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mytheory

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I would like to know if any scientists have ever looked into the possibility that galaxies are formed the way they are because of the black holes within them. I've heard many times that black holes tend to be found in the center of galaxies, what if galaxies appear the way they do because singel mega-black holes are sucking in entire galxies. If you really think about it most galaxies appear as if they are being flushed or forced into a center point, just like a toilet bowl sucks all of it's contents down and away into one center point. Maybe everything in the universe including our solar system is being sucked into a center point, and the earth is heating up because it is being pulled into our sun.... I know I sound crazy but I've been thinking about this for a while now and I wanted to share this with someone else! thanks for reading -alex <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <span style="font-weight:bold" class="Apple-style-span">@LEX</span> </div>
 
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ashish27

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hey alex!<br />your theory sounds great except for the last part. the earth is not heating up because of presence of black holes, its heating up because greenhouse gases like CO2 and SO2 are slowly covering up the atmospehere thus preventing heat from sunlight to escape into space. <br />As for black holes sucking in galaxies, yes they do over a period of millions of years.
 
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adrenalynn

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Or it may or may not be heating-up due to normal climate fluctuations. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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doubletruncation

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Hi alex,<br /><br />The connection between black holes and galaxies is something that a lot of people are thinking about nowadays. <br /><br />Regarding your specific hypothesis (that the black holes are sucking the galaxy into its position, which is perhaps one way of saying that the black hole is influencing the rest of the galaxy gravitationally), keep in mind that the black holes at the centers of galaxies are not massive enough to have a direct gravitational influence on most of the rest of the galaxy. The mass of the black hole at the center of our galaxy is a few million times the mass of the sun, whereas the mass of all the stars interior to our orbit is a few hundred billion times the mass of the sun - the stars and the dark matter halo (not the same thing as the supermassive black hole) really dominate the gravity out at the location of the sun. Also note that giant elliptical galaxies often have the biggest black holes at their centers - these galaxies don't look like they're being flushed away the way that spirals might. Finally note that in spiral galaxies only the youngest stars and the gas follow the spiral pattern, older stars like the sun that have been around for more than a few hundred million years are randomly distributed in the disk of the galaxy. If you're interested in how these spiral patterns come about, google "galaxy spiral density waves".<br /><br />Anyway, there is a very interesting tight correlation between the mass of the supermassive black hole in the center of a galaxy and the mass of the bulge of its host galaxy. This is called the M-sigma relationship (named for the variables used to represent the mass of the black hole, and an indicator for the mass of the bulge respectively). People think that this correlation is telling us something important about the joint evolution of galaxies and their central black holes. There are various theories for how this relationship comes about. Many of these theories make use of the apparent fact tha <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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mytheory

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Hi thanks for responding to what I wrote. I enjoyed reading what you had to write. In regards to what you were saying about the mass of black holes and the light that comes from quasars shooting out of these black holes. How does one begin to calculate the mass of one of these holes, if we don't know for certain that there is even anything inside of them. We don't know what happens to the millions of stars and planets that get pulled into them or if that mass even remains intact once it reaches event horizon or worse the actual hole. Plus how does light from quasars have mass, I thought light was just a thing that traveled through out the universe quicker then anything and did not hold any mass like stars do. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <span style="font-weight:bold" class="Apple-style-span">@LEX</span> </div>
 
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mytheory

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I added the part about the earth getting closser to the sun and heating up at the end and should have left it out. I feel that humans have been recording tempatures for to short a time to know what's a normal temp and what's not at any given time. We may think that the last ice age happend several thousand years ago, but there's is no way to figure out when or if the next one will ever happen. We need to recored possibly hundreds of more ice ages before we can even begin to assume anything about this world and how it works. It comes down to having data and we just don't have enough yet! we're to young and have only recently become aware of ourselves and our place in this blackness. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <span style="font-weight:bold" class="Apple-style-span">@LEX</span> </div>
 
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majornature

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Too bad you can't see it up close and personal... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#14ea50"><strong><font size="1">We are born.  We live.  We experiment.  We rot.  We die.  and the whole process starts all over again!  Imagine That!</font><br /><br /><br /><img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /><br /></strong></font> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

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<font color="yellow"><br />I feel that humans have been recording tempatures for to short a time to know what's a normal temp and what's not at any given time. </font><br /><br />Bingo!<br /><br />Now, back to the black hole thingie. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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doubletruncation

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<font color="yellow"><br />Hi thanks for responding to what I wrote. I enjoyed reading what you had to write. In regards to what you were saying about the mass of black holes and the light that comes from quasars shooting out of these black holes. How does one begin to calculate the mass of one of these holes, if we don't know for certain that there is even anything inside of them. We don't know what happens to the millions of stars and planets that get pulled into them or if that mass even remains intact once it reaches event horizon or worse the actual hole. Plus how does light from quasars have mass, I thought light was just a thing that traveled through out the universe quicker then anything and did not hold any mass like stars do.<br /></font><br /><br />For the black hole at the center of the milky way people can measure the mass by tracking the orbits of individual stars (see for example: http://www.mpe.mpg.de/ir/GC/prop.html ). People then can conclude that there is some ~1E6 solar mass object contained within a radius of ~0.01 pc that is not due to anything like stars etc. People hypothesize that there's a black hole there as no one can think of anything that could remain that dense and not collapse into a black hole.<br /><br />For other galaxies it's not so straightforward because you can't resolve individual stars (other galaxies are too far away). What people do then is measure the spread (dispersion) in the line of sight velocities of stars at the center using spectra/doppler shift. This spread is related to how much mass is interior to the stars' orbits. At the very center of galaxies people see a little peak in this dispersion that is higher than what they expect due to stars (the star light doesn't show a little peak there relative to the rest of the galaxy). <br /><br />You're right that light doesn't have mass, but it does have energy and can exert pressure. In particular, if the <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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emperor_of_localgroup

