Ariane 5 ES-L528 - ATV cargo (Jules Verne) -

[scottb50]

<p>Any information on the time the ATV can be kept in orbit or at the ISS? With the cryo-oxidizer I would think it would be limited.</p><p>I would also think it would be possible to use it for commercial or specialized labs for extended periods, the only problem being it couldn't be discarded or used to eliminate waste when it's no longer needed.</p><p>The ATV seems like it's overbuilt to be a simple cargo container and trash receptacle.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Zipi]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>From ESA "Additional demonstrations of Jules Verne's functionality are scheduled later in the month, with actual rendezvous and docking planned for 3 April 2008. "&nbsp;Here's a mission page for the next week or so:http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/ATV/SEMQ29N5NDF_0.html&quot;Demo Day 1 (Mar 29) will bring ATV to s2, 3500 m behind the ISS. Demo Day 2 (Mar 31) will bring ATV to S41, just 12 m away from the Russian service module. The first docking attempt is scheduled for 3 April 2008. ATV will slow down to just 7 cm/sec before final contact. <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV><br /><br />I thought I had seen this before and I really did. I was wondering why the ATV has been parked in the front of the ISS and not at behind. I almost started questioning my memory. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif" border="0" alt="Tongue out" title="Tongue out" /></p><p>There have been at least two passings of USA 193 DEB behind the station (ISS(Zarya))about 2-4km range and that might be a reason why it has been parked in the front of the station. There have also been passings in the front of the station, but for some reason some of them are reported a close passings of STS-123 and the rest of the from the ATV. It sounds odd that there is enough space between the ATV and the shuttle/ISS combination for debris passing without any noise from Nasa/Esa or news papers/websites. Because if some&nbsp;debris passing is close&nbsp;to STS-123&nbsp;it should mean it is also a pretty close passing of the ATV.</p><p>After these debris thoughts I have an another&nbsp;question: Is the ATV able to dock with PMA? I mean USA and Russian sides of the station are docked together with PMA... So maybe it is possible to dock the ATV to the USA's side of the station as well. If it is not possible are the PMA docking ports physically different or only missing those mirrors (or something else minor) needed for the laser assisted docking process which the ATV uses?</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Zipi]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The ATV seems like it's overbuilt to be a simple cargo container and trash receptacle. <br />Posted by scottb50</DIV><br /><br />Maybe the next incarnation of it is one really big Soyuz craft... Which would enable us Europeans to fly to the space without USA or Russian assistance. I'm really waiting to see a space craft which we can use by ourselves.&nbsp;It could be built by ESA or it could be some international development/construction project like the ISS. But now I'm yet again slipping from the topic... At least slightly.&nbsp; <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Cygnus_X_1]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> another&nbsp;question: Is the ATV able to dock with PMA? I mean USA and Russian sides of the station are docked together with PMA... So maybe it is possible to dock the ATV to the USA's side of the station as well. If it is not possible are the PMA docking ports physically different or only missing those mirrors (or something else minor) needed for the laser assisted docking process which the ATV uses?&nbsp; <br /> Posted by Zipi</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>No PMA docking capablility for ATV.&nbsp; It uses the probe and drogue system which is on the russian segment.&nbsp; PMA use APAS.&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Cygnus_X_1]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Any information on the time the ATV can be kept in orbit or at the ISS? With the cryo-oxidizer I would think it would be limited.I would also think it would be possible to use it for commercial or specialized labs for extended periods, the only problem being it couldn't be discarded or used to eliminate waste when it's no longer needed.The ATV seems like it's overbuilt to be a simple cargo container and trash receptacle. <br /> Posted by scottb50</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>ATV doesn't use cryos, so that isn't a limiting factor.&nbsp; The need to dispose of trash and to send more cargo is really the limiting factor. &nbsp; It isn't over built.&nbsp; It built to meet the requirements to&nbsp; deliver dry cargo, water, air, and propellant and also it can reboost the ISS using its own propulsion.