First contact with aliens could end in colonization and genocide if we don't learn from history

[promytius]

Not vague at all, as stated earlier, a general comment. Not directed at you or any particular member. Now do you understand? Trash? No.

If I may, I read your quote, and I had to think this over, but the Universe is everything, which of course would include imagination. Then I wondered how could my imagination possibly be bigger than the universe, when I'm unaware of 95% of the Universe, limited to .03% of the electromagnetic spectrum, that persuades me that, in trying to imagine something bigger than the Universe is - what is it called - circular logic? For example, my imagination is limited to some amount of "creative speculation" (my term) by my brain capacity, my knowledge, health, memory, DNA, etc. There is a limit to what can be imagined. That limitation, inside of me, is quite tiny; powerful, magnificent, but bigger than all that is? That's quite a stretch, for me. Your quote was provocative for me, and I thank you for the opportunity to give my brain a shake.

 

[Gibsense]

A thought: What if UAPs are deliberate misdirection? Using holographic technology it might be possible to fool us either by an Earth Government or 'them'.
More likely "them". A means to challenge us to discover the capability we have technically.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

It is not really possible to rule out any sort of interaction.

There might even be more than one extraterrestrial species/culture that is observing and/or testing us, and maybe with different motives. We don't even have a way of knowing if extraterrestrials from different origins get along with each other.

While speculation might seem useless, I think it does have the benefit of disrupting what could become "group think" about aliens' motives and probable behaviors.

 

[Gibsense]

The Aliens are advanced AI. They are interested in studying the transition of Biological Intelligence to AI intelligence. To achieve this it is important that 'outside' influence is minimized. However, some AI civilisations find that humans can be useful in investigating at a deeper level than in distant observation.

The kindest approach is to extract those in immediate danger of death for off-planet breeding. Humans and their modified cousins exist throughout the local Galactic Group. There are, however, less convivial intelligences that utilise the nature of our 4-dimensional existence; 4 spatial dimensions in which one dimension hosts the Time Process.

The thing is that you can perm any three of the Four. Different combinations select a different dimension in which the Time process happens. Alternative combinations allow the physics of others to be manipulated. The results are clear to see in our everyday existence and not to be encouraged. So far they remain unacknowledged and long should that be the case, er maybe.....

or maybe not

 

[Gibsense]

The thing is that you can perm any three of the Four.

Actually the process of time occurs radially and utilises all 4 dimensions in so doing, maybe

 

[Dave]

There is speculation and then there is fact. Let's focus on the facts. Credible witnesses have seen on many occasions spacecraft that defy the laws of physics. What is the intent of Intelligent lifeforms? At the moment they simply wish to observe the human race. They wish to remain hidden which they are certainly capable of achieving. Their science is more advanced.

The authority on UAP's is both the DOD and the Pentagon. They have a continued history of lying, covering up and misdirecting the public as to what they know. This of course leads to all kinds of speculation, most of it is misleading. Most credible sightings occur around bodies of water. Navy pilots and commercial pilots appear to deal with this phenomenon at infrequent times. This does not account for all the occurrences that go unreported. The government needs to tell us what they know. We deserve the truth.

It would be an extremely rare event that a crash would occur involving a spacecraft built by an advanced species. The motive of the government is to reverse engineer such a craft. Is the government trying to communicate with other forms of intelligent life? If so, again tell us the truth.

 

[billslugg]

Nothing defies the laws of physics. Place example here. Fuzzy dots on a TV screen don't count.

 

[Dave]

Stop me if you heard this one.
One day a farmer was sitting on his couch listening to music. Suddenly the neighbor's kid comes running in.
"Mr. Jones we have to hide," Billy screamed. "Pigs are flying outside!"
Mr. Jones looked annoyed. " Go play with Tom. He's in his room."
Just then, another of the neighbors kids burst in. "Cows are flying outside with chickens Mr. Jones what can we do!?" He never knew young Mary to lie. He will have to tell his neighbor about this outlandish behavior.
Next the neighbor came rushing in. "Jones are you nuts? Take off those headphones, a tornado is almost on top of us."

There is no reason, not one good reason to disbelieve a credible witness. Every single person should believe a credible witness. It is common sense.

 

[Classical Motion]

Only the neighbors that said tornado was credible. The first two kids were just gullible.

 

[billslugg]

I sincerely believe credible witnesses sincerely believe what they saw was an extraterrestrial vehicle.

