Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoenix Lander results

[paulanderson]

The MER team's majority opinion at this point is a volcanic origin of Home Plate according to this update from Squyres; they are looking for "volcanic bombs" in particular:<br /><br /><b>Mars Rover to Seek Safe Winter Haven</b><br />http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn8730-mars-rover-to-seek-safe-winter-haven.html<br /><br />One of the posters on the US.com forum, a MER team member, has also indicated, with some good points made, that Home Plate may be (either itself or sitting in) a volcanic / hydrothermal vent (post #227):<br /><br />http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=2189&st=225#<br /><br />The highly eroded circular depression it appears to be sitting in may then be an old vent of some kind, not just an ordinary crater, as I had also wondered about.<br /><br />All theories are still on the table at this point though, as Squyres indicates. I await the analysis results with interest.<br />

 

[bonzelite]

that is pretty darned amazing info. many thanks.

 

[rlb2]

Thanks for the links.<br /><br />2P192768835EL5M1.5 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P193078975EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

Here is something interesting that may just be playing a little trick on the eyes. Notice the vent looking white streak and what appears to be a vapor cloud above it, to the left. In the original image on the left side the blotch above the streak was the only one visible in the sky? <br /><br />This will probably turn out to be nothing folks but forgive me for my over enthusiasm because my imagination is cooking right now from what we may find in the home-plate area..<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[bonzelite]

what is that circlular cow dung plop in that image? looks like cow poop mud or something, 2 images up.

 

[jatslo]

Cool! Good eye for detail. <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" />

 

[JonClarke]

2P192768835EL5M1.5<br /><br />Very nice low angle cross beds. These are characteristics of highj energy environments like truncated aeolian dunes, beaches, and volcanic and hdyrothermal surge deposits.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

1P193078975EL5M1<br /><br />Very nice dirt cracking. It happens when soils infill fractures formed by other processes, and starts a wedging process, leading to more fracturing. the jigsaw fit fragments with dirt in between is characteristic.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">reikel - Cool image, rlb2........ can you post a link to the original?<font color="white"><br /><br />Thanks, I first thought how that location looked like a Yellowstone hot spring - it may be just wishful thinking on my part. <br /><br />I’m in your part of the world right now, Fort Worth - Dallas Texas been here for 1 month on business, headed home today. <br /><br />You can find that image here: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_f759.html<br /><br /><font color="orange">what is that circlular cow dung plop in that image? looks like cow poop mud or something, 2 images up.<font color="white"><br /><br />Wow - another fuel supply: cow chips.<br /><br /><font color="orange"> jatslo - Cool! Good eye for detail<font color="white"><br /><br />Thanks, I just hope it’s not another mirage…<br /><br /><font color="orange">2P192768835EL5M1.5 <br /><br />JonClarke - Very nice low angle cross beds. These are characteristics of highj energy environments like truncated aeolian dunes, beaches, and volcanic and hdyrothermal surge deposits.<font color="white"><br /><br />Far-out man– it is always good to here your point of view.<br /></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Soemwhere in the HP images is at least one showing a drop stone that has penetrated down into underlying sediments and deformed them. There are also upward-fining beds, so i think the signs are pointing towards a hydrothermal or volcanic eruption deposit.<br /><br />The question then emerges, what is the geometry of the deposit. The images of HP as a whole look like a roughly oval deposit. siting on top of the other rocks. However the photos of the outcrop show it to be dipping steeply. So more obervations are needed.<br /><br /><br />There has been a lot of speculation that HP might be a vent. This is consistent with the geometry, as seen so far, but not with the sediments, which are typically well sorted sand and gravel, typical of deposits further away. Vent fills are generally very poorly sorted and have lots of very large blocks. <br /><br />It is certioanly one of the most exciting things seen by Spirit so far!<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"Somewhere in the HP images is at least one showing a drop stone that has penetrated down into underlying sediments and deformed them."</font><br /><br />I believe the drop stone you refer to is in all of the pancam images in the link below. Just to the lower right of center in each image. I don't think they did any MI on it. Maybe they are so sure of what it is that they don't think MIs would tell them anything more.<br /><br />http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_p751.html<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"It is certainly one of the most exciting things seen by Spirit so far!</font><br />Which makes the fact that they must make a quick departure for McCool Hill after a rushed look at it so frustrating.<img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /><br /><br /> <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jatslo]

*Yep* looks like a fresh one; not a fossil, at all.

 

[centsworth_II]

You can see the drop stone in the overall context of the Gibson Pan at the link below. It's almost in the center of the bit of the pan image at the bottom that extends down below the rest. <br />http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~jcanvin/mer/index.html#A0748<br /><br />It looks like a cross-section through a crater. Where the stone blasted through layers and came to rest, deforming but not breaking through the layer it came to rest on. If this is truly a cross section of this type of event its another lucky miracle for the rovers: To have come upon it at first contact with Home Plate. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"...looks like a fresh one; not a fossil, at all."</font><br /><br />Of course, a fresh drop stone event would only be visible as a minicrater hole in the ground, not an erosion-exposed cross section through layers of rock. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

That's the image. As has been pointed out, it excavated quite a whole when it hit, this would indicate considerable velocity, consistent with travel through air not water. It would also suggest the substrate was dry, rather than wet. And it's not that lucky. Such bombs are quite common in volcanic sediments. What would be lucky if it were not a bomb but a meteorite......<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

centsworth_II: "... <font color="yellow">fresh drop stone event would only be visible as a minicrater hole in the ground, not an erosion-exposed cross section through layers of rock</font>..."<br /><br />Well, when I first saw the tire tracks, I thought they might of been caused by pooling of liquids, probably water, but this event captured in time looks even more compelling for pooling, with possible geyser potential. Would not that be cool, if it started bubbling as the rover is nearby? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Anyway, the tracks look cemented from my perspective; still guessing. If any biology is around, a mice steam vent might be as good as place as any to look. <br /><br />Spelled two words wrong in the pic, darn it!

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">Soemwhere in the HP images is at least one showing a drop stone that has penetrated down into underlying sediments and deformed them. There are also upward-fining beds, so i think the signs are pointing towards a hydrothermal or volcanic eruption deposit. <font color="white"><br /><br /><br />Centworth_II supplied the location of the RGB filter for the image you were referring to, I processed it into color and sharpened it a bit.</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

Here are some new interesting images? Enlarged area is in the upper left corner.<br /><br />2P193666890EL7M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

Color image of a new "Burns Cliff" looking area at Oppy's site. <br /><br />1P194143458EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

Here is an interesting layered rock erosion formation at Spirits site.<br /><br />Enlarged from 2P194012111EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[JonClarke]

"Color image of a new "Burns Cliff" looking area at Oppy's site. " <br /><br />Is that "Mogollon (sp??) rim"?<br /><br />Jon<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">Is that "Mogollon (sp??) rim"? <font color="white"><br /><br />I think so, it is from the RGB filtered raw images at the JPL site on sol 743 - here is a link.<br /><br />http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity_p743.html</font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Thanks! Interesting that it is so flat - it suggests that erosion has worn the crater rim back past the point where beds are tilted.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[pocket_rocket]

Wow. Your pics are always great, but I think you outdid yourself on that last one.<br /><br />