Phoenix surface mission

thor06 · Jun 23, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>duke_the-nuke's childish comments asideToo childish for JPL? Doubtful..I am eminently qualified to work there...I still get overly excited even after 32 years of similar robot probes looking at more red dirt and rocks instead of manned missions (not their fault), and excel at making the most excessively premature and wild predictions about the possibilities of life based on the most scant and circumstantial evidence (or lack thereof) in order to insure future funding for yet another similar lander to look at even more red dirt and rocks. Also, my skill at creating cutsie names for rocks and dirt are without equal.. Posted by duke_the_nuke</DIV>  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/15/f62354ae-5757-4ec3-8fad-790d48aa000f.Medium.gif" alt="" />   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> www.watchnasatv.com ONE PERCENT FOR NASA! </div>

3488 · Jun 23, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hmm, only one image of the TEGA ovens and it's from the other side.From what we can see, the 2nd oven door doesn't appear to have opened any further.  Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Cheers Wayne, I'm back home now. Yes I see that, the oven 5 doors have not budged. I do not know if the vibration method has been tried yet. Mind you, that crack between the doors is wide enough to let a good sample in. I doo not see it as being a huge hinderance.It looks like many more images have been posted, they seem to post a few frames at a time, usually one for a while, but it's worth checking back regularly.Thank you also for your efforts to assist me in attempting to find out why there was nothing on Sol 27. With today's healthy crop of data, there appears to be nothing wrong. So that is a huge relief.To duke_the_nuke,Sorry duke_the_nuke, I did not mean to cause offense, now that you have explained yourself I can see where you are coming from. Yes there is dirt & red rocks. It's Mars. But having said that, no two of the six successful landing sites are alike. True Viking 1 (Chryse Planitia) & Mars Pathfinder (Ares Vallis) are the most similar IMO, but even then there are fundemental differences in rock distribution, density & the general lay of the land. Viking 2 (Utopia Planitia), the rocks are very much smaller & appear to be predominently volcanic & the site is generally much less dusty & smoother.The MER A Spirit (Gusev Crater), varying landforms from volcanic flooding on the plains with basaltic boulders, to something more hydrated in the Columbia Hills, MER B Opportunity, clearly a large area, heavily hydrated in the remote past, much layering, evidence pointing towards sedimentary origins. Now Phoenix (Scandia Colles), clearly a tundra area, the first ever encountered on Mars @ ground level, due to the far northerly latitude. Hopefully the trenching & the high res imaging of the surrounding area, will present us with a new martian history book of a completely different area. Six landers in 32 years (average 1 every 5 years 4 months if evenly distributed) , it's hardly over kill is it? Before we send humans, we have to be 100% sure that Mars is safe,  we have to get information from both orbit & on the surface from many different locations before we commit humans to the journey. People will go, IMO it is part of human evolution that we will go. My point is that we may have the technology now, but it will be an enormous undertaking & we cannot guarantee that a human crew will be safe on the surface. Evidence is mounting that a crew would be safe, but these unmanned craft, are casing the place out first. These names BTW are not official, they are merely used so we know whick rock, or layer, etc we are talking about. It would be cumbersome if it was, image #3346 16th rock from left 14th rock up Alt -44.37 deg, Azm 351.56 deg, two rocks left of large rock on image #3347 Alt -44.41 deg, Azm 001.17 deg. So naming them, is specific to what is being investigated. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

bearack · Jun 23, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>duke_the-nuke's childish comments asideToo childish for JPL? Doubtful..I am eminently qualified to work there...I still get overly excited even after 32 years of similar robot probes looking at more red dirt and rocks instead of manned missions (not their fault), and excel at making the most excessively premature and wild predictions about the possibilities of life based on the most scant and circumstantial evidence (or lack thereof) in order to insure future funding for yet another similar lander to look at even more red dirt and rocks. Also, my skill at creating cutsie names for rocks and dirt are without equal.. Posted by duke_the_nuke</DIV> Your pessimistic outlook of our robotic missions is dully noted.  Please let us here who truly appreciate the importance of these missions relish in the research currently being done.    <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /> </div>

