Phoenix surface mission

MeteorWayne · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Please show me where "some news organizations" posted the story. I have looked and have found nothing in any media outlet, so if you know of one, please show us so we can look at what was actually said.NASA very quickly posted a twitter announcement saying the story/rumor was inaccurate.I submit it was a wound up internet rumor, which is not what a PI should be wasting their time on. SHow me wrong if you can, and I'll gladly admit it. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> In fact, this whole tempest in a teacup was started by you posting a weak aricle from Spaceref.com where you didn't quote this part:"It is intriguing that MECA could have found anything more positive than that, but NASA and the University of Arizona are taking steps to prevent word from leaking out on the nature of the discovery made during MECA's second soil test, in which water from Earth was automatically stirred with Martian soil. "So it's an internet source, that has taken a hit to their credibility. I checked all the networks, CBS,ABC,NBC,CNN, USA Today, MSNBC, and so far have not found any article about this issue. So from what I've seen so far, AW&ST, spaceref, and SDC, in an unsourced blog comment are the only places that mentioned it, except of course for this thread, where you started that part of the discussion. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

rlb2 · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Please show me where "some news organizations" posted the story. I have looked and have found nothing in any media outlet, so if you know of one, please show us so we can look at what was actually said.NASA very quickly posted a twitter announcement saying the story/rumor was inaccurate.I submit it was a wound up internet rumor, which is not what a PI should be wasting their time on. SHow me wrong if you can, and I'll gladly admit it. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Aviation Week & Space Technology then spaceref.com, just to name a few.http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1297http://www.marstoday.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1297  Your right about the quick NASA denial, that's the professional response everyone is depending on but wasn't that just a response to the 'Whitehouse Briefing"  NASA isn't the ones who are doing most of analyzing it’s the U of A team, they would be responsible for disclaiming any bogus reports due to their findings.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

centsworth_II · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>A....it’s the U of A team, they would be responsible for disclaiming any bogus reports due to their findings.   Posted by rlb2</DIV> Maybe they are more concerned with getting on with the business collecting and analyzing their data than with with the fact that we are making fools of ourselves with all this breathless hyperventilation over next to nothing.  They want to publish some results (probably innocuous by the standards of this thread), and the publication -- Science -- they are publishing in requires an embargo.  Period. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

rlb2 · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>In fact, this whole tempest in a teacup was started by you posting a weak aricle from Spaceref.com where you didn't quote this part:"It is intriguing that MECA could have found anything more positive than that, but NASA and the University of Arizona are taking steps to prevent word from leaking out on the nature of the discovery made during MECA's second soil test, in which water from Earth was automatically stirred with Martian soil. "So it's an internet source, that has taken a hit to their credibility. I checked all the networks, CBS,ABC,NBC,CNN, USA Today, MSNBC, and so far have not found any article about this issue. So from what I've seen so far, AW&ST, spaceref, and SDC, in an unsourced blog comment are the only places that mentioned it, except of course for this thread, where you started that part of the discussion. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>That’s right I started it all by questioning the Spaceref.com article isn't that what we do on a daily basis here question news coming out of different sources. spaceref.com picket it up from Aviation Week & Space Technology. Spaceref.com is owned by Space.com their news article are sometimes picked up be major news organizations all over the world. If you can't find it that’s good enough by me but have you checked the news organization over seas???    <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

abq_farside · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Phoenix PI Peter Smith has commented on the issue,http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080804-phoenix-meca.html The issue bubbled up when it was reported Friday that some interesting results from Phoenix's wet chemistry laboratory, part of the Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer (MECA) suite of instruments, were mentioned in a White House briefing.  Not so, says Phoenix principal investigator Peter Smith, of the University of Arizona, who denied that any details of the MECA findings had been shared and called the reports "bogus and damaging information."But Smith told SPACE.com that this was "not true, MECA results have not been discussed at the White House." "There is no one who knows either on the [Phoenix] project in Tucson or at [NASA] HQ who knows where this information came from," Smith said in a subsequent email. Smith also said that the MECA team was not present at the Thursday briefing because "they had nothing new to report, the story was about water ice." Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> And this too! Sadly, much todo about nothing.  All this is going to do is make the conspiracy theorist buzz more. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cry.gif" border="0" alt="Cry" title="Cry" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Don't let who you are keep you from becoming who you want to be! </div>

