International Space Agency?!? Yes? No? Maybe?

[alpha_and_omega]

Manned Mars missions and any large human space effort of scale or scope in Earths orbit or on Luna, will require great global focus and resources. The present human space effort is based on military and national control. Nearly anything related to space is directly or indirectly controlled by military interests, and has for this reason left humanity parked forever in Earths orbit, and lacking any global space port or launch infrastructure beyond expendable launchers. The shuttle is the closest thing to reusable that humanity presently has, and it is still basically an expendable launch vehicle. The resources needed to establish and field a robust fully reusable launch system of scale and scope, will require a change in thinking and focus in the space community. National Governments will provide the bulk of any such endeavor, but left to their own devices they will destroy any threat to their total control and dominance of the space frontier, and so must work through a neutral and multi-national frame work and organization if any progress is ever to materialize. Large space corporations and enterprises, although having the forward thinking and creativity which is badly needed, this which is always micro-managed in any Government operation or endeavor, but sadly lacks the power and infrastructure of National Government Institutions and Agencies. Private sector and societies have great enthusiasm, but again lack large scale infrastructure and solid central leadership and control which Government offers.<br /><br />For Humanity to gain a solid foot hold in space, Government, Industry, Academia & Scientific Community, and Societies & Private Enterprises must have a common bond which brings them together for a common purpose in a symbiotic and mutually beneficial way, and allows the best strengths and resources of each to meld together in an organized and focused way.<br /><br />The United Nations is "not" the organization in which to pursue this new era of hum

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>An International Space Agency - Yes!? - No!? - Maybe!?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Definately a big yes in my book. If all nations co-operated and spead the cost around, we could really go places besides LEO. For too long Nasa, thru the American taxpayer, has carried the bulk of of the Manned space exploration! Time for everone to get onboard and share the burden.<br /><br />But as for the *International Space Agency* lead by a certain ex SDC member - No way! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[alpha_and_omega]

o.k.! Good start in the right direction!<br /><br />What structure do you propose, and why?<br /><br />What should be the specific roles and guidelines of Government, Industry, Scientific & Academic Communities, and Societies and Private Enterprises, and why?<br /><br />Who should pay for what, how much, and why?<br /><br />How and where are the crews and tech. people going to be trained, and why?<br /><br />What should the first goal or mission of any such new International Space Agency be, and why?

 

[alpha_and_omega]

This is a public poll which has an interesting view on this topic:<br /><br />http://www.redcolony.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25<br />

 

[tap_sa]

Hi there Rick! 'Sup!?

 

[josh_simonson]

Absolutely not. Such a program would be driven by politics, not science or exploration. The ISS has serious flaws due to it's international nature (primarially being in a relatively useless orbit so Russia can launch to it from their soil). Can you imagine the fight in your international space agency over what nationality person is first to step on mars. That'd delay the mars program 10 years alone...<br /><br />Inviting folks from developing countries to participate would also be a weapons proliferation risk since most space equipment is dual-use.<br /><br />I much prefer to cooperate on a project-by-project and country-by-country basis.

 

[chris_in_space]

Put the quotes at "International Space Agency" and there will be only 12800...<br /><br />Many of them point to discussion forums.<br />

 

[brellis]

Yes! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[spaceiscool]

dobson rules!

 

[craig42]

Would you two mind explaining?<br /><br />Earth_bound_misfit<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>But as for the *International Space Agency* lead by a certain ex SDC member <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br /> What is The *International Space Agency*? How is it different to an International Space Agency?<br /><br />Crazy eddie <br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Your style is instantly recognizable, Mr. Dobson. At least you're not pretending to be a PR officer this time. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Who is Mr. Dobson? What does he have to do with this? <br />

 

[j05h]

the "international space agency" is a website created by one Rick Dobson. Mr. Dobson wants the world's space services turned over to his organization. He has been posting/flipping-out in forums for a decade - SDC, sci.space, others. His writing style is instantly recognizable. He sometimes creates new identities to post, but the veil is fragile, he posed recently as his lawyer and a PR girl. As soon as criticism arises, the pseudonyms freak out about how great and persecuted the Dobson is. Irony: Dobson rails against the New World Order on his website, but wants to implement an Iron Curtain above the Earth.<br /><br />Onto the subject of an International Space Agency. FOr me, the last thing in the whole world I want is an international space agency. NASA is schlerotic and bureaucratic enough, can you imagine adding in a UN-style bureaurcracy on top of that? I like the Space University and think that is an appropriate model for international space development, along with corporate entities like SeaLaunch and ILS. Turning rocketry and extraterrestrial exploitation over to the UN or Rick Dobson? No way, no how. <br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[spacefire]

since it was recently demonstrated that liquid water can exist on Mars for long periods of time, I think a manned mission should be made the focus of international efforts.As many entities-governments, industry, academia-should be coopted for this project. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />and <b><font color="red">I</font>/b> should lead it!</b> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[dobbins]

I you take a sober look at the history of space exploration the period when we had the fastest advances was during the space race between the USA and the USSR. Competition is a good thing, it spurs advance instead of hindering it. The last thing we need is some monolithic international agency run by a vainglorious crackpot or a UN that is riddled with corrupt members.<br /><br />

 

[spaceiscool]

dobson is a leader not a follower.

 

[tap_sa]

A nincompoop leader for the nincompoops, how fitting.

