Question about detecting water on some moons

[brandbll]

In order to detect water on moons like Europa or Eucleudus((its spelled wrong i know), why don't we smash something into them like we did with deep impact but way bigger. Send like, one satelite to monitor and detect for signs of water and then send another that is for speed to get as big of an impact as poissible(well or as needed). Any ideas? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="3">You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard!</font></p> </div>

 

[jschaef5]

There are easier ways to do it like using spectroscopy and various types or radar like devices. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[brandbll]

Yeah, never mind i guess i forgot to think about that. Well, this way would be way more fun though. And we'd get some awesome pictures im sure. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="3">You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard!</font></p> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

"In order to detect water on moons like Europa or Eucleudus((its spelled wrong i know), why don't we smash something into them like we did with deep impact but way bigger. Send like, one satelite to monitor and detect for signs of water and then send another that is for speed to get as big of an impact as poissible(well or as needed). Any ideas?"<br /><br />Have you heard of the Thor misson? It's a near term project to smack a 250 kg copper cannonball into the Martian surface while an orbiter observes the impact site. It's anticipated the projectile will leave a crater 10 meters deep, all in an effort to dig for subsurface ice.<br /><br />http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/THOR_Mars_Mission_To_Seek_Underground_Water.html

 

[brandbll]

That is awesome! When is this Thor mission going to happen?(nevermind saw the link) I remember the pictures of shoemaker-levy smacking into Jupiter, and those were incredible. I couldn't believe how much power that sucker had. Big enough that it left a scar for a while even on the mighty Jupiter. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="3">You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard!</font></p> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

"That is awesome!"<br /><br />I agree! I found out about the mission just in the last month. But as regards your earlier question about hitting a moon to look for ice, I suggest smacking one of the moons of Mars -- Deimos. <br /><br />Deimos is the outer and smaller of the Martian moons and has a low density. Some suspect water ice may lie under the regolith of Deimos at as shallow a depth as 10 meters at the polar regions. Not only that, but Deimos is one of the easiest objects in the solar system to reach from Earth. Plus the discovery of water ice on Deimos could radically alter planning for manned missions to Mars as Deimos could serve as a refuelling stop for spacecraft.

 

[baktothemoon]

That would leave one heck of a hole if we hit the thing without going into orbit. Mars hardly has any atmosphere to slow it down, I bet the hole would be way bigger than 10m deep.<br /><br />"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." John F. Kennedy

 

[brandbll]

it would be even more awesome if they were somehow able to video record it. That would be sweet! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="3">You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard!</font></p> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

"That would leave one heck of a hole if we hit the thing without going into orbit. Mars hardly has any atmosphere to slow it down, I bet the hole would be way bigger than 10m deep."<br /><br />Yep.<br /><br />That's another advantage of the hitting Deimos, since as a pure flyby-mission the impactor could hit Deimos with full velocity. <br />

 

[gunsandrockets]

Now there is a plan to hit the Earth's moon too...<br /><br />http://www.moondaily.com/reports/JPL_Set_To_Have_A_Big_Impact_With_Next_Lunar_Mission.html

 

[baktothemoon]

I'd rather see Mars hit than Deimos. It's more important to find ice on Mars than on that little rock of a moon. I wonder if they could squeeze that into the next launch window. So far the pattern has been orbiter, lander, orbiter, lander. So I wonder if they will send Thor now instead of MSL or bump Thor to the launch window after. Too bad they can't send both. If Thor gets delayed to the launch window after this one then the MRO might be a little old by then. Unless Thor would have a seperate orbiter along with it.<br /><br />"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." John F. Kennedy

 

[gunsandrockets]

"I'd rather see Mars hit than Deimos. It's more important to find ice on Mars than on that little rock of a moon."<br /><br />Ah, no. The presence of surface and subsurface ice on Mars is already known. The only thing Thor will give us is some more detail about ice in lower Martian lattitudes. Nice to know but not vital.<br /><br />Deimos ice on the other hand is still a mystery. And the presence of easily recovered ice on Deimos could revolutionize plans for manned missions to Mars and accelerate possible timelines. Deimos is much more easy to reach from Earth than the surface of Mars, so Deimos could provide the ideal refuelling location and enable simple and cheaper travel to Mars itself. <br /><br />Plus, if handled imaginatively, not only could an impact mission discover Deimos ice, it could also provide the means for a limited (and really cheap) Deimos sample return mission! If the impact observing flyby-spacecraft is on a free-return trajectory (easy to do) and provided with aerogel sample-collection pads (just like the Stardust comet sample return mission), it might be possible to scoop up a tiny amount of Deimos debris blown out into space by the collision.<br /><br /> http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html<br /><br />"I wonder if they could squeeze that into the next launch window. So far the pattern has been orbiter, lander, orbiter, lander. So I wonder if they will send Thor now instead of MSL or bump Thor to the launch window after. Too bad they can't send both."<br /><br />MSL will launch in 2009. From the Thor link I provided...<br /><br />"If approved by NASA, the mission [Thor] would launch in 2011."<br /><br />http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/THOR_Mars_Mission_To_Seek_Underground_Water.html<br /><br />Thor is a cheap mission, that is the main appeal. Thor is not going to

 

[gunsandrockets]

update!<br /><br />http://www.moontoday.net/news/viewpr.html?pid=19514

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">t would be even more awesome if they were somehow able to video record it.</font>/i><br /><br />The MERs lasted long enough time for the next Mars mission to arrive. Imagine the following: A MER-like lander lands, completes its mission after ~90 days but its kept alive waiting for the next Mars mission -- the cannon bomb. The projectile lands near the MER, the MER records it, and (if it survives) the MER can go and investigate the results.<br /><br />The only issue is that NASA plans ahead to place a rover near where they would like to bomb Mars two years later.</i>