Phoenix surface mission

silylene old · Jun 21, 2008

[QUOTEThree cheers for??? Posted by rlb2[/QUOTE]rlb2 - yes you called this one a couple days beforehand ! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function. </div> </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Jun 21, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Jon check this out, an Time lapse animated video  that I made form images taken with the microscopic imager that I am showing on YouTube here:http://youtube.com/watch?v=QnrY9OSSFRgNote this animation I did was taken from Images 233223main_OS004EFF896565821_11040MRM1 thru 233267main_OS004EFF896566155_11040MBM1 all the images were sequenced on their timeline from the first one to the last one. Note at the bottom lower left in between the shadows a movement. ...Posted by rlb2</DIV>It looks to me as most of that "movement" has to do with the difference in shadows from one frame to another.  I'm using the straightish shadow coming from a surface feature (a few inches, mabye?) in the upper left-hand corner as a referrence when visually comparing the frames Could you help me by providing a link to the specific images you used?  I know, I should be able to find them myself but I want to be sure I get it right the first time. I'd like to see some higher-res imagery of that area because one doesn't look explainable simply by a change in shadow angle. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

baulten · Jun 22, 2008

I'm thinking that the "worm" is just difference in lighting and shadows.  It's certainly a bit interesting, though.

rlb2 · Jun 22, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Three cheers for??? Posted by rlb2</DIV>rlb2 - yes you called this one a couple days beforehand ! Posted by silylene</DIV> Thanks. For several years I tried the same thing at the Spirit and Opportunities sites, without the same effect. The white stuff there was salt, here it is much different. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Jun 22, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>a_lost_packet_wrote- It looks to me as most of that "movement" has to do with the difference in shadows from one frame to another.  Could you help me by providing a link to the specific images you used? </DIV>Rlb2 writes - I think the Worm-like video animation needs confirmation from more observations, no doubt. I don’t think it is all shadows; however some of it might be. In the animation I darkened the original a bit because most of the images are too bright. Below is an unedited cropped composite of all the images listed above in sequence. You can find all the Microscopic images here:  <span style="color

a_lost_packet_ · Jun 22, 2008

Thanks, looking at them now.  While I was opening them, I converted them to a Flash animation which can be found here: http://www.zshare.net/flash/140388723809779c/(Being a flash animation, it's easier for the user to control the frames, go back and forth, etc.) Interesting.  The strangest part isn't the "movement" of the object in question.  It's the seeming counter-movement/return to a direction other than the original "movement."  Granted, this may be able to be explained by something else besides "life."  The shadows certainly play a part.  Perhaps there could have been some vibration or something?  Static effect?  What's the resolution of these images?  What "size" area are we talking about here?**Note: The NASA page on the Optical Microscope says imagery measures around 2x1mm.  Is that what we are looking at in these shots?  If so, couldn't there be some very small scale dynamics going on here which appear to mimic something we might "expect" to see on the macro scale? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

centsworth_II · Jun 22, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Rlb2 writes - I think the Worm-like video animation needs confirmation from more observations... Posted by rlb2</DIV> If there are worms everywhere you look (as apparently there are), the signal for organics will be off the chart when the TEGA results for the first sample are released. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

silylene old · Jun 22, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If there are worms everywhere you look (as apparently there are), the signal for organics will be off the chart when the TEGA results for the first sample are released. Posted by centsworth_II</DIV> Most likely the 'worm' is some type of fiber which fell from the lander onto the microscope plate and adhered on one end only, and the wind is moving it around.So my question is (not being an expert on the lander construction), what are the possible sources of man-made fibers which could have fallen off the lander?  Are there any thermal blankets, insulation, or flexible fiber jackets around any wires or cabling or joints?  Would a fiber from any of these be the right size to account for what is observed here? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function. </div> </div>

JonClarke · Jun 22, 2008

Any idea of the sze of the "worm"?Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Jun 22, 2008

Am I correct in seeing that there's nothing downloaded for Sol 27?Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 22, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Am I correct in seeing that there's nothing downloaded for Sol 27?Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV> Nothing I've seen so far, but I (we) will be checking. I think the blog on the UofA site mentioned something about a holiday (solstice? or just a chance for a break?) The team is now 1/2 human day out of phase with the rest of us. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jun 22, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Nothing I've seen so far, but I (we) will be checking. I think the blog on the UofA site mentioned something about a holiday (solstice? or just a chance for a break?) The team is now 1/2 human day out of phase with the rest of us. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Thanks Wayne, Could be, I'm hoping it is because no one is there to update the sites, rather than that there is a problem. Yes that makes sense. Of course 27 x 37 minutes = 999 minutes or 16 hours, 39 minutes out of synch, yes that's pretty screwy to anyone's circadian rhythm. Mind you, this is good practice for when humans eventually go. I wonder if they will stick with Mars time or like the MER teams, reverted to the normal 24 hour Earth time after so many sols?Yes of course it was our Solstice yesterday & the Martian one is coming up on Tuesday, so quiet a strnge co-incidnece that they are only three days apart & the same solstices too.I just worried a bit that something might have gone wrong, but now I do remember something about some time being taken out. They deserve it. No denying that what so ever.EDITED: Yes just cheched their blog, I don't usually look at that, just the science & downloding images. I see they have the Martian Solstice on Wednesday, where as my data shows Tuesday????????? Any way it does not matter too much. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