3488 · Jun 23, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Your pessimistic outlook of our robotic missions is dully noted.  Please let us here who truly appreciate the importance of these missions relish in the research currently being done.    Posted by bearack</DIV>Cheers bearack for your support, it is very much appreciated. Some of us on these boards have been in one way or another involved, in helping either getting these missions approved, when they faced cancellation & / or been involved on the front line, with hardware, launch, etc so to speak. Many others on here, are contributing interesting ideas, theories, observations, thoughts & their wishes for the mission, which IMO are also contributing positively to the outcome, which I'm very happy to pass on to the Phoenix team, if asked to do so. I just felt that I had to explain myself to duke_the_nuke as to why I felt he was wrong & why I felt a bit peeved by his comments. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

neuvik · Jun 23, 2008

I've been enjoying this thread, with the bulk of posts presenting the fascinating data and picutres with great opinions and commentary.  I wish I had half the knowledge some of the people here poses, and more of their enthusiasm!  I personally like this particular lander. For school I had to use a robot to solve varise taskes from Parallax.  I have an idea how stressingly hard it is to program and use a robot.   I was just doing simple stuff.  They landed on another planet and are excavating, and preforming experiments!   Theres a delay between the information sent and recieved.  I'm amazed they are not having more problems than they have had so far.   Its honestly fascinating, its certainly just not some robot!    The Mars Phoenix Lander is getting us valuable knowledge on the terrestrial features, even if we don't use it in our lifetime, we are saving our children the trouble. Keep up the vigilance on the Mars Phoenix Lander SDC! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I don't think I'm alone when I say, "I hope more planets fall under the ruthless domination of Earth!"SDC Boards: Power by PLuck - Ph**king Luck </div>

3488 · Jun 23, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I've been enjoying this thread, with the bulk of posts presenting the fascinating data and picutres with great opinions and commentary.  I wish I had half the knowledge some of the people here poses, and more of their enthusiasm!  I personally like this particular lander. For school I had to use a robot to solve varise taskes from Parallax.  I have an idea how stressingly hard it is to program and use a robot.   I was just doing simple stuff.  They landed on another planet and are excavating, and preforming experiments!   Theres a delay between the information sent and recieved.  I'm amazed they are not having more problems than they have had so far.   Its honestly fascinating, its certainly just not some robot!    The Mars Phoenix Lander is getting us valuable knowledge on the terrestrial features, even if we don't use it in our lifetime, we are saving our children the trouble. Keep up the vigilance on the Mars Phoenix Lander SDC! Posted by neuvik</DIV>Thank you very much neuvik for your support also.I absolutely love this lander, a real Phoenix that rose out of fiasco of the double whammy back to back, Mars Climate Orbiter / Mars Polar Lander failures, though with Mars Polar Lander we're still not 100% sure as to why that failed in December 1999. What ever it was, certainly did not come back to haunt us last month. Phoenix treated that EDL is if it was a walk in the park. True she landed 22 KM long, but the main & by far the most important points are,1). Phoenix landed successfully intact.2). Phoenix sent back more data on Sol 0 than expected (like both MERs on Sol 1).3). Phoenix landed in a scientifically interesting area.4). Phoenix was the first successful & likely for a long time to come, land in a high latitude location (the upcoming Mars Science Laboratory & ExoMars rovers are slated for equatorial / tropical landing sites).5). As you said, very few problems really, considering what a crappy small budget the team have got, A minor hose up of the flash memory, oven TEGA doors being a little troublesome, but has been more let down by the MRO UHF radio hosing up & Odyssey going into safing, but even these problems are not frequent or long lasting).6). Looks like major mission objectives are likely to be completed by Sol 60, some 30 sols ahead of schedule & before primary mission end. This is also great news in that the final primary 30 sols could be used for more interesting tasks & perhaps open another unscheduled trench, putting the mission in a good position for an extention perhaps to Sol 160 into the Martian Northern Autumn, potentially very interesting time, with CO2 frosts starting to cover the landscape, recording new low temperatures on Mars, potentially beating Viking 2's -117 C / 179 F in May 1978. Maybe witness the start of the encasing of Phoenix Mars Lander in CO2 frost, before the camera packs up & power goes killing the lander.I just can't believe that some people on here are bloody moaning about this mission. I'm saying no more about that. Some interesting Sol 28 imagery has arrived, a whole bucket load. I wonder if some of it is actually Sol 27's, but dumped together with Sol 28, because there is quiet a lot for one sol IMO?I'll be back soon with a few. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 23, 2008