rlb2 · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Maybe they are more concerned with getting on with the business collecting and analyzing their data than with with the fact that we are making fools of ourselves with all this breathless hyperventilation over next to nothing.  They want to publish some results (probably innocuous by the standards of this thread), and the publication -- Science -- they are publishing in requires an embargo.  Period. Posted by centsworth_II</DIV>If this was denied by U of A three days ago when that Aviation Week & Space Technology/spceref.com article came out we wouldn't be talking about this right now.    <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

silylene old · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>In fact, this whole tempest in a teacup was started by you posting a weak aricle from Spaceref.com where you didn't quote this part:"It is intriguing that MECA could have found anything more positive than that, but NASA and the University of Arizona are taking steps to prevent word from leaking out on the nature of the discovery made during MECA's second soil test, in which water from Earth was automatically stirred with Martian soil. "So it's an internet source, that has taken a hit to their credibility. I checked all the networks, CBS,ABC,NBC,CNN, USA Today, MSNBC, and so far have not found any article about this issue. So from what I've seen so far, AW&ST, spaceref, and SDC, in an unsourced blog comment are the only places that mentioned it, except of course for this thread, where you started that part of the discussion. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>MW, I do think it is a bit harsh to give rlb2 credit as the original source of the whole internet viral rumor buzz about this rather (to me, humorous) story, which is now the lead science story on the 'My Yahoo front page'.Was SDC really the first to start this wild rumor? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function. </div> </div>

Mee_n_Mac · Aug 4, 2008

So are we all reduced to flailing about over some sketchy "news report" or is there something more interesting to discuss ?  Has there been any release about how the mission planners hope to get the deeper sample that stuck before ?  Any revelations re: the cracks under the lander ? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -----------------------------------------------------Ask not what your Forum Software can do do on you,Ask it to, please for the love of all that's Holy, STOP ! </div>

smerral · Aug 4, 2008

Here's what it's all about: http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2008/aug/HQ_08199_Phoenix_Results.html

rlb2 · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>MW, I do think it is a bit harsh to give rlb2 credit as the original source of the whole internet viral rumor buzz about this rather (to me, humorous) story, which is now the lead science story on the 'My Yahoo front page'.Was SDC really the first to start this wild rumor? Posted by silylene</DIV>That is kind of funny. I get credit for something I didn’t do but can’t get credit for things I do. I feel like Rodney Dangerfield here…Actually if what is told in the "Bogus" statement at space.com is true then Aviation Week & Space Technology started it, spaceref.com and marstoday.com picket it up but credited AWST. Spaceref.com is owned by space.com.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

3488 · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>MW, I do think it is a bit harsh to give rlb2 credit as the original source of the whole internet viral rumor buzz about this rather (to me, humorous) story, which is now the lead science story on the 'My Yahoo front page'.Was SDC really the first to start this wild rumor? Posted by silylene</DIV>Hi silylene, It appears to have started with someone at AW / ST sending some crap e-mail about a non existent White House briefing that appears to have kicked this whole thing off. I do not know about anyone one else, but I'm getting fed up with it. Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>So are we all reduced to flailing about over some sketchy "news report" or is there something more interesting to discuss ?  Has there been any release about how the mission planners hope to get the deeper sample that stuck before ?  Any revelations re: the cracks under the lander ? Posted by mee_n_mac</DIV>Hi mee_n_mac,I agree with you also. Lets get on with the Phoenix mission & the research, priceless research I will add, that this remarkable spacecraft is performing on the surface in the arctic region on the Red Planet.Yes I too, would love to know more about the cracks in the ice beneath Phoenix. I have been scouring the raw images to see if there are any more of Snow Queen, where the cracks first appeared & also I hope the RAC will be used at midnight, to use the low midnight sun to image Holy Cow again.One thing I had thought, was that can the RAC be used to image the surface under the solar arrays? We've seen under the body of the lander, but we have not seen what's under the large solar arrays. I don't think there's anything remarkable there, but it's worth a look.Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That is kind of funny. I get credit for something I didn’t do but can’t get credit for things I do. I feel like Rodney Dangerfield here…Actually Aviation Week & Space Technology started it, spaceref.com and marstoday.com picket it up. Spaceref.com is owned by space.com.   Posted by rlb2</DIV>Hi Ron, no one is blaming you. You, yourself were at the receiving end of this nonsense. You did not start anything, you did not create any rumours. As I said in an earlier post, if you hear of anything else, please either bring it to our attention here or e-mail me directly & we can figure out how best to proceed. I will likely seek some advice of some of the more trusted & informed members here (they know who they are) That offer is open permanently. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

