Images of Mars -- Part Three

[JonClarke]

Words fail me! It's like flying at low altitude in a small plane over Mars. I feel like I could reach out and touch the surface. This is going to revolutionise our undersanding of the surface of Mars.<br /><br />Maybe we <b>will</b> find those lost probes - Mars 2, 3, 6, MPL, DS2A & B, Beagle. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[bonzelite]

<font color="yellow"><br />Words fail me! It's like flying at low altitude in a small plane over Mars. I feel like I could reach out and touch the surface. This is going to revolutionise our undersanding of the surface of Mars. <br /><br />Maybe we will find those lost probes - Mars 2, 3, 6, MPL, DS2A & B, Beagle.</font><br /><br />exactly yes. in one blow MRO has taken our ability to see another world FAR beyond what we have been able to experience to date. <br /><br />and this is merely the beginning of it's primary mission. you could see people having a picnic down there were they able to do such a thing. the clarity is overwhelmingly clear and almost scary. welcome to Martian HDTV.

 

[JonClarke]

<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Nice analogy. <br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">But I was actually referring to this "roundish" feature that appears just to <br />the left of the "Duck Bay" label in this labeled, color image:<font color="white"><br /><br />Hopefully this helps.</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">Words fail me! It's like flying at low altitude in a small plane over Mars.<font color="white"><br /><br />I agree, there is a great advantage to explore from above and on the surface <br />at the same time. Which brings me to this point - why do JPL spend 100's of millions of <br />dollars on Mars airplanes when they have to fly 600 kilometers per hours to stay airborne <br />and their life expectancy is 6 hours??? <br /><br />See http://arrow-space-innovations.com/index.html for a better answer.<br /><br />_______________________<br /><br />Below is a image of some freshly uncovered smooth rounded rocks, on Earth the most likely<br /> explanation would be associated with alluvial type flow???</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P213586544EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

Here is a section of the above image from the Microscopic imager colorized from a single frame filter.<br /><br />1M213586802EFF76POP2936M2M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[vonster]

rib,<br /><br />Thanks again so much for these historic images in one place for comment and all the filtering and zooming you are doing. <br /><br />Really a service for the world IMO .. breathtaking<br /><br />RE: the two last images (starting with P213586544EL5M1)<br /><br />1 - what is the cause of the white discoloration in the crater photo 1P213586544EL5M1 ... is that a result of the limits of resolution of the original? and<br /><br />2 - What are we looking at specifically in this last photo - where did you zoom to (can you show as an inset if not too much trouble) Thank you<br /><br />/.

 

[vonster]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br />Below is a image of some freshly uncovered smooth rounded rocks, on Earth the most likely<br />explanation would be associated with alluvial type flow??<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />yes im really curious if there are any expert / informed opinions about that, <br /><br />is that lava - or wind erosion - caused or something else entirely ... ?<br /><br />.

 

[exoscientist]

In the friday, Oct. 6 news conference on the MER rovers, there was mentioned a linear feature in Victoria crater that may be a dike. <br />It's mentioned about 10 1/2 minutes into the briefing during a simulated fly-over of the rim of the crater.<br /><br />Mars Rover News Briefing. <br />http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1055<br /><br />Here's an image of it posted to the Unmannedspaceflight.com board:<br /> <br />http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=7998<br /><br />A dike is a solidified portion of lava that protrudes into softer rock. It becomes visible when the softer rock erodes away. There are many examples of dikes in Crater Lake, as with other collapsed volcanic craters.<br /><br />Phanton Ship dike in Crater Lake. <br />http://www.billgass.com/Crater%20Lake_files/image004.jpg <br />Crater Lake. <br />http://www.billgass.com/Crater%20Lake.htm<br /><br /><br />Crater Lake and Phantom Ship; Crater Lake National Park, Oregon. <br />http://www.viewfindersnw.com/photos/pnbf102.jpg <br />http://www.viewfindersnw.com/?image=pnbf102<br /><br /><br />If this feature, is a dike that would support the idea that Victoria crater is a collapsed volcanic crater.<br /><br /><br />Bob Clark<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<i>I agree, there is a great advantage to explore from above and on the surface<br />at the same time. Which brings me to this point - why do JPL spend 100's of millions of dollars on Mars airplanes when they have to fly 600 kilometers per hours to stay airborne and their life expectancy is 6 hours??? </i><br /><br />That is one of the many reasons why no Mars aircraft proposal have got off the ground. Another reason is that they have to transmit of their data in real time, with all the power and bandwidth issues this raises.<br /><br /><i>Below is a image of some freshly uncovered smooth rounded rocks, on Earth the most likely<br />explanation would be associated with alluvial type flow???</i><br /><br />There is no sign of an inlet or outlet, so fluvial throughflow or groundwater discharge is extremely unlikely. A more likely explanation is that weathering or perhaps sandblasting by wind-borne particles has rounded the surfaces. <br /><br />Jon<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