Trench getting a little deeper. Sol 28. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/15/27d02cbe-7392-483e-bfd6-39714b5e62cc.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Alt- 29.8 Azm 162.47 deg Sol 28. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/11/810abd58-7d4d-4f63-bb64-cf748235423e.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Close up of rock near the east solar array.Any ideas, Jon Clarke, Bob Clark (exoscientist) or Lucas????? <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/12/0de50475-3fec-4f74-ac04-a405ac319685.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Alt -46.74 Azm 109.49 deg. Area cleared by landing thrusters??? <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/14/4339dddb-ff65-4283-bef3-87f695f4c57d.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Horizon shot Azm 106.56 deg / ESE. Sol 28. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/7/1c8de946-9672-48ab-8778-cbc7d3f8ae96.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Horizon shot. Azm 95.33 deg / ESE. Sol 28.  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/15/978071da-75ed-43b3-afb4-b155d1fb74e4.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

tanstaafl76 · Jun 23, 2008

I don't think that clear area is the result of the landing thrusters, but rather just happenstance.  The other angles I've seen don't show a similar clearing on other sides of the lander, and the rocks don't look like they were recently dishevelled into that arrangement. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Jun 24, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> I don't think that clear area is the result of the landing thrusters, but rather just happenstance.  The other angles I've seen don't show a similar clearing on other sides of the lander, and the rocks don't look like they were recently dishevelled into that arrangement. Posted by tanstaafl76</DIV>Cheers tanstaafl76,Yes I see what you mean. The rocks have not been moved themselves, but I wondered about the area that appeared to be clearish of dust. It does look like happenstance, as looking further away there appear to be other similar small patches.Another Sol 28 view of eastern solar array Alt -29.8 Azm 154.4 Deg. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/10/171321bd-549c-494e-baad-e9730e4de6c3.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Blow up & crop of rounded eroded rock close to eastern panel. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/13/d61cc774-1d9c-49c3-8d37-47c6ce3dcbc5.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

centsworth_II · Jun 24, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>...Mind you, that crack between the doors is wide enough to let a good sample in. I doo not see it as being a huge hinderance.... Posted by 3488</DIV>Are my eyes deceiving me, or did they go ahead and dump some soil on the oven five doors?  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/15/704b8fed-82d4-489b-9fb9-d3a5b4df1aa4.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  From Mark Lemmon's sol 28 raw image page(2/3 way down the page)  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

JonClarke · Jun 24, 2008

http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=7297&cID=92Your guess is as good as mine as to what this is!Electrostatic effect? Magnetic effect? In which case why have we not seen it before, here or elsewhere? Dirty icicles? Wjaat time of day was this image taken? I notice that the next image of the scoop lacks them. Did they fall off, sublime, melt? Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