newtons_laws · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Here's what it's all about: http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2008/aug/HQ_08199_Phoenix_Results.html Posted by smerral</DIV>I know thad sodium chlorate is used as a weedkiller, so presumably the even more oxidising perchlorate ion is also harmful to plant growth?  In which case earlier statements about the soil being "suitable for growing asparagus" might need some revision!  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I know thad sodium chlorate is used as a weedkiller, so presumably the even more oxidising perchlorate ion is also harmful to plant growth?  In which case earlier statements about the soil being "suitable for growing asparagus" might need some revision!  Posted by newtons_laws</DIV>Hi newtons_laws,Yes, there was a statement purporting to say that there appear to be conflicting results & this would be one of them. Don't know if that is true or not, but we'll see. Sodium Chlorate has an extremely high PH, very highly alkaline, IIRC getting on for Caustic Soda levels of PH? I wonder in what concentration it is in. If highly diluted within the other compounds, it may raise the PH by only a little. If concentrated, then yes, it will be highly toxic, but really I do not think that as yet we have enough information to jump to conclusions. Jon Clarke or Bob Clark (exoscientist) may know more.Also the statement says that prelaunch decontamination procedures are being looked at agin to be 100% sure. I expect that all records that were made during the sterilisation of Phoenix prelaunch are being thoroughly checked now. AFAIK, the Phoenix engineers were very thorough, so I really doubt there where any hitch hiking bugs, but Earth's atmosphere is full of them & are moving around, so its a difficult one.  Aren't Perchlorates also used in some Hair Dyes & some bleaching agents?Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Aug 4, 2008