It's a bit early to be calling it a ****. it could be a fracture, filled or unfilled, with or without wall induration. It could be a fault, with or without infill and induration. Even dykes come in two types, igenous or sedimentary. yetr another possibility is that it is a nedding plane, upturned by the impact. At this stage we don't know beyond saying it is a linear feature, probably structural in origin.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

This is a nice image of Cape Verde from the rover web site. Note the large scale, low angle cross beds in the cliff. This indicates a well indurated or cohesive sandstone, possibly either fluvial or aeolian. <br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[exoscientist]

Thanks for that last Microscopic Imager image, rlb2.<br /> It has the look of vesicular basalt, or perhaps an ignimbrite, which is formed of compacted volcanic ash:<br /><br />Image:Ignimbrite.jpg<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ignimbrite.jpg<br /><br /> Here is another version of that MI image using a different color scheme:<br /><br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/hortonheardawho/265417910/in/photostream/<br /><br /><br /> Bob Clark<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">1 - what is the cause of the white discoloration in the crater photo 1P213586544EL5M1<font color="white"><br /><br />I would guess that there is a higher amount of salts present in that layer causing that whitish look. The images may be too bright from the reflectivity of the sun and the over exposure from the camera when taking the image. <br /><br /><font color="orange">What are we looking at specifically in this last photo<font color="white"><br /><br />Image No.1M213586802EFF76POP2936M2M1 is an image taken with one filter of the <br />flat spot in the three filter RGB image No. 1P213586544EL5M1.<br /></font></font></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">In the friday, Oct. 6 news conference on the MER rovers, there was <br />mentioned a linear feature in Victoria crater that may be a dike.<font color="white"><br /><br />See image below for a sharpened image. <br /><br />I visited Crater Lake several times; I use to live in the Portland area, I live <br />in the Phoenix Arizona area now.I was about 3 miles south of Cougar Washington <br />when Mt ST Helens blew, I took super 8 movie camera shots of it when it went <br />off and later gave copies to the USGS, if I was on the other side I would have <br />been covered in about 50 feet of ash.<br /><br />Keep up the honest guessing about volcanoes although I don't totally agree with you <br />on this. In the Martian environment, about 0.01 Earths air density, a volcano would be very <br />explosive. That’s what gives rockets an extra boost when it is cleared out of most of <br />the earth’s atmosphere; heated water vapor is very explosive in a 7 milllibar atmosphere.<br /> <br />The moon's craters before we brought back moon rocks were thought to be all volcanic <br />origin. On Mars I could see the reverse thing happening where we mistakenly think that <br />all the craters are made by impact, however the scientific instruments, although <br />there are some gray areas to be concerned about - should be able to help solve that <br />equation. <br /><br />Geologist like Jon Clarke could probably tell the difference today just by looking at a close-up <br />of it, like the image just provided by MRO. For instance does it have a central dome or <br />not - don't know if this applies to all volcanic craters especially the one's that <br />may have been under water.</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">That is one of the many reasons why no Mars aircraft proposal have <br />got off the ground. Another reason is that they have to transmit of their data <br />in real time, with all the power and bandwidth issues this raises.<font color="white"><br /><br />One of the proposals they had was to parachute the recorded data with <br />a soft landing on the surface to transmit it back later on. That is more mass to fly. <br /><br />All that research JPL did with balloons is a far better idea. If you visited the website <br />I gave you above, http://arrow-space-innovations.com/index.html<br />you would see that the balloon can be easily kept close to the surface where some <br />of the ballast and extra mass can be located on the ground. Powered by the wind <br />it can theoretically travel for over 2400 kilometers in a three week period using the <br />wind speed data extrapolated out of Viking 1 and II and Pathfinder missions. With a <br />supperpressure / solar balloon combination the mission could last for over 300 sol's.<br /></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