 

[MDH]

I can't remember who said it, but I do recall a tongue in cheek quote "the best evidence of intelligent extra-terrestrial life is the fact that they haven't contacted us". From an evolutionary perspective, humans have been shaped by our environment to be intelligent, aggressive, adaptable and frequently violent. To a degree, sociologically speaking we're getting our act together, we're attempting to take better care of our planet and not murder each other as frequently. However this is a slow process and I believe we've got a long row to hoe (sociologically) before any intelligent alien civilization would really want much to do with us. Also, IMO, the question posed in this article, basically, is it ethical to listen for evidence of alien life?" is utterly asinine, and probably why soft science types don't get invited to the SETI table. It's self evident that intelligent, space faring life will be curious about space, otherwise there would be little drive to get off the surface of a planet in the first place. It's entirely natural for any curious sapient entity to wonder if it is all alone and to look for evidence of other life. As a species, we've been blasting stray electromagnetic signals into space for well over a century. Listening for similar activity by other civilizations does not constitute surveillance anymore than me turning on a shortwave radio and tuning up and down the bands looking for something interesting from another country constitutes surveillance. If you don't want people listening, don't broadcast in the clear.

 

[promytius]

Isn't it fair to say that anything with energy "broadcasts"? "Empty" outer space is filled with broadcast energies.
If the question is, as you stated, is it ethical to listen, I agree that is utterly asinine to ask.
If the question is, do aliens exist, this is a self-answering one: of course. I can absolutely name a known alien planet: Earth. It must be the height of hubris to think we are alone in an infinite universe, or even a somewhat smaller universe. Of course there's other lifeforms. Really, really smart ones too.
In fact, there's a historical log of contact; a long, extensive, well-documented catalog of encounters with non-earthlings. Many countries have had direct contact with aliens. We've filmed them, photographed them, tracked them on radar, seen them attend rocket launches, overpower military installations, fly over major cities, fly over the Capitol, appear in the skies of virtually every country on Earth.
Here is where I get flummoxed: experts, scientists, professionals, specialists, and a plethora of common folk have had direct experiences. Hundreds of thousands of them. Yet, there is a large group of intelligent people in denial that keep saying there's no proof. No matter how detailed, no matter how well-documented, no matter how many pictures and films and digital records are offered, they are still "unidentified" - mysteries in the sky.
This is a childish and destructive viewpoint. The sooner we accept that the overwhelming evidence makes it abundantly clear that we have been and are in continuous contact with alien species. There is no doubt. No doubt. As a species, we need to admit this, open this up to disclosure of the additional evidence, experience, interactions and materials of non-terrestrial origin.
Of course we're not alone; never have been. Perhaps it has something to do with the difficulty of the human brain to comprehend how immense the universe is; we cannot grasp it, it's theoretical, vague, incomprehensible. We simply don't have the brainpower to comprehend the distances. There’s room for more than we could, even collectively, imagine. The governments of the world are evolving their approaches, as are we, and sooner than later, we're all going to reach a consensus: that they're here already.
I've offered no specific evidence here because I wanted to use the space to state an overview. We've got the evidence, it's all right out there in the public arena, anyone can access it. Perhaps it's simply fear that keeps the truth from general verification; governments are coveting their own intelligence on aliens for political/military reasons; so we'll have to pry it out of their clenched fists; or we can simply wait for the public arrival of our fellow aliens, or we can keep pushing for full disclosures. Although there is the idea that the aliens are in charge, and they will decide when and where and how;perhaps we are already well along in their plans for disclosure. I cannot think of a more profound disclosure.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

More assertions that the evidence exists, without offering any, falls flat.

Show us the "evidence". And, I don't mean a "tic tac" on a video screen. Something physical. Either a machine we can't build ourselves or something biological that is not based on Earth DNA.

 

[billslugg]

All testimony can be dismissed as gold digging. All photos can be dismissed as fake. All physical objects can be dismissed as fake until the point they have undergone isotopic analysis. So far, that has not been done.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

Bill,

Even isotopic analysis is not that convincing for something simple to make, such as a sword. There are already examples of metals being used by ancient civilizations that seem to have been fabricated on Earth using materials from meteorites.

Or, perhaps an alien "god" just handed that sword to an ancient Egyptian? Probably not.

Now, show me a light sabre with an extremely high iridium content, and we can talk.

 

[Gibsense]

Perhaps it's simply fear

Fear and Greed are the two mega motivators.

 

[Gibsense]

Now, show me a light sabre with an extremely high iridium content, and we can talk.

That illustrates the point. It was a nice turn of phrase with a smile attached but impossible to accomplish. In other words "It doesn't matter how much evidence or how good it is I will always ask for more and deny anything was proof"

 

[Unclear Engineer]

That illustrates the point. It was a nice turn of phrase with a smile attached but impossible to accomplish. In other words "It doesn't matter how much evidence or how good it is I will always ask for more and deny anything was proof"

Actually, it is the other way around. There have been so many exposed fakes that we know that we need to be extremely careful what evidence we accept.

The idea that we can't explain something with scientific rigor does not logically result in the conclusion that we must accept somebody's unsupported explanation of what it "must be" because that is what they want it to be.

 

[promytius]

More assertions that the evidence exists, without offering any, falls flat.

Show us the "evidence". And, I don't mean a "tic tac" on a video screen. Something physical. Either a machine we can't build ourselves or something biological that is not based on Earth DNA.

See, this is just the kind of reaction I mean. Something physical? What were the tic tacs, other than physical?