&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Maybe the next incarnation of it is one really big Soyuz craft... Which would enable us Europeans to fly to the space without USA or Russian assistance. I'm really waiting to see a space craft which we can use by ourselves.&nbsp;It could be built by ESA or it could be some international development/construction project like the ISS. But now I'm yet again slipping from the topic... At least slightly.&nbsp; <br />Posted by Zipi</DIV></p><p>There have been some studies for ATV evolution that include both large and small reentry modules. These could also dock with the US end.&nbsp; http://www.esa.int/esaMI/ATV/SEMNFZOR4CF_0.html<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[scottb50]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Maybe the next incarnation of it is one really big Soyuz craft... Which would enable us Europeans to fly to the space without USA or Russian assistance. I'm really waiting to see a space craft which we can use by ourselves.&nbsp;It could be built by ESA or it could be some international development/construction project like the ISS. But now I'm yet again slipping from the topic... At least slightly.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by Zipi</DIV></p><p>I don't see it as anything like an ESA Shuttle or Soyus, I see it more like the module just taken up on the current mission or as an addition to the ISS. My question was more how long such a structure could be attached to ISS and still be capable of de-orbiting itself. That the propellant is not common to either Shuttle of Soyus it would either have a fairly short usable time or need either re-fueling or a de-orbiting module, which would greatly increase the cost of keeping it at the ISS unless it became a permanent fixture, which would make the onboard propulsion system overly expensive. &nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Zipi]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I don't see it as anything like an ESA Shuttle or Soyus, I see it more like the module just taken up on the current mission or as an addition to the ISS. My question was more how long such a structure could be attached to ISS and still be capable of de-orbiting itself. That the propellant is not common to either Shuttle of Soyus it would either have a fairly short usable time or need either re-fueling or a de-orbiting module, which would greatly increase the cost of keeping it at the ISS unless it became a permanent fixture, which would make the onboard propulsion system overly expensive. &nbsp; <br />Posted by scottb50</DIV><br /><br />It can stay docked at least 6 months:</p><p>http://www.spacetoday.org/SpcStns/ATV/ATV.html</p><p>Actually the link above leads to a pretty good referate of ATV's properties and design goals.</p><p><strong>[EDIT1]</strong></p><p>ATV Links to ESA's pages:</p><p><strong>Mission concept:</strong> http://www.esa.int/esaMI/ATV/SEMOP432VBF_0.html<br /><strong>Flight phases:</strong> http://www.esa.int/esaMI/ATV/SEMWX432VBF_0.html</p><p>Actually pretty enlightning to see that they have utilized the European built Shuttle MPLM's to create ATV's cargo bay...</p><p><strong>[EDIT2]</strong></p><p><strong>Future development possibilities:</strong> http://www.esa.int/esaMI/ATV/SEMNFZOR4CF_0.html</p><p>Rather interesting possibilities I would say...</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[erioladastra]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I thought I had seen this before and I really did. I was wondering why the ATV has been parked in the front of the ISS and not at behind. I almost started questioning my memory. There have been at least two passings of USA 193 DEB behind the station (ISS(Zarya))about 2-4km range and that might be a reason why it has been parked in the front of the station. There have also been passings in the front of the station, but for some reason some of them are reported a close passings of STS-123 and the rest of the from the ATV. It sounds odd that there is enough space between the ATV and the shuttle/ISS combination for debris passing without any noise from Nasa/Esa or news papers/websites. Because if some&nbsp;debris passing is close&nbsp;to STS-123&nbsp;it should mean it is also a pretty close passing of the ATV.After these debris thoughts I have an another&nbsp;question: Is the ATV able to dock with PMA? I mean USA and Russian sides of the station are docked together with PMA... So maybe it is possible to dock the ATV to the USA's side of the station as well. If it is not possible are the PMA docking ports physically different or only missing those mirrors (or something else minor) needed for the laser assisted docking process which the ATV uses?&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>All 3 have had close brushes but nothing to cause anyone to move yet.&nbsp; However, when the Shuttle is up, the press is kind of blind to other things.<br />Posted by Zipi</DIV><br /></p>

