Simulations Show Liquid Water Could Exist on Mars / New Phoenix Lander results

[JonClarke]

Your theory sounds crazy - but is it crazy enough to be true? <br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

Here is a very interesting rock formation from Home plate, notice the white small objects in the shadows – salts, permafrost or reflection?<br /><br />2P194989785EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P194676665EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P194675395EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Can't quite see the features you mean, but there is certainly quite a range in brightness, I really like the cross bedding, very steep, and much more likely to be waterlaid than any we have seen at HP so far. Any idea on the scale?<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">I really like the cross bedding, very steep, and much more likely to be waterlaid than any we have seen at HP so far. Any idea on the scale?<font color="white"><br /><br />Not sure how far away it is, judging from the sequence of images I would guess to say it is near the rover.<br /><br /><font color="orange">Can't quite see the features you mean, but there is certainly quite a range in brightness<font color="white"><br /><br />Here is an enlarged section of one of the bright spots in the shadows.<br /></font></font></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P195385270EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Thanks. That looks like a fragment to me, one that has fallen from one of the bright, wind-fretted rocks.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

2P195076388EL5M1.7 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

2P195076263EL5M1.7 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

I posted pre-crash x 2 of Space.com message board going back when this board was first established that<br /><br /><font color="orange"> Mars may have had drastic changes in climate conditions that over thousands of years may have led Mars to have a warmer (global warming gas, CO2, trapped in the rogelith and the South Pole), therefore having a more favorable condition for wetter times in its recent past. Earth to a lesser extent with much less global warming gases than Mars had changes in its history warmer and colder periods in its recent past and its orbit around the sun is much more circular so why not Mars. This isn't a good incubator for life on the surface but life could take hold similar to Earth's in a body of water with a icy cap.<font color="white"> <br /><br />I got a lot of boos from mad-space.com flamers for that - now some scientist are suggesting just that. <br /><br />Mine was directed towards what I thought was a logical solution to what at that time we were observing from space. I used just simple logic and I'm sure others had to be thinking the same way however proof is what separates a hypothesis from a good theory, no solid evidence was available at that time now we have more evidence of a wet past and some of that is directed towards a more recent wet past...<br /><br />Salts, Salts, Salts - near the surface around Home plate dug up by the trench digging Spirit rover???<br /><br />How are the wind people going to explain this one? <br /><br />2P196320532EL5M1<br /></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[voyagerwsh]

Magnesium sulfates?<br /><br />Perhaps, melted ground ice or percolated groundwater dissolved minerals and became mineral water which subsequently vaporized and left with these Epsom salts? <br /><br />Link

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">Perhaps, melted ground ice or percolated groundwater dissolved minerals and became mineral water which subsequently vaporized and left with these Epsom salts? <font color="white"><br /><br />Perhaps - here is a recent article about the razorbacks, one of the images I posted at the beginning of this thread that mentions that.<br /><font color="yellow"> <br />"soggy sand - may indicate the recent presence of water at the surface" Chavdarian and Sumner think that the fins are formed when water seeps into cracks in the sand, carrying minerals with it. The water evaporates away, leaving behind those minerals, which are exposed as the wind blows sand away. Windblown material sticks to the exposed fin, making it larger and stronger. <font color="white"> <br /><br />http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=19481<br /><br />Check out a new pan view from Oppy's site I colorized at my weekly updated thread at:<br /><br />http://members.cox.net/mars.images/index.htm<br /><br />http://members.cox.net/mars.images/1P195027423EL5M1.1.jpg<br /><br />See image below...</font></font></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P197696607EL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P197781769EL5M1.5 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

Top left inset image is from a dried up lake bed in Arizona<br /><br />1P198407127EL5M1.7 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P197164550EL5M1.5 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[qso1]

It would not be suprising to me if liquid water could be shown to exist at the surface of Mars. I noticed tracks from the Pathfinder rover years ago that struck me as looking comparable to wet mud.<br /><br />It may even be that water exists just below the surface in some places as in less than a few inches subsurface. Rover tracks would expose the water or whatever liquid it might be. An experiment that should be tried would be to image fresh tracks that look wet enough, then image the same track same time next day (To insure close enough lighting conditions etc.) to see if it appears the track has dried out. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">to see if it appears the track has dried out.<font color="white"><br /><br />It has been suggested that the dried out mud tracks would obey certain conditions, visual and experimental, as observed by scientific instruments. What a lot of those suggestions are based on is terrestrial observations. In order to prove that observation is correct to base our assumptions tests should be done under Martian conditions in a CO2 environment with a 7 millibar pressure and the same soil conditions, fine grain / course grain soil, with material similar to the observed soil analyzed on Mars. Don’t know if they have done those tests yet.<br /></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P198408061EL5M1.5 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P199291527EL5M1.5 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1P202311230EL5M1.5 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

1F202404529ER0M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[JonClarke]

The Meridiani examples are dirt-cracking of already lithified material. They are not dessication cracks formed during sedimentation.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rlb2]

What would your assumptions be on this?<br /><br />Caking of dry fine grain soil or silt with no water saturated voids (talcum powder like), or something you may see on tires when driving through a dusty patch of dry powdery snow-like material (frost)??? <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>