l3p3r · Jun 22, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Rlb2 writes - I think the Worm-like video animation needs confirmation from more observations, no doubt. I don’t think it is all shadows; however some of it might be. In the animation I darkened the original a bit because most of the images are too bright. Below is an unedited cropped composite of all the images listed above in sequence. You can find all the Microscopic images here:  http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/images/raw/OM/om_gallery_collection_archive_1.html      Posted by rlb2</DIV>These are pictures from the microscope, right? I thought the microscope would have its own steady lighting source. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Jun 22, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Any idea of the sze of the "worm"?Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Well, if these pictures were imagd with the microscope camera and that field is limited to 2mm x 1mm then..  /shrug  Tiny? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

rlb2 · Jun 23, 2008

a_lost_packet_ - Note: The NASA page on the Optical Microscope says imagery measures around 2x1mm.  Is that what we are looking at in these shots?rlb2 - If that’s the case then it is very small indeed.centsworth_II - If there are worms everywhere you look (as apparently there are), the signal for organics will be off the chart when the TEGA results for the first sample are released. rlb2 - I'm confident that they have something in the oven that will change things. silylene - Most likely the worm is some type of fiber which fell from the lander onto the microscope plate and adhered on one end only, and the wind is moving it around.rlb2 - Maybe but what strikes me is that it behaves like a worm, it stretches and clinging to its hole as a life support system, like an earthworm, night- crawler. It also appears to like the dark like an Ice-worm. Jon - Any idea of the sze of the "worm"? rlb2 - If a_lost_packet is right the width of the frame is 1mm. I took the longest section and rotated it making it stretch across the width of the frame and came up with a rough estimate. It took 10 of them or 1/10 the width of the frame which comes up to 0.1 mm or 0.004 in long. That is a very small worm, at that length it can even be a large hardy bacteria or a Nematode??? l3p3r - These are pictures from the microscope, right? I thought the microscope would have its own steady lighting source.rlb2 - I don't know, maybe they don't need one?? It would be cool to have a night-light on at night for a short time.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Jun 23, 2008

I don't know if this is an answer or not.  However, if there is a protective cover over this sample which is between it and the imaging lens, then the object most likely is something stuck to that protective cover.  Perhaps a bit of debris separated from the sample and blown onto the cover?  That might account for the strange movements in relation to the field of view when looking just at the sample.  If you notice the longer object in the upper left quadrant, it appears to be something anchored above the sampe and casting shadows below it as it "moves."Now, what would account for these longish specs I wouldn't know nor could I explain why there weren't more of them present on the protective cover or even if there is such a cover at all.  But, if you stick them on an imaginary plane above the sample surface with the shadows then falling down onto it, it sort of makes sense.  That would explain their apparent ability to anchor one portion in place and radiating movements from that one point - That one point just happens to be "stuck" to the protective cover, several microns above the surface instead of on it.  Any shadows cast from that position would look strange in relation to the surface shadows of the sample.It may be easier to see this in my shockwave flash file as you can stop the play and move back and forth between frames. (Important note: I have no idea if there is any sort of cover between the imaging lens and the sample. It's just an idea.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

freya · Jun 23, 2008

The apparent movement appears to be a focusing artifact.I've used optical microscopes many times and the apparent motion isan illusion. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

rlb2 · Jun 23, 2008

freya  - Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The apparent movement appears to be a focusing artifact.I've used optical microscopes many times and the apparent motion isan illusion. Posted by freya</DIV>rlb2 - I have used them many times too, if it was an illusion then it would be for more than just one item in the frame...We may soon get another look at it. June 21, 2008 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Saturday beamed back images showing that Phoenix's Robotic Arm successfully sprinkled soil onto the delivery port of the Lander’s Optical Microscope. http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

bearack · Jun 23, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>freya  - rlb2 - I have used them many times too, if it was an illusion then it would be for more than just one item in the frame...   Posted by rlb2</DIV> It is very interesting.  I wonder when and if we will hear about this from NASA? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /> </div>

exoscientist · Jun 23, 2008

Here are some close up images of the soil still on the scoop. Soil Scoop Zooms. http://www.marsroverblog.com/discuss-soil-scoop-zooms.html  They definitely give the impression of dried out soil that had recently been wet.    Bob Clark   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

duke_the_nuke · Jun 23, 2008

Have they named the worm yet? How about "Dorothy's wonderland huggly-buggly wiggly-woo wormy-poo"? <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Jun 23, 2008

duke_the-nuke's childish comments aside, I thought I would let those who are interested & are making valuable contributions to this thread know, that the Sol 28 images are coming in. There appears to be no Sol 27. Does anyone know why?? Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 23, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>duke_the-nuke's childish comments aside, I thought I would let those who are interested & are making valuable contributions to this thread know, that the Sol 28 images are coming in. There appears to be no Sol 27. Does anyone know why??Andrew Brown. Posted by 3488</DIV>I haven't seen any explanation anywhere I've looked Andrew.Thanx for the heads up on the Sol 28 images...I'll take a look now. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 23, 2008

Hmm, only one image of the TEGA ovens and it's from the other side.From what we can see, the 2nd oven door doesn't appear to have opened any further.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

duke_the_nuke · Jun 23, 2008

duke_the-nuke's childish comments asideToo childish for JPL? Doubtful..I am eminently qualified to work there...I still get overly excited even after 32 years of similar robot probes looking at more red dirt and rocks instead of manned missions (not their fault), and excel at making the most excessively premature and wild predictions about the possibilities of life based on the most scant and circumstantial evidence (or lack thereof) in order to insure future funding for yet another similar lander to look at even more red dirt and rocks. Also, my skill at creating cutsie names for rocks and dirt are without equal.. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Phoenix surface mission

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