JonClarke · Jun 24, 2008

Hi Andrew Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Posted by 3488</DIV> Close up of rock near the east solar array.Any ideas, Jon Clarke, Bob Clark (exoscientist) or Lucas?????</DIV>Rock rounded by weathering?  By filling during ejecta flow?  Pits could be weathering pits or vesicles.Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Area cleared by landing thrusters??? </DIV>My guess would be the sort of random variation in rock density we see in other polygons further away.cheersJon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Jun 24, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Are my eyes deceiving me, or did they go ahead and dump some soil on the oven five doors?   From Mark Lemmon's sol 28 raw image page(2/3 way down the page)  Posted by centsworth_II</DIV>Hi centsworth_II. No I do not think your eyes are deceiving you. Looking again at the Sol 28 image of the TEGA, it does look as if soil was dumped on the oven 5 doors. I suspect that they are doing what I mentioned on here. Chancing that some soil will make it through the crack in the partially opened doors.Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=7297&cID=92Your guess is as good as mine as to what this is!Electrostatic effect? Magnetic effect? In which case why have we not seen it before, here or elsewhere? Dirty icicles? Wjaat time of day was this image taken?I notice that the next image of the scoop lacks them. Did they fall off, sublime, melt?Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Hi Jon, The pop up caption says the image was taken at 14:55 local time, so middish afternoon. It looks as if something was definately hanging onto the scoop briefly before falling off or subliming. My guess was that the scoop uncovered some icy soil, that fell off & sublimed in the afternoon sun. My guess only, but I will ask on the Phoenix blog later on. Thanks for the rock guesses. It could be either, so really I think we will have to wait for the colour images. This is certainly a very interesting site.Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

aetherius · Jun 24, 2008

Pause the flash below then forward one frame at a time.  The 'worm' at the bottom of the screen moves in lock step with the 'worm' in the upper right of the frame.  Probably a mating ritual<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />http://www.zshare.net/flash/140388723809779c/

rlb2 · Jun 24, 2008

<h3 style="margin-top:auto;margin-left:auto;margin-right:auto">Hi andrew, here are some forms or organics and kerogen to look for coming out of those ovens-  there are four types, I just gave two of the most interesting.</h3><h3 style="margin-top:auto;margin-left:auto;margin-right:auto">Type I</h3><ul><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list.5in">containing alginite, amorphous organic matter, cyanobacteria, freshwater algae, and land plant resins (AMO) </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list.5in">Hydrogen:Carbon ratio > 1.25 </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list.5in">Oxygen:Carbon ratio < 0.15 </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list.5in">Shows great tendency to readily produce liquid hydrocarbons. </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list.5in">It derives principally from lacustrine algae and forms only in anoxic lakes and several other unusual marine environments </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list.5in">Has few cyclic or aromatic structures </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list.5in">Formed mainly from proteins and lipids </li></ul><h3 style="margin-top:auto;margin-left:auto;margin-right:auto">Type II</h3><ul><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list.5in">Hydrogen:Carbon ratio < 1.25 </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list.5in">Oxygen:Carbon ratio 0.03 to 0.18 </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list.5in">Tend to produce a mix of gas and oil. </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list.5in">Several types: exinite, cutinite, resinite, and liptinite <ul><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list1.0in">Exinite: formed from the casings of pollen and spores </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list1.0in">Cutinite: formed from terrestrial plant cuticle </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list1.0in">Resinite: formed from terrestrial plant resins and animal decomposition resins </li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;tab-stops:list1.0in">Liptinite: formed from terrestrial plant lipids (hydrophobic molecules that are soluble in organic solvents) and marine algae </li></ul></li></ul>They all have great tendencies to produce petroleum and are all formed from lipids deposited under reducing conditions.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KerogensVan Krevelen diagramhttp://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~cheubeck/classes/Petroleumgeologie/class_content/03_Geochem_bw.pdfMy favorite - Type 1 and finding methane <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

centsworth_II · Jun 24, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=7297&cID=92Your guess is as good as mine as to what this is!.... I notice that the next image of the scoop lacks them. Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Putting the two images side by side, you can see that the scoop blade in the left image is over exposed to the point of disappearing. The soil is really laying on the over-exposed blade.  The under-exposed image on the right shows the true situation.  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/8/9073f376-5e40-4ee0-8811-b3269a36422b.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 24, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Putting the two images side by side, you can see that the scoop blade in the left image is over exposed to the point of disappearing. The soil is really laying on the over-exposed blade.  The under-exposed image on the right shows the true situation.    Posted by centsworth_II</DIV> Nice job centsworth!!!Investigator of the day! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