 

[Zipi]

<p>I think my other questions have been answered, but is the ATV able to dock with PMA? My current research shows it is not able to do so. PMA has CBM to connect to the space station and APAS to connect to the shuttle or other spacecraft using the same mechanism. Russian segments are using Russian Probe and Cone Mechanism.<br /><br /><strong>PMA:</strong> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressurized_Mating_Adapter<br /><strong>APAS:</strong> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgynous_Peripheral_Attach_System<br /><strong>CBM:</strong> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Berthing_Mechanism<br /><strong>Russian Probe and Cone Mechanism:</strong> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Probe_and_Cone_Mechanism&nbsp;(somebody who really knows: please fill this placeholder) <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /></p><p><strong>And for collecting the all, here is the LIDS docking mechanism for the Orion spacecraft:<br /></strong>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Impact_Docking_System<br />I guess they have to create PMA-4 (and possibly PMA-5) for Orion needs...</p><p>Here is some&nbsp;information of the ATV's Russian based docking mechanism at the middle of the page: http://www.esa.int/esaMI/ATV/SEM3ZYOR4CF_0.html</p><p>And some discussion about the differences of Russian docking mechanisms: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5863&start=1</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Cygnus_X_1]

<p>

here is the LIDS docking mechanism for the Orion spacecraft:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Impact_Docking_SystemI guess they have to create PMA-4 (and possibly PMA-5) for Orion needs.../QUOTE]</p><p>No, Orion will use PMA 1 & 2.&nbsp; The first two missions to ISS will deliver an APAS to LIDS adapter.&nbsp; Also I did answer your questions earlier </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[erioladastra]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I think my other questions have been answered, but is the ATV able to dock with PMA? </DIV></p><p>No, it uses the Russian system.</p>

 

[bobw]

<p>I couldn't find much about it while it was happening, Houston Chronicle's ISS audio was just static, NASA TV had the same reruns it has been showing for at least 24 hours.&nbsp; I stumbled across an ESA blog.&nbsp; Day one practice is over.</p> <p class="post-info">http://webservices.esa.int/blog/post/1/226 <br /><strong><em>Demonstration Day 1&nbsp; 29 March, 2008 18:45<br />Jules Verne performs Escape manoeuvre </em></strong></p> <div class="post-content"><p><strong><em> The Escape command was sent from ATV Control Centre at 18:30 CET.&nbsp;Jules Verne could be seen moving away from the ISS. The team is now&nbsp;analysing the data collected. More later...<br /> -- Maria</em></strong> </p></div><p>&nbsp;Clicking the "Previous" button takes us to a few earlier entries but there was no "real time" coverage.&nbsp; They have a picture of JV from ISS and one of the control room on the next earlier page of the blog.</p><p><br /> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/10/59e19a22-ace0-487e-8a2c-78c14c51d2fe.Medium.jpg" alt="" width="405" height="343" /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[montmein69]

<br /><p><br /> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/1/d1522a80-b00c-40c6-9162-8e9b4eb880af.Medium.jpg" alt="" /><br />&nbsp;</p><p>As said in a previous post, the next step is :</p><p><font color="#0000ff">&nbsp;Demo Day 2 (Mar 31) will bring ATV to S41, just 12 m away from the Russian service module.</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I couldn't find much about it while it was happening, Houston Chronicle's ISS audio was just static, NASA TV had the same reruns it has been showing for at least 24 hours.&nbsp; I stumbled across an ESA blog.&nbsp; Day one practice is over. http://webservices.esa.int/blog/post/1/226 Demonstration Day 1&nbsp; 29 March, 2008 18:45Jules Verne performs Escape manoeuvre The Escape command was sent from ATV Control Centre at 18:30 CET.&nbsp;Jules Verne could be seen moving away from the ISS. The team is now&nbsp;analysing the data collected. More later... -- Maria &nbsp;Clicking the "Previous" button takes us to a few earlier entries but there was no "real time" coverage.&nbsp; They have a picture of JV from ISS and one of the control room on the next earlier page of the blog. <br />Posted by bobw</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I wonder if it's because it's an ESA mission, all data is sequestered. They are not as open as NASA, though one would think that the ISS/NASA would be more forthcoming....<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[bobw]

