Klipper update thread (part 1)

[nacnud]

The rocket motor arranged around the base of the Kliper are the escape motors for pad abort and boost phase abort, at least they are when they are all fired at the same time. In a great peace of Russian lateral thinking they also are the third stage and fires in pairs to give a little more delta v at the end of the boost.<br /><br />As for the number of sections there are four main sections, the launch vehicle adapter to which the escape motors are attached, the orbital module which is the same as the orbital module in the Soyuz, the instrument module containing mainly propellant tanks and finally the decent module or what is most recognisable as the Kliper. It is only the decent module that is to be reused.<br />

 

[teije]

Thanks guys!<br />Nacnud, I don't think that's the item I meant. (Although I can't see your picture yet) <br />In this<br /> http://missiles.ru/_foto/MAKS-2005_12-08/CRW_8699_(12aug_maks-2005)_11.jpg<br /><br />picture I can see the docking ring, several thrusters/motors, 2 dishes that I presume to be antenna's, but also, right beneath the docking ring there is a metal (Aluminium?) structure which seems to have some kind of lever attached to it. It looks like an interface of some kind. Perhaps for transferring fluids to a docked spacecraft? Or an interface to the launch vehicle?<br /><br />Anyway, those are just WAG's on my side. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <br />Do you know what it is/can be?<br />Thx<br />Teije

 

[lunatio_gordin]

Is it a docking Target?

 

[john_316]

I think i orginally designed this thing when we used to debate the OSP way back in the day before the crashes on here.<br /><br />I remember exactly some of the design criteria i put foward for an OSP design that klipper and the conical ideas for CEV both show....<br /><br /><br />Glad to see they took my ideas and put them to work...<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br />

 

[gunsandrockets]

Winged Kliper<br /><br />According to an article I just read in the latest Spaceflight Magazine, it was said it's "99% certain" that the Kliper will have wings and be capable of landing on conventional runways with a length of at least 3 km.

 

[tomnackid]

"Winged Kliper."<br /><br />---------------------------------------------<br />It sounds like Kliper is becoming more and more like Dynasoar. Even the disposable service module and the 3rd stage motors that double as abort motors come right out of the Orbital Dynasoar program. <br /><br />Between our Apollo-derived CEV, Russia's Dynasoar-ish Kliper and China's Modernized Soyuze we seem to be mining the fruits of the cold war! I guess sorting through all that feverish aerospace development from the 50s and 60s--all of the "could have beens" and "might have beens" will ultimately be a good thing.

 

[spacefire]

In that case, I'd like to see Von Braun's shuttle materialize. poof! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[kane007]

Unmaned test flight of the klipper scheduled for 2011 with maned flight test in 2012 - SPACE DAILY.<br />Nikolai Bryukhanov, deputy director general of the Energia Rocket and Space Corporation, aslo mentioned that though they could go it alone, they remain very keen to co-operate with others, i.e. ESA.<br /><br />"Opinion"; technology exchange good for both parties.

 

[shoogerbrugge]

good to see the thread on the first page again <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />This is also from spacedaily: http://www.spacedaily.com/news/ukraine-05b.html<br /><br />Agreement between the Ukraine Gov and the Russian Gov on space. Agreement on Cyclone, which was supposed to phased out, sea launch and Kliper<br /><br />Sadly enough it doesn't specify on what they will cooperate, but I still have good hopes for the Zenit/Kliper combination, if only for the first period of time.

 

[syndroma]

Winged Kliper<br /><br />Head of Energia, Nikolai Sevastyanov, said in interview to Alina Chernoivanova that decision is made - Kliper will be winged. The main reason - to decrease landing stresses and increase single vehicle lifetime to 20-25 years. He said that the Kliper starts manned flights in 2012 and becomes mainstream spacecraft by 2015.<br /><br />Also, he expressed his opinion that the Soyuz is magnificent spacecraft and they will continue to produce it as a lifeboat and for specific missions.<br /><br /><i>Picture: landing gear wells on 1:5 mockup</i>

 

[gofer]

Don't mean to dispute this official info... but "lifetime to 20-25 years" must be a typo. It's just that I read the exact same figures in Energia press releases but referring to 20-25 USES of the (multi-use) vehicle. Or maybe they are confused themselves.<br /><br />Aside, I think adding wings and wheels especially to a spacecraft that does nothing but ferries 6 people to and from LEO and launches on an expendable rocket is a dumb idea. The original Klipper was a pretty solid design, now it seems it's gone off the good engineering the way of geo-politics and has been compromised to attract foreign money. (*if* the Europeans ever decide to fund it) I hope the same doesn’t happen to the CEV.<br />

 

[syndroma]

Like this.<br />Although previously posted link shows it in greater detail:<br />http://missiles.ru/_foto/MAKS-2005_12-08/CRW_8699_(12aug_maks-2005)_11.jpg <br /><br />Edited: this one too:<br />http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/nk/forum-pic/Kliper/IMG_7636.jpg

 

[wvbraun]

Thanks for posting these pictures. Here is another one:

 

[ronatu]

http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/nk/forum-pic/Kliper-Bourget.gif

 

[spacefire]

aww this is booootiful! me wants one! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[peterweg]

The wings are are 'optional', they provide more aerodynamic control, They allow more accurcy in landing in Europe. The Russians don't need them as they have more open space for landing. Having 'wings' does not require wheels - the Clipper is supposed to descend using a parachute.

 

[teije]

I don't think ESA would even *want* to land in Europe. Except maybe for promotional reasons. If you launch from Kourou, you want to land as close as possible. <br />Of course that could still be the reason they want the winged version. The Russian tundra is more accessible to capsules than South American jungle. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Teije

 

[spacester]

A skid under the nose, airbags left and right aft, large chute above? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ronatu]

Just for safety will have a combination: lifting body drug, airplan landing capability and chute in reserve...

 

[nacnud]

I would think that would be the case, especialy for boost phase abort where it would be very hard to make a run way.

 

[ronatu]

O, no.<br />For early abort mission they will have a CAPSULE (cabine), located inside a Kliper.<br />Chute probably will be needed only for emergency landing in case of problems with gear etc.

 

[rubicondsrv]

Are you saying that they plan on separating the cabin from the fuselage in a low altitude abort and landing the cabin with parachutes, as well as having parachutes capable of safely landing the entire reusable portion of the vehicle in case of landing gear failure?<br /><br />This seems overly complicated. <br /><br />Why not just use the parachutes to land the entire reusable portion of the vehicle on a low altitude abort and do away with separating the fuselage? <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[kane007]

MASS!!!

 

[JonClarke]

The LES I have seen is a ring of rockets at the base of the adaptor shroud. the whole Kliper is basted clear in an emergency, the renetry vehicle then separates from the obital module and lands by parachute.<br /><br />I have never seen anything about a separate sub capsule for emergies which would add more mass, not reduce it.<br /><br />Jon<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[ronatu]

First of all it is my speculations only.<br /><br />Secondly if you take a look on Kliper design - it is modular.<br /><br />So I can imagine separation of lifting body (fuselage), propulsion module and habitat module from capsule during some situation and safe landing of capsule with crew.<br /><br />Reason weight of object which is exteremely important.<br /><br />It could happend on catastrophic events during launch or landing.<br />This is nothing new - Spaceship Soyuz is doing this for 40 years.