to go into space? im sure i read that wrong but trying to make sure

 

[andyx1205]

? I think you read the post wrong

 

[PistolPete]

The critical element that Sagan and Dawkins had was a knowledge of both science and entertainment. That's why the Mythbusters are so popular. Yeah, they may be nerds but they get to blow stuff up. How cool is that? <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> That's why I'm getting an entertainment <i>and</i> a science degree. If I can help inspire a new generation to become "steely-eyed missile men" then I think I will have lived a life fulfilled. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

But scholarship is first point.

 

[andyx1205]

Also, just curious but...<br /><br />How exactly does an author to a best-selling book get paid? For example, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris,etc, basically all of those books on amazon.com.

 

[PistolPete]

AFAIK he or she gets paid a certain predetermined percentage of the profits. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[adrenalynn]

Minus any advances against royalties <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>

 

[majornature]

<font color="yellow">AFAIK</font><br />What does that mean?<br /><br />I don't use acronyms like talkin about it... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#14ea50"><strong><font size="1">We are born.  We live.  We experiment.  We rot.  We die.  and the whole process starts all over again!  Imagine That!</font><br /><br /><br /><img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /><br /></strong></font> </div>

 

[PistolPete]

As far as I know.<br /><br />It took me a long time to learn these acronyms. I usually use www.Netlingo.com if I don't know one. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[fatal291]

what ever happened to Bill Nye The Science Guy? He was my gen's Carl Sagan.. atleast tv wise

 

[andyx1205]

I remember Bill Nye...always watched his videos in Science 10 class.