 

[juliemac]

A politically organised group? No way.<br />One organization? No way.<br />Like minded engineers and scientists with out borders? Yes!<br />A bit of competition between sections is a good thing.<br /><br />But get the polititions (?) out of it. All they can do is mess up a wet dream.

 

[alpha_and_omega]

What is the I.S.A.?<br /><br />It is not a one-world government or a one-world space agency as the nay sayers would make it seem! The I.S.A. is a joint effort of Government, Private Sector, Academia, and Citizen Societies Globally. Your presentation would not make this obvious and would be lumped into a U.N. One World Space Agency, which the I.S.A. is not. The I.S.A. would also not interfere in Military Affairs Earth Orbit In, and Military Influence Beyond Earth Orbit Would Hopefully Be Banned.<br /><br />"mosaic of nations & NGO's - 3-5 competing blocs" <br /><br />I agree, as does the I.S.A.! <br /><br />The structure and mission of the I.S.A. allows for cooperation and basic standards, rules, and treaties, but also allows for stiff competition as well! <br /><br />Both Government & Private Organizations will compete for I.S.A. Contracts, Patients, and Bragging Rights! <br /><br />Except, I.S.A. will bring focus and order to the whole mess, giving it better overall direction and insuring it stays peaceful, and as a result Human Space assets and capibilities will increase 10 fold in a very short time frame, 5 to 10 years. <br /><br />As a result many complex and costly human space projects and efforts can be brought on line, and undertaken in the next 10 years! <br /><br />International Space Plane System in 5 to 7 years! <br />Increased International Orbital Infrastructure in 4 to 6 years! <br />Luna Exploration & Base in 6 to 8 years! <br />Mars Exploration & Base in 8 to 10 years! <br /><br />Sorta like NASA deals with its contractors and sub-contractors. The best, brightest, and most cost effective get the contract. The European Space Agency, ESA does this also. <br /><br />The International Space Agency will be no different!

 

[dobbins]

Dude, we aren't going to hand the keys to NASA over to you anymore than we would do it with any other random space cadet.<br />

 

[grooble]

It is just a matter of time until the pattern of behaviour culminates with the signature moment of madness, resulting in a ban. <br /><br />

 

[omega_man]

ROTFLMAO<br /><br />Frankly, ISA’s past history of paranoia, their claims of massive conspiracies against them, their accusations of people and organizations attacking them, and their history of threats of lawsuits for imagined slights on internet forums, would certainly prevent any legitimate or reputable space organization from associating with Rick’s website, let alone hand over control of any kind.<br /><br />Here is a quote from an article posted on the PravdaRu site, which is purported to be an interview with Rick. The “Pravda” site has had this “interview” for at least 3 years. <br /><i>”Interest in the media and public is rising as well, and most notably after the first historic flight of a private space plane into orbit, Space Ship One by Burt Rutan and Scaled Composites.”</i> Apparently Rick is also a prophet, as he referred to something that happened years later, October 4, 2004 to be exact.<br /><br />Even the Science Book Board refers to the international space agency as hypothetical.<br /><br /> Marvin the Martian lists the ISA.<br /><i>If you need more information, please contact:<br />Mr. Marvin the Martian, Agent - Donkey #.007<br />CIA Secrete Propaganda Agency<br />The Space Frontier Foundation<br />CIA Alexandria, Virginia<br />Email: nazi@space-frontier.org</i><br /><br />According to the European Space Agency:<br /><i>”The ESA was a co-operative of various nations wanting to build a space program. It was a pioneer, the only international space agency.”</i> Clearly not referring to Rick’s website.<br /><br />From the BBC, in an article on the ISS, they show a photo of the ISS. The caption reads: The International Space Agency: a permamanent research laboratory in space<</safety_wrapper>

 

[spaceiscool]

cool rick thanks

 

[jmilsom]

Are any of you aware of OOSA, the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs. It is a very small agency based in Vienna. Its purpose is to promote international cooperation in the peaceful uses of Outer Space. One important function it performs is to maintain a Register of Objects Launched into Outer Space and to disseminate information contained therein.<br /><br />The Office provides substantive secretariat services for the three United Nations Conferences on the Exploration and Peaceful Uses of Outer Space (UNISPACE), which were held in 1968, 1982 and 1999. The Office now supports and participates in the implementation of the recommendations of UNISPACE III. <br /><br />I know a lot of people on these boards are anti-UN (without ever offering any alternative mechanisms for international cooperation and joint action), but the OOSA site is quite interesting and worth a look. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[spaceiscool]

no i prefer rick dobson as he hates nasa so he is a good man.

 

[j05h]

>dobson is a leader not a follower.<br /><br />You don't know what you're talking about, newbie. Leaders are people like Jim Benson, Burt Rutan, Gary Hudson and Patricia Grace Smith. <br /><br />You're one-liners are getting old, trolly-troll. I wish we could moderate these forums slashdot-style, you'd be -1 real quick.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[j05h]

>since it was recently demonstrated that liquid water can exist on Mars for long periods of time, I think a manned mission should be made the focus of international efforts.As many entities-governments, industry, academia-should be coopted for this project.<br /><br />I agree that cooperation is important, but so is competition. I'd rather see Boeing and Energia lead two separate efforts to Mars, with different consortia. Whichever organizations (inter, national, subnational) want to be involved should join. This in no way means I want an International Space Agency run by a tinplated Dobson-dictator or Kofi Annan.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>