Hi everyone, I've just received this.MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY CALIFORNIA INSTITUE OF TECHNOLOGY NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PASADENA, CALIF. 91109 TELEPHONE 818-354-5011 http://www.jpl.nasa.gov Veronica McGregor/Guy Webster  818-354-5011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. veronica.mcgregor@jpl.nasa.gov/guy.webster@jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown  202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington                                   dwayne.c.brown@nasa.gov Sara Hammond  520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond@lpl.arizona.edu NEWS RELEASE: 2008-154 Aug. 4, 2008 NASA Spacecraft Analyzing Martian Soil Data PASADENA, Calif. -- Scientists are analyzing results from soil samples delivered several weeks ago to science instruments on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander to understand the landing site's soil chemistry and mineralogy. Within the last month, two samples have been analyzed by the Wet Chemistry Lab of the spacecraft's Microscopy, Electrochemistry, and Conductivity Analyzer, or MECA, suggesting one of the soil constituents may be perchlorate, a highly oxidizing substance. The Phoenix team has been waiting for complementary results from the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA, which also is capable of detecting perchlorate. TEGA is a series of ovens and analyzers that "sniff" vapors released from substances in a sample. NASA will hold a media teleconference on Tuesday, Aug. 5, at 11 a.m. PDT (2 p.m. EDT), to discuss these recent science activities. Participants will be introduced at the start of the briefing. To participate in the teleconference, reporters should contact Steve Cole at 202-358-0918 for dial-in and passcode information. Confirmation of the presence of perchlorate and supporting data is important prior to scientific peer review and subsequent public announcements. The results from Sunday's TEGA experiment, which analyzed a sample taken directly above the ice layer, found no evidence of this compound. "This is surprising since an earlier TEGA measurement of surface materials was consistent with but not conclusive of the presence of perchlorate," said Peter Smith, Phoenix's principal investigator at the University of Arizona, Tucson. Scientists at the Phoenix Science Operations Center at the University of Arizona are specifically looking at the data from these instruments to provide information on the composition of Martian soil. "We are committed to following a rigorous scientific process. While we have not completed our process on these soil samples, we have very interesting intermediate results," said Smith, "Initial MECA analyses suggested Earth-like soil. Further analysis has revealed un-Earthlike aspects of the soil chemistry." The team also is working to totally exonerate any possibility of the perchlorate readings being influenced by terrestrial sources which may have migrated from the spacecraft, either into samples or into the instrumentation. "When surprising results are found, we want to review and assure our extensive pre-launch contamination control processes covered this potential," said Barry Goldstein, Phoenix project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. Since landing on May 25, Phoenix has been studying Martian soil with MECA's wet chemistry lab, two microscopes and a conductivity probe, TEGA's ovens and two cameras. MECA's robotic wet chemistry lab studies soluble chemicals in the soil by mixing a soil sample with a water-based solution with several reagents brought from Earth. The inner surface of each cell's beaker has 26 sensors that give information about the acidity or alkalinity and concentrations of elements such as chloride or perchlorate. The beaker also can detect concentrations of magnesium, calcium and potassium, which form salts that are soluble in water. With continuing results and the spacecraft in good condition, the mission has been extended through Sept. 30. The original prime mission of three months ends in late August. The mission extension adds five weeks to the 90 days of the prime mission. The Phoenix mission is led by Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., and development partnership at Lockheed Martin in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus in Denmark; the Max Planck Institute in Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For information about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix . -end-Media Teleconference on: Tuesday  5th August @ 11:00 HRS PDT, 14:00 HRS EDT, 19:00 HRS CET (BST) & 20:00 HRS SCET.Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Aviation Week & Space Technology then spaceref.com, just to name a few.http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1297http://www.marstoday.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1297 Your right about the quick NASA denial, that's the professional response everyone is depending on but wasn't that just a response to the 'Whitehouse Briefing"  NASA isn't the ones who are doing most of analyzing it’s the U of A team, they would be responsible for disclaiming any bogus reports due to their findings.   Posted by rlb2</DIV> What have you shown me. Two copies of the AW&ST article (pretty much identical).Both are Ineternet "news" sources, repeating the same story.To me, that's the Interwebz rumor mill. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Here's what it's all about: http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2008/aug/HQ_08199_Phoenix_Results.html Posted by smerral</DIV> If nothin else, it should be a very interesting news conference. I wonder if Craig Covault (sp?) will get the first question?

<div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That is kind of funny. I get credit for something I didn’t do but can’t get credit for things I do. I feel like Rodney Dangerfield here…Actually if what is told in the "Bogus" statement at space.com is true then Aviation Week & Space Technology started it, spaceref.com and marstoday.com picket it up but credited AWST. Spaceref.com is owned by space.com.   Posted by rlb2</DIV> That's not exactly what I meant, I probably wasn't clear enough. I meant here, about 5 pages worth of hysteria were started by you, and I don't really have a problem with that. As you say, we are here to discuss such things. But it was really just one story, virally spreading on the internet.BTW, I don't really consider SDC a great source. The blog about the subject was poor, as many others have been that I have had issues with on different subjects. It's no better or worse than any other internet source. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If nothin else, it should be a very interesting news conference. I wonder if Craig Covault (sp?) will get the first question?

Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Hi Wayne, I think that Craig Covault will be keeping a very low profile or not even phone in, if he has any sense. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/6/5953fd29-d4c0-4650-b69c-f613d89425b2.Medium.gif" alt="" />But yes, it will be a very interesting Teleconference for sure. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi everyone, I've just received this..."This is surprising since an earlier TEGA measurement of surface materials was consistent with but not conclusive of the presence of perchlorate," said Peter Smith, Phoenix's principal investigator at the University of Arizona, Tucson.... Posted by 3488</DIV>Perchlorates are also used in propellant for rocket engines.  Does anyone know if they have ruled out possible contamination from rocket exhaust?  The Aerojet motors are hydrazine but, according to a couple of refs I looked at, various perchlorates have been suggested as being viable additives in such engines.  Or, will we probably have to wait for the conference to ask that question?