centsworth_II · Jun 24, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi centsworth_II. No I do not think your eyes are deceiving you. Looking again at the Sol 28 image of the TEGA, it does look as if soil was dumped on the oven 5 doors. I suspect that they are doing what I mentioned on here. Chancing that some soil will make it through the crack in the partially opened doors. Posted by 3488</DIV> Looking at sol 26(left) and sol 28, it's really hard to see if there is any dirt over the oven five doors on sol 28 or if it is just the change in lighting causing the oven doors to blend in with the old dirt pile on the oven four door.  In any case, it's my opinion too that they will try to slowly shake dirt into the small opening... and that they will be successful! <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/14/45382d89-917b-4d6f-8edb-dfcdeadc1d05.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

bearack · Jun 24, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Cheers bearack for your support, it is very much appreciated. Some of us on these boards have been in one way or another involved, in helping either getting these missions approved, when they faced cancellation & / or been involved on the front line, with hardware, launch, etc so to speak. Many others on here, are contributing interesting ideas, theories, observations, thoughts & their wishes for the mission, which IMO are also contributing positively to the outcome, which I'm very happy to pass on to the Phoenix team, if asked to do so.I just felt that I had to explain myself to duke_the_nuke as to why I felt he was wrong & why I felt a bit peeved by his comments. Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV> My pleasure, Andrew.  To me, these mission are extremely important for many reasons.  First and formost to better understand our own neighbors and how they have lived which helps us understand our own planet a little better.  Secondly, NASA and space research has been the primary driving force of our technology boom and not only helps in scientific advancements, but advancements in our day to day life.Such missions will only promote more manned missions so without these little buggers, we won't get a man up to Mars for a very, very long time.  If Phoenix is able to detect some form of ancient life, the scientific community will EXPLODE and financing will become a none issue, unlike our current state of affairs.Thank you and the others here who contribute to make sure these programs stay in play.  I'm also grateful for you and Meteor (edited to make sure not to leave out everyone who contributes here)for all your detailed explanations to better help a laymen such as myself understand what I am viewing.  Regards,Tim <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /> </div>

centsworth_II · Jun 24, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Nice job centsworth!!!Investigator of the day! Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> Another great idea stolen from unmannedspaceflight.com.  I can't remember which thread though.Someone has to do the dirty work.<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif" border="0" alt="Undecided" title="Undecided" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

rlb2 · Jun 24, 2008

aetherius - Pause the flash below then forward one frame at a time.  The 'worm' at the bottom of the screen moves in lock step with the 'worm' in the upper right of the frame.  Probably a mating ritualPosted by aetheriusI saw that too but as I mentioned before the shadows may also have to do with some of the visual effect however here are a couple still frames cropped from the same frames. Right now I am in a holding pattern waiting for the cookers to show their results. Remember water-ice  protects hydrocarbons, and organics therefore they will be a much higher concentration of hydrocarbons and possible other organics here than the previous places we have been on Mars. The type is important.  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/6/7ad579e1-2437-4bff-b691-23012f9af3c2.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="269" height="225" /> We may soon find out.NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander is gearing up to perform its first taste test of the red planet's arctic dirt.Scientists plan to use the spacecraft's wet chemistry lab, part of Phoenix's suite of tools called the Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer, or MECA, to test Mars' dirt for salts, acidity, minerals and conductivity.http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080624-phoenix-update.html  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

exoscientist · Jun 24, 2008

<div id="MsgBody" class="MessageBody">I thought it took 5 days for TEGA to get results on a sample. It's now getting close to two weeks since a sample was delivered.  From the June 11th, audio conference:Audio Recording of Phoenix Media Telecon for June 11, 2008. "Jeremy Manier: Hi. Thanks a lot. Uh, so Bill, uh, w-what, uh, what then will be the schedule with, uh, with the TEGA now? Uh, what -- when do you expect to be, uh, seeing the first, uh, things back? And how-how long is it really -- is it really going to take to, uh, to get some first gleanings from, uh, that analysis? "Bill Boynton: Well, we-we're hopeful that sometime in the next few days, we will close the oven and begin the analysis process. Now, the analysis process, uh, really takes about, uh, five days. We have, uh, four days of heating the samples to different temperature limits and an intervening day to, uh, actually bake out the mass spectrometer to remove any, uh, water vapor that we might have gotten from an earlier day's run. So it's probably a weeklong process once we begin. Uh, by the end of that time, we have -- should have some preliminary ideas of what we're seeing. Uh, the instrument's really designed to get very quantitative results. And it's likely to be, uh, several weeks after that before we really have definitive, uh, scientific numbers. But we-we should have a pretty good idea somewhere on the order of a week or so after we begin." http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/podcast-phx20080611.phpHowever, later on Peter Smith says the analysis will begin 2 days later which would have been June 13th. So it should be 11 days since the analysis should have begun. Bob Clark </div> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