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I must say, it is an interesting theory. Because I have always wondered about the shapes of most galaxies, the good old spiral shapes. The shape will remind any one of spinning water about a center. And if the center is a drainage (blackhole or something sucking in), the shape makes more sense.<br /><br />But a proof of your theory wont be difficult, all we have to do is measure the distances between the galaxy center and stars in the galalxy, specially the 'inner stars'. If the distance is found to be decreasing, you get the Nobel. The distances of outer stars, such as our solar system, may be decreasing too slowly to detect. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Earth is Boring</strong></font> </div>
 
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R1

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what if the gravitational time dilation near the supermassive black holes is actually slowing time a whole<br />lot in those regions, giving us a false reading on the orbiting stars?<br /><br />maybe we have the measurements inaccurately when you include slow time, <br />and actually the black holes would then have more gravity than they appear to have.<br /><br />What if they do have more gravity than we thought at first, would this at least cancel part<br />of the need for dark matter?<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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Black holes don't really suck anything in any more than any other similar masses.<br />The only thing black holes do is concentrate the mass into a very small space. But outside the immediate area, whether it's a black hole or a million stars makes no difference as far as thebgracitational effects.<br /><br />BTW welcome to Space.com mytheory! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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The mass of a black hole can be calculated by it's gravitational effects.<br />That's why we know the mass of the black hole particularly well, since we can actually see individual stars in orbits around it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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mytheory

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thank you for welcoming me to this site! It's nice to be able to discuss my thoughts here with others! You're correct we do see stars rotating around black holes, but I bet if we observe one of these stars long enough it would vanish in to the center of these black holes. I would like to know where do these objects go, and how could such a small space hold such a large volume of planets , stars etc? The only explanation I can think of is that they are disapearing to an unknown place and time. I beleive that unless humans figure out how to travel fast enough to escape our own space and time out of our solar system and this galaxy, we will eventualy be pulled into the center of the milky way. what ya think? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <span style="font-weight:bold" class="Apple-style-span">@LEX</span> </div>
 
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mytheory

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I think you have the right idea when speaking about black holes altering time and possibly space. If my theory was correct, this would explain where all the missing matter has gone, and throw this whole black matter theory out the window! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <span style="font-weight:bold" class="Apple-style-span">@LEX</span> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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Just to clear up your misconception. Dark matter is not missing at all. In fact, the concept was created because there are gravitational effects from matter where we can't detect anything. So it's not missing, it's just that we can't see matter that we know must be there. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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lukman

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Infact if we are at a certain distance to a black hole, what limit is that i dont remember, we will not be sucked in at all. Also, as time goes by, earth is getting farther from sun everytime, not closer. right? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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derekmcd

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"<i>Also, as time goes by, earth is getting farther from sun everytime, not closer. right?</i>"<br /><br />You are correct. I was going to point this out. Tidal effects are the cause of this, albiet very, very, very slow. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>
 
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derekmcd

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"<i>what if the gravitational time dilation near the supermassive black holes is actually slowing time a whole lot in those regions, giving us a false reading on the orbiting stars?</i>"<br /><br />I would think unless they are <i><b>extremly</b></i> (as in right next to it) close to the event horizon, any time dilation would be statistically insignificant. I believe most galactic black holes have cleared out their neighborhood so to speak and are no longer accreting much matter (if any). The stars orbiting these black holes are not really that close to it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>
 
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R1

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my thought on things getting scattered is that the escape velocity of the system would<br />still have a major role, in fact until recently it was thought that the observable universe would<br />eventually contract, were it not for the dark energy and /or discovery that large empty spacetime<br />expands<br /><br />another thought is that gravity travels to infinity, like an asymptote that never reaches zero, so<br />I still think eventually all galaxies will go down a drain in the center <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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emperor_of_localgroup

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Why does it have to be a blackhole? Why cant we say a radially attacting force/object/thing/"????" at the center of the galaxy is 'sucking in' all stars giving the shape of a galaxy. If blackhole cant suck in objects from beyond a certain distance, lets keep blackhole aside for a while and make some observation to find out if distances of stars from the center actually decrease or not. <br /><br />But my guess is even if there is a decrease in distance, the rate of decrease is so low we wont be able to detect it in human species lifetime. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Earth is Boring</strong></font> </div>
 
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mytheory

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those gravitational effects you speak of may be old black holes that have finished "eating" everything around them. How do you see a black hole that isn't pulling in anything anymore, you can't right? It's just a black hole against the black background of space... there are huge pockets of space in the universe that have nothing around them that can't be explained... these could be black holes that have finished there job... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <span style="font-weight:bold" class="Apple-style-span">@LEX</span> </div>
 
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mytheory

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Let's say earth is retreating from the sun like the moon is from earth, does this mean that earth is traveling away from the center of the galaxy? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <span style="font-weight:bold" class="Apple-style-span">@LEX</span> </div>
 
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mytheory

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If you fill a bath tub full of water, put a rubber ball on the surface of the water at the furthest possible point from the drain and then pull the drain plug, what happens?the ball gets closer and closer at an increasing speed. So even if a solar system is on the outer most spiral arm of a galaxy, you might be having forces pulling on your planet and not know it, until it's to late. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <span style="font-weight:bold" class="Apple-style-span">@LEX</span> </div>
 
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