<div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

MeteorWayne · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi Wayne, I think that Craig Covault will be keeping a very low profile or not even phone in, if he has any sense. But yes, it will be a very interesting Teleconference for sure. Andrew Brown. Posted by 3488</DIV> Personally, I doubt that. He basically published a story based on "sources" that NASA has hod to come out and say are wrong, untrue, incorrect. Somebody's credibility is getting damaged here. I think it will be very tense. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Perchlorates are also used in propellant for rocket engines.  Does anyone know if they have ruled out possible contamination from rocket exhaust?  The Aerojet motors are hydrazine but, according to a couple of refs I looked at, various perchlorates have been suggested as being viable additives in such engines.  Or, will we probably have to wait for the conference to ask that question?

Posted by a_lost_packet_</DIV>Hi A-L-P.I hope that the scientists would have deducted any known exhaust contamination from the descent thrusters, from the total readings, therefore what is left, must be martian.Mind you, I do not know how difficult that is to do, particularly as the regolith composition in Scandia Colles was not well known in the first instance.I suspect as you say, that we will have to wait for the conference & hopefully someone is switched on enough to ask that very question. It is very important that question is asked as it may focus researchers minds on to looking for that possibilty. I suspect that you are correct. Those descent thruster did give the regolith quite a blast during the final seconds of descent. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Personally, I doubt that. He basically published a story based on "sources" that NASA has hod to come out and say are wrong, untrue, incorrect. Somebody's credibility is getting damaged here. I think it will be very tense. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>I really hope Wayne, that the Phoenix mission will not descend into farce because of this. Who were his 'sources' or did he invent the story himself to gain notoriety? I doubt the latter, but as you say, someone's credibility is being damaged here, possibly destroyed, with the potential consequences that entails. I just wish that those who report or talk with 'sources' would engage brain before engaging their mouth. Mars unfortunately will always be a source for rumour mill antics, due to the remote possibility of life being present on or near the surface (IMO if anywhere it's very deep underground). I really hope that someone sensible such as Emily Lakdawalla & / or Leo Enright phone in, because they'll see this nonsense for what it is for sure. Shame you cannot phone in Wayne, you'll bring some sanity to this 'circus'. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

robnissen · Aug 4, 2008

I posted this in another thread, but it probably is better here:Our own Jon Clarke was extensively quoted here about this issue:http://www.smh.com.au/news/science/have-they-found-poo-on-red-planet/2008/08/04/1217701947632.htmlI don't believe there is a huge conspiracy going on, BUT,  if something major had been found -- major enough that the white house had been briefed, would that briefing be admitted? Of course not.  As soon as the briefing had been admitted, the VERY NEXT question would be:  What was the briefing about?  A no comment would have have ignited a frenzy.  As has been stated numerous times here, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  If life on Mars has been found (past or present), such information would not be released until it was double-checked, triple-checked, etc.Now, I am not a member of the woo-woo crowd.  But my point is, if there was not a white house briefing about life on Mars, of course that briefing would have been denied.  If there was, however, a white house briefing on life on Mars, that briefing would ALSO have been denied, until the evidence was double and triple checked.  To think otherwise, is just to be amazingly naive.

phaze · Aug 4, 2008

I thought this was all started by a question from a reporter that implied he knew something important had been discovered?  Without saying what it was he thought had been found, he then asked if the WH had been notified, etc..  I know there is an audio link to the question and response somewhere around here.Second.... there are a variety of perchlorates, as the ever-informative Wikipedia tells us.  I haven't seen any information about which was found.  Has anyone else?  Couldn't it be that the specific perchlorate found and/or its quantity might actually be very dramatic?  Morever... the weight of any dramatic results (I think) would have to be in the positive direction towards life, rather than against.

rlb2 · Aug 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That's not exactly what I meant, I probably wasn't clear enough. I meant here, about 5 pages worth of hysteria were started by you, and I don't really have a problem with that. </DIV>Yea, how many times did you start such hysterical debates here by simply posting something. I just Posted the article and gave my views about it during the whole time requesting a denial from U of A.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

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