KzooKidd · Jun 24, 2008

I am a first time visitor to this site.  I've been reading with great interest all of your informative posts.  This is a great forum, and I am very happy that I found all of you.I have only been following the Phoenix program since late April of this year, so I am a novice compared to all of you.  One thing that I have really been looking forward to are the results from the TEGA tests.  As of June 16th, we were told that results from the first oven sample would materialize within days.  I have been anxiously awaiting the test results from oven #4, but I must says that I have been terribly disappointed with the lack of information coming from ASU.  I have obtained more info from all of you regarding the preliminary results of of #4 testing than what has been posted on the official Phoenix website.Do any of you know when we can expect to receive test results from the #4 oven (did we find carbon)?  I am hopeful that testing is going well, but I have a suspicion that the TEGA is malfunctioning to a greater extent than we are being made aware of.By the way, one of the postings referenced a small worm called a TARDIGRADE.  I Googled this little creature and was amazed by resilience of this organism.  I didn't do a lot of research on the tardigrade, but I think that it is safe to say that these organisms could have been delivered to earth via a meteor many, many years ago. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Kzoo Kidd </div>

bearack · Jun 24, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I am a first time visitor to this site.  I've been reading with great interest all of your informative posts.  This is a great forum, and I am very happy that I found all of you.I have only been following the Phoenix program since late April of this year, so I am a novice compared to all of you.  One thing that I have really been looking forward to are the results from the TEGA tests.  As of June 16th, we were told that results from the first oven sample would materialize within days.  I have been anxiously awaiting the test results from oven #4, but I must says that I have been terribly disappointed with the lack of information coming from ASU.  I have obtained more info from all of you regarding the preliminary results of of #4 testing than what has been posted on the official Phoenix website.Do any of you know when we can expect to receive test results from the #4 oven (did we find carbon)?  I am hopeful that testing is going well, but I have a suspicion that the TEGA is malfunctioning to a greater extent than we are being made aware of.By the way, one of the postings referenced a small worm called a TARDIGRADE.  I Googled this little creature and was amazed by resilience of this organism.  I didn't do a lot of research on the tardigrade, but I think that it is safe to say that these organisms could have been delivered to earth via a meteor many, many years ago. Posted by KzooKidd</DIV>Welcome to the forum.  The fortunate thing is that our own Andrew is one of the ASU professors providing all this information you're reading.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <img id="06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/14/06322a8d-f18d-4ab1-8ea7-150275a4cb53.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 24, 2008

To both KzooKid and exoscientist,If you will recall, between the June 16 and 20 teleconferences, there was a software problem which reduced the amount of data that could be collected/uplinked per day.I suspect the next news conference will give PRELIMINARY results from the first TEGA oven. Also whether a sample has made it to the second oven.Today's news was that a sample has been delivered to the MECA microscope. The wet chemistry experiment has been given a dry run <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" />, testing it's operation with water brought from earth.It has been stated several times a full analysis will take a few weeks.Patience is a virtue, and it is required when remotely exploring a planet 20 minutes light time away. It is better to be methodical and cautious, rather than rushing and screwing up the whole spacecraft.Sure I want to know as much as I can as soon as I can. But I'm willing to wait for proper data.And By The Way, almost everything posted here has come from the Phoenix team, so there's really no way for you to get more info than they have released. We just collect and interpret it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

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