2P212650358EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[JonClarke]

I think balloons are definitely a goer for Mars, and there are a number of different approaches that could be fruitful. Spot geochemical analyses would be useful with a balloon-snake combination, as well as plotting wind directions with a constant pressure balloon. Olbique imagery from these would be certainly sexy and of considerable public interest. I know you have put a lot of work into this idea.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<i>Geologist like Jon Clarke could probably tell the difference today just by looking at a close-up of it, like the image just provided by MRO. For instance does it have a central dome or not - don't know if this applies to all volcanic craters especially the one's that may have been under water.</i><br /><br />Thanks for the vote of confidence..... <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />We know from the Moon that both explosive and effusive (non-explosive) volcanism can coexist in a vaccum, so we should see examples of both on Mars. Alba Patera is thought to be a huge inverse volcanco formed largely by exposive processes. other volcanoes like Olympus Mons are dominated by flows. <br /><br />As for underwater volcanism, HiRISE has small enough resolution for us to see pillows, I think, which are the most characteristic features of subaqueous eruptions. Some flat-topped volanic edifices are also associated with subaqueous processes too<br /><br />Jon. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[robnissen]

Duplicate post deleted.

 

[robnissen]

I hope I'm not showing my ignorance, but doesn't the EXTREMELY low atmospheric pressure on Mars make balloons very problematic? Other than temperature issues, balloons on Venus or Titan seem like an excellent idea, but will they really work on Mars?

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">but doesn't the EXTREMELY low atmospheric pressure on Mars make balloons very problematic?<font color="white"> <br /><br />On Earth we have been launching balloons up past Mars average surface <br />air density since the fifties.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">The altitude record for manned balloons is 34668 meters. It was <br />made by Malcolm D. Ross and Victor E. Prather over the Gulf of Mexico in 1961.<br />The altitude record for unmanned balloons is (1991 edition of Guinness Book) <br />51.8 kilometers<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloons<br /></font></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">Olbique imagery from these would be certainly sexy and of considerable public interest. I know you have put a lot of work into this idea.<font color="white"><br /><br />ESA thinks that Balloon exploration mission is a priority see today’s just released update on exploring Venus in 2013 http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=35987<br /><br />I gave a presentation at the Mars Society Conference in 2003 about the Windsurfer – wind riding rover see abstract at:<br /><br />http://homepage.mac.com/fcrossman/Marspapers/abstr/Bennett_2003abstr.htm<br /><br />I gave two presentations in 2005 at the Mars Society Conference in Boulder Colorado, one about process used to come-up with the images that I processed on the MER rover's and another one using advanced methods with true color high-resolution digital imaging cameras for commercial use.<br /> <br />Commercial use would include share partnerships with some of these main players - NASA, JPL, ESA, Boeing/Lockheed, transmitting receiver operators and commercial customers such as Disney studios, Universal studios etc - to develop rides based on actual footage shot using a wind-riding device such as the Windsurfer on Mars. Other Commercial sponsors could include fast food chains, retail sales, and internet companies such as space.com who show real time images on their websites from Mars. The commercial list can be a long one for the first one to use movie quality images beamed back from Mars such as Movie studios incorporating them into their movies – even 3D color imaging and IMAX type movies.<br />In early 2006 Disney’s new IMAX film was released which use far less quality images that can be extracted from Mars: <font color="orange"> Roving Mars, set to open nationwide on Jan. 27, chronicles the exploits of N</font></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>