<p>They're at it again </p><br /><a name="subhead1" title="subhead1"></a><div class="nimgwra"><img src="http://www.esa.int/images/dd2_manoeuvres_large,0.jpg" border="0" alt="Demonstration Day 2 manoeuvres" title="Demonstration Day 2 manoeuvres" width="400" height="195" /></div><div class="mg_cap_nf true10px"><em><strong>Jules Verne ATV manoeuvres during Demonstration Day 2</strong></em></div><p> <em><strong><span class="text11px"> &nbsp;<br /> &nbsp;<br /> </span><a name="subhead2" title="subhead2"></a><span class="text11px">Sequence of events<br /></span> &nbsp;<br /></strong></em> <span class="text11px"><em><strong>Note: all times subject to change</strong></em> <pre><em><strong>Time CEST Activity Distance to ISS<br />14:26 Depart station point S-1/2 39 km<br />15:12 Arrive at station point S1 15.5 km<br />15:58 Arrive at station point S2 3.5 km<br />17:10 Arrive at station point S3 249 m<br />17.53 Retreat test<br />17:55 Hold test<br />17:59 Resume test<br />18:13 Arrive at station point S4 19 m<br />18:31 Arrive at station point S41 11 m<br />18:34 Retreat from S41 11 m<br />18:36 Arrive at station point S4 19 m<br />18:38-18:45 Perform 'Escape' from S4 <br /></strong></em></pre><em><strong> Today&rsquo;s events will be streamed live on the ESA website (courtesy of NASA TV). The broadcast starts at 16:00 CEST (14:00 UT) and continues until 18:45 CEST (16:45 UT).</strong></em><br /></span> <span class="text11px"> &nbsp;</span></p><p><span class="text11px">Following the links from THIS PAGE gets me to a&nbsp; spot with links to&nbsp; Real and Windows Media feeds.&nbsp; It brings up the regular NASA TV&nbsp; show, so JV coverage should be pretty easy to find.&nbsp;&nbsp; It is on now!</span></p><p>Edit:<br />They are showing pictures taken Saturday with the same 800mm lens used to take RPM pictures of the shuttle thermal tiles.&nbsp; Great pictures of JV in orbit!&nbsp; Now I will probably spend the rest of the day looking for Hi-Res versions of them somewhere on the interwebz.&nbsp; It is kind of surprising somebody like the BBC or something hasn't shown them yet.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p>NASA TV is covering it Live</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[bobw]

Jules Verne has started retreating from today's closest approach of 11 meters from the ISS.&nbsp; Everything looks good for docking Thursday. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[lampblack]

<p>That was some beautiful imagery on NASA TV.</p><p>As the ATV approached, through the Russian docking camera it looked like a huge, white, ghostly face emerging from the darkness. Then they broke into orbital sunrise -- and it was just outstandingly beautiful.</p><p>They brought it within 11 meters today, with final docking scheduled for Thursday. Nothing beats formation flying at 17,500 mph.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That was some beautiful imagery on NASA TV.As the ATV approached, through the Russian docking camera it looked like a huge, white, ghostly face emerging from the darkness. Then they broke into orbital sunrise -- and it was just outstandingly beautiful.They brought it within 11 meters today, with final docking scheduled for Thursday. Nothing beats formation flying at 17,500 mph.&nbsp; <br />Posted by lampblack</DIV></p><p>Yeahm, very nice stuff. Look fgorward to docking on Thursday!!</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Any information on the time the ATV can be kept in orbit or at the ISS? With the cryo-oxidizer I would think it would be limited.I would also think it would be possible to use it for commercial or specialized labs for extended periods, the only problem being it couldn't be discarded or used to eliminate waste when it's no longer needed.The ATV seems like it's overbuilt to be a simple cargo container and trash receptacle. <br />Posted by scottb50</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>It's also got engines to boost the ISS orbit.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p>Copy of dh's post in a duplicate thread...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><table border="0"><tbody><tr><td width="125" align="left" valign="top"><img src="http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/080305-atv-clouds-art-01.jpg" border="0" alt="" />

 

[aphh]

<p>Small problems with ATV confirmed by ESA.</p><p>In the pictures you could clearly see that some outer layers of ATV had been shaken off or melted. Which means some of the thermal outer layers have been compromised.</p><p>Some info about it here: http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMSGE5QGEF_index_0.html</p><p>(bottom of the page) </p>

 

[MeteorWayne]

[Good catch aphh, Thanx <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[Cygnus_X_1]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Small problems with ATV confirmed by ESA.In the pictures you could clearly see that some outer layers of ATV had been shaken off or melted. Which means some of the thermal outer layers have been compromised.Some info about it here: http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMSGE5QGEF_index_0.html(bottom of the page) <br /> Posted by aphh</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Nothing has melted.&nbsp; Just some of the thermal blankets/MLI (outer layers)&nbsp; have detached.&nbsp; This has caused some cool spots in the ATV that caused increased use of heaters and higher power